When does the rapture happen? Pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib?

When does the rapture happen? Pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib?

  • Pre-trib

  • Mid-trib

  • Post-trib


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sovereigngrace

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How are we going to return with Christ if we are not first called away in seemly normal times and unlooked for?

We are caught up at the one final future coming of Christ, whereupon the world and the wicked are destroyed by fire, and we return to the new earth.
 
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chad kincham

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Revelation 20:4 and Revelation 7 are not the same scene.

Revelation 7 contains martyrs starting with Abel to Stephen. The great tribulation was from Stephen until the 6th Seal. The AC did not kill Abel. Cain killed Abel. The AC did not stone Stephen. The Jewish Sanhedrin did. Acts 6:12-15

12 And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council,
13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:
14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.
15 And all that sat in the council, looking stedfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel.

Satan's 42 months is not even the time of unprecedented tribulation:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The length of time shortened is the time of the Trumpets and Thunders.

Satan gets 42 months per Revelation 13. John does not say what that time is like in any verse. That time is a solid 42 months if 1 second. It is not shortened. Since John does not state if that time is bad or good, we cannot assume at all what it will be like. Satan is in charge, not God. The only time of unprecedented tribulation that is left is the time of the Trumpets and Thunders. Those judgments come from God and are unprecedented. They happen before Satan, the FP, and beast set up rule in Jerusalem. This time is when the Lamb and angels are removing souls out of their bodies and sending them to life or damnation. The sheep separated from the goats. The tares separated from the wheat. All prior to the 7th Trumpet. No one is martyred. All these souls are harvested like Jesus taught in His parables.

In Satan's 42 months people are beheaded to avoid the mark. The mark is given at the point one's name is removed from the Lamb's book of life. Revelation 13:8

8 Everyone living on earth will worship it except those whose names are written in the Book of Life belonging to the Lamb slaughtered before the world was founded.

Revelation 14:9-11
“If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives the mark on his forehead or on his hand, he will indeed drink the wine of God’s fury poured undiluted into the cup of his rage. He will be tormented by fire and sulfur before the holy angels and before the Lamb, and the smoke from their tormenting goes up forever and ever. They have no rest, day or night, those who worship the beast and its image and those who receive the mark of its name.”

During Satan's 42 months there are 2 options:

Recieve the mark. Chop your head off to avoid the mark. The verses above show the results of taking the mark. Revelation 20:4 shows many chose wisely.

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for testifying about Yeshua and proclaiming the Word of God, also those who had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received the mark on their foreheads and on their hands. They came to life and ruled with the Messiah for a thousand years."

Yes many are beheaded during Satan's 42 months. They live on earth.

Those in Revelation 7 are in Paradise the temple of God. That is the entire church including many martyrs from Abel to now.

Just as I said, John saw a great crowd of those who were martyred by the Antichrist for refusing the mark during the great tribulation, in Revelation 7.

A great crowd of Christians go through the great tribulation.
 
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ewq1938

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Just as I said, John saw a great crowd of those who were martyred by the Antichrist for refusing the mark during the great tribulation, in Revelation 7.

A great crowd of Christians go through the great tribulation.

I agree that Christian do through the Great Tribulation but Revelation 7 doesn't say anything about the AC, or the mark of if these people were murdered/martyred. Usually that group is considered to be all of the saved, not only those from the last period of tribulation.
 
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Navair2

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That's not a valid option because Paul uses the Greek word for rapture, harpazo. The only thing left is to decide when it happens.
What do Matthew 24 and Mark 13 tell us?
 
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ewq1938

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What do Matthew 24 and Mark 13 tell us?

The gathering of the saints is post-trib.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
 
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Timtofly

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As a thief in the night - to unbelieving Jews who did not know what is happening to them until it was too late.
"Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

Perhaps for Jews. More so for the church. One talks about being clothed and not physical clothes. The other talks about works being burned up that deal with the flesh and not the things of God that are eternal.

Only the church can be spiritually prepared. Only the church can do works of the Holy Spirit. No one outside of the church would even have a clue about what is even being referenced. Will there be many who are a part of the church and do not even know it?
 
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Timtofly

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Just as I said, John saw a great crowd of those who were martyred by the Antichrist for refusing the mark during the great tribulation, in Revelation 7.

A great crowd of Christians go through the great tribulation.
None of those martyred in Revelation 7 were killed by the AC. None of those in Revelation 7 were even on earth when a mark is appearing on those whose names are removed from the Lamb's book of life. Revelation 7 is years before an AC shows up.
 
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BABerean2

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The Second Coming happens before the Trumpets.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


.
 
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trophy33

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Well, we surely do not have all writings of those times, only the ones preserved by the roman catholic church (or by the orthodox church in the Byzantium).

I agree with you, that in the writings these traditional churches are giving us, is not much about it there.

But Bible should be our main source, no?
 
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Berean Tim

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Well, we surely do not have all writings of those times, only the ones preserved by the roman catholic church (or by the orthodox church in the Byzantium).

I agree with you, that in the writings these traditional churches are giving us, is not much about it there.

But Bible should be our main source, no?
The guys I'm talking about were not Catholic or Greek Orthodox, it was well before them. the Bible doesn't teach He HAS returned, only He will. the Bible also clear there will be no mistaking it. "...all will see him"
You don't believe in a Catholic conspiracy keeping the return of Christ from us, do you ?
 
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trophy33

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The guys I'm talking about were not Catholic or Greek Orthodox, it was well before them. the Bible doesn't teach He HAS returned, only He will. the Bible also clear there will be no mistaking it. "...all will see him"
You don't believe in a Catholic conspiracy keeping the return of Christ from us, do you ?
Never heard of such conspiracy. But the filter of which writings were copied and preserved is clear - the ones corresponding with the teachings of the official church.
 
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