When Do the 2,520 Days of the Tribulation Take Place?

[TishaBAv]

There will be many martyred Christians during the Tribulation (Rev. 20.4). Thus God can't tell us we will all survive through the Tribulation on the basis of keeping the word of His patience. In fact, those who are more spiritual would more likely be martyred as the original disciples were who were deeply consecrated in Christ.

That is not to say sometimes God doesn't protect a Daniel, but that is not the situation here since the focus is the timing of rapture. Nor is the situation the same as protecting a nation such as Israel as Israel will be overrun during the Great Tribulation. And Noah was not in the flood (Great Tribulation), but was taken up before the flood akin to the first rapture that is according to readiness (Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36).

Satan is unable to get the manchild overcomers who will receive the reward of reigning with Christ for 1000 years because they are first raptured "before the throne" before the Tribulation commences, so he goes after Israel instead. The woman is God's eternal will (seeking overcomers who are given the covenant beforehand because Israel forsook it) who then becomes Israel fleeing in the wilderness and protected, since the final seven is a return to God's promise to Israel to be the center of all nations from where Jesus will reign. When He returned and the Holy Spirit set down like the dove, this is like the millennial kingdom beginning returning with Jesus.

You have no hope of being first raptured since you have excluded yourself from it, so if you are saved you will have to pass through the time of testing and lose the reward of the 5 wise virgins of reigning in the marriage feast for 1000 years. Somtimes a person is not saved and that's why they reject this; other times it is because they are fleshly Christian and thus will go to "outer darkness" outside the light of reward of reigning with Christ for 1000 years.

The hope of the Church is not to enter the wrath period of the bowls that last 24 months or even any part of the 7 year Tribulation.

 

[Manasseh_]

Just as all the sets of seven of Daniel's prophecy were seven years each (7 x 360), so too will by the final seven. You can count on that.

well, what you can't count on is the misunderstanding , misinterpretation of Daniel chapter 9 , and I see you've been duped by the same false teaching......................the chapter is a prophecy of Messiah's first coming and how he was CUT OFF in the MIDST OF THE WEEK......................you don't take that prophecy then add a few thousand years to it then add an additional 7 years to that and come up with a 7 year tribulation.........the prophecy was given to Daniel as the "seventy weeks" of years ......490 total........................not 70 weeks plus 2000 some years then plus 7 more years of tribulation

According to the Tetrads the first rapture according to readiness is Sept. 14, 2015 on Feast of Trumpets. The midpoint of the 7 years is Feb. 25, 2019 (start of the 5th trumpet or 1st woe). The 2nd woe starts July 25, 2019. And the 3rd woe or 7th trumpet begins Aug. 18, 2020, leaving 24 months of gleanings to Aug. 7, 2022 Tisha B'Av when Jesus steps down.

God has kept certain knowledge about a specific event to himself and explicitly states such in scripture..........and yet certain people will defy this and proceed to set their own dates anyway, this is not humbleness to God, a servant who defies the depth and wisdom of God to keep certain things to himself is no servant at all but rather a defiant spirit who says in effect if God will not reveal this date then I will proceed to make my own regardless............

your dates will fail as do all false prophecies

 

[Manasseh_]

That is not to say sometimes God doesn't protect a Daniel, but that is not the situation here since the focus is the timing of rapture.


You have no hope of being first raptured since you have excluded yourself from it, so if you are saved you will have to pass through the time of testing and lose the reward of the 5 wise virgins of reigning in the marriage feast for 1000 years. Somtimes a person is not saved and that's why they reject this; other times it is because they are fleshly Christian and thus will go to "outer darkness" outside the light of reward of reigning with Christ for 1000 years.

and I gave you "FOCUS" of the timing of the gathering according to Christ himself............but you have rejected his direct teachings for another teaching , one that is in contradiction to what he taught............a teaching against Christ.........

Luk 11:23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth. <<< Greek for scatter (skorpizo) to put to flight to waste, to dissipate...................which is what you have attempted to do with his teachings , to scatter his teachings to the wind, making them of none effect because you would rather believe this lie of pretrib than to listen to and believe his words..........AFTER TRIBULATION ON THE LAST DAY......................

and I have no hope in false doctrines that teach AGAINST what Christ himself taught of his second coming, he made no promises to come in 2 phases, he made no promises to take his elect from the earth before the appointed day (LAST DAY)

it's obvious you have no regard for the very words of Christ himself...........you are against his words / teachings................

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

 

[TishaBAv]

Daniel doesn't say anything about Jesus being cut off in the midst of 7 years, but "after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off" (9.26). What follows is "the people of the prince [Antichrist] that shall come shall destroy the city" (v.26) in 70 AD. Not till verse 27 do we hear about the final seven. "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" (v.27). When did Jesus confirm a covenant for 7 years? Since Israel will build the 3rd Temple soon and commence sacrifices again that would not agree with your theory, so what is being said here is that the Antichrist will confirm a peace treaty for 7 years then breaks it and ends the sacrifices in the middle. Perhaps this appeases the world because the world rejects Israel.

"...and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate" (v.27). Jesus doesn't erect an abomination of desolation (Matt. 24.15). That's what the False Prophet does for the Antichrist. Jesus doesn't make Israel desolate. That's what the Devil does. Hence, the book of Revelation, a book of end-times, mentions 1260 days several times, for it is in the 2nd half of the 7 year Tribulation that these things happen.

My prayer is you will give these dates more consideration when you see events leading up to them. For example, if by 2015 (perhaps as early as 2013) you see Israel tear down the Dome on the Rock and start construction on the 3rd Temple this will cause you to think twice. Also, reconsider the very rare earthquakes we have had, followed by the amazing unique solar eclipse in 2013, the Tetrads on such key dates in the 20th century pointing to 2014/15 and won't happen again till 2582/83. The 120th Jubilee from 4004 BC is 2015. Amazing! That's 6000 years. 6000 year-days x 24 hours a day = 144,000. 144,000 is the pinnacle number reached in Rev. 7.1-8 and 14.1-5.

You used the word "phases". But I would say there are more than two. There was Enoch and Elijah who were raptured. Jesus was taken up. The first rapture "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) according to readiness (Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10) takes place before the Tribulation starts at the first trumpet (8.7ff). Then you hae the Two Witnesses Enoch and Elijah who will die and then be resurrected and raptured 3.5 days after they go to rest as will be the case for all martyrs in Christ during the Tribulation. Then there is the general rapture and resurrection at the last trumpet (1 Thess. 4.15-17) that occurs at the start of the 7th trumpet or 3rd woe (Rev. 11.15, 14.14-16, 15.2-4) on Aug. 18, 2020. During the remaining 24 months of the 7 bowls of wrath there would be gleaning raptures also. Then Jesus steps down on the mount of olives on Aug. 7, 2022 on a Sunday, Tisha B'Av. He returns with 10,000 saints or overcomer believers (Jude 14,15).

His parousia commences with the first rapture when He meets the saints before the throne. Then He comes down on the cloud, through the cloud, to meet the saints in the air at the last trumpet. Then He returns with out of them the overcomers on the 2,520 day.

Praise the Lord! Amen.

 

[Truth Files]

Tish said:

"The 144,00 (Rev. 14.1-5) are not Israel"

>Really?

>That is exactly the way these 144000 are described in Revelation 7 .... "the children of Israel" .... you say this is a "lie"

>I also noted that you appeared to embrace the corporate "manchild" theology of the MSOG movements in one of your postings [most of this thinking is of those who are replacement theologists who consider themselves to be "Israel"]

>There are a number denominational persuasions that insert their following into Revelation's account of the 144,000 and also replace the Lord with the same [Revelation 12:5] .... the main ones are the various charismatic MSOG movements [like William Branham of the past and numerous others of today like Paul Cain, Peter Wagner, Mike Bickel, etc. .... the list is long] and the JWs

I see that you understand the 70 weeks of years and the future 70th decreed for Israel correctly, but to say that the 144000 are not sealed believing ethnic Israelites seems contrary to Israel's experience in the tribulation period

>I also note that you rely upon the Jewish feasts, etc. for interpreting prophetic time line [George Warnock would be an example of this teaching] .... is the Lord honoring these time scheduled events today since Israel has rejected Him as Messiah and King? [I know that these will be re-instituted for the Lord's coming millennial kingdom on the earth, but doubt that such should be used to interpret Bible prophecy and any related date setting as some do]

>Might I ask what teacher and or particular movement, denomination, etc. you follow?

 

[TishaBAv]

The 144,000 in Rev. 7.1-8 are a remnant of Israel. The 144,000 in Rev. 14.1-5 are not a remnant of Israel, but firstfruit virgin Christians (v.4). God has three groups in view: remnant Israel, Christians, and the nations. God will not break His promise to Israel to be the center of all nations, yet any Jewish person in Israel to be saved still must believe in the Lord, for the true Jew is a Christian. Abraham or Isaac or Jacob if they were alive today would be a Christian, accepting the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah.

Who are the 144,000? The 144,000 cited in Revelation 7.4 and 144,000 spoken of here in 14.1 are two different classes of people, contrasted as follows:

(1) The people of 7.4 are the chosen among the children of Israel, while those of 14.1 are purchased from among men.
(2) The seals received by them are not the same. The one spoken of in 7.2 is &#8220;the seal of the living God&#8221;, which is Old Testament terminology. The seal alluded to in 14.1 bears the name of the Lamb and the name of the Father, and such names are related to the church. Hence these people must come from the church.
(3) The people told about in 7.3 are called &#8220;the servants of our God&#8221;, but those in view in 14.1 are the children of God (this conclusion is deduced from the name of the Father).
(4) Throughout the entire book of Revelation the Lord calls God as Father each time. And He always says it in connection with the church (1.6, 2.27, 3.5, 3.21). The Lord never uses it in connection with Israel.
(5) The people spoken of in 14.1ff. are associated with the Lamb (standing with the Lamb, having the name of the Lamb, following the Lamb, and being the first fruits unto the Lamb). In chapter 7 the Lord is seen as another angel; and this, as we have seen, is a returning to His Old Testament position.
(6) The song they sing is described in 14.3 as a new song, whereas the song the people mentioned in 7.4 sing is but an old song.
(7) The people in view in 14.4 are virgins, but with Israel virginity is to be bewailed. (According to Ex. 23.26, Deut. 7.14, 1 Sam. 2.5, and Ps. 113.9, to bear children is considered a blessing while to be barren is deemed a curse. In Judges 11.38,39 the daughter of Jephthah is said to have bewailed her virginity for two months.)
(8) The articles preceding both of the 144,000 numbers cited in 14.1 and 7.4 are indefinite, and are therefore general and not specific. Thus these 144,000 numbers constitute two different classes.

14.1 The group of 144,000 here is a special class of people in the church; they are not all the people of the church. And the reasons for this conclusion are as follows:

(1) Since the 144,000 figure in 7.4 is taken literally, the number here should also be reckoned as literal.
(2) This group being the first fruits (14.4), it cannot be said that the entire church makes up the first fruits.
(3) There is no such fact that the people in the entire church keep their virginity.
(4) Prior to the arrival of the Great Tribulation (for it is before the voices of the three angels are heard, 14.6-11), these people are already raptured to Mount Zion.
(5) 14.5 tells of the exceptional features of these people, concerning which it cannot be said that all the born-again ones possess such characteristics.

Consequently, the 144,000 standing on Mount Zion are the best of the overcomers of the church; that is to say, this group of 144,000 is representative of the totality of the overcomers.

Who is this man child? (Rev. 12.5) He must be the overcomers: for example, (1) some Christians in the church in Smyrna, since &#8220;Be thou faithful unto death&#8221; (2.10) coincides with the last clause in 12.11&#8212;&#8220;they loved not their life even unto death&#8221;; (2) some Christians in the church in Thyatira, for &#8220;he shall rule them with a rod of iron&#8221; (2.26,27) agrees with &#8220;a man child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron&#8221; (12.5); (3) some Christians in the church in Philadelphia, because they are kept out of &#8220;the hour of trial&#8221; (3.10) just as the man child is &#8220;caught up unto God&#8221; (12.5); and (4) some Christians in the church in Laodicea, since they will &#8220;sit&#8221; on the &#8220;throne&#8221; (3.21) just as the man child &#8220;is to rule all the nations&#8221; (12.5).

Some others advocate the interpretation of Christ being the man child, but this is also inapplicable for the following reasons:

(1) The woman represents Jerusalem, while the Lord Jesus is born in Bethlehem.
(2) This man child is not personal but corporate in character (12.10-11).
(3) Should this man child be Christ, the dragon will then be Herod, yet 12.9 states explicitly that the dragon is Satan himself.
(4) As soon as the man child is born, he is caught up to the throne, whereas the Lord Jesus is taken up to heaven only after He has lived over thirty years, died, and been raised from the dead.
(5) Because all this is a vision, the word &#8220;travail&#8221; cannot be interpreted literally.

Still others say that the man child denotes the whole church. This too is impossible since (1) the whole church is not all raptured at the same time: some will go in advance of others and some will follow afterwards, but here the man child is caught up as a unit simultaneously; (2) to rule all the nations with an iron rod is not a promise given to the entire church, rather is it promised to the overcomers only (2.26-27), and not all in the church are overcomers; and (3) to reign is promised to those who suffer and endure with the Lord today (2 Tim. 2.12).

 

[Truth Files]

"The 144,000 in Rev. 7.1-8 are a remnant of Israel. The 144,000 in Rev. 14.1-5 are not a remnant of Israel"

>Can't buy this at all .... both accounts are about the same 144000

>The reference to "those not defiled by women" contrasts the 144000 with their Israelite ancestry who were .... these led Israel into idolatry .... like Solomon

>You did not answer my question regarding your following, but now I see it by your posting above

>Obviously one of the MSOG movements has influenced you .... and there are some others who carry a portion of the same like Arnold Murray and David Eells

 

[TishaBAv]

I am glad you were unable to overturn any of my points specifically. Virgins is not appropriate to describe Israel. Sorry I don't know what MSOG is or any of those people you mentioned. I just read the Bible and Christ is my teacher by the word of God the sword of the Spirit. The Bible says don't say "I of Cephas" or "I of Apollos" so your question is a false one asking what denomination, since the Bible is against denominations. My prayers go out to you.

 

[Truth Files]

"Sorry I don't know what MSOG is or any of those people you mentioned"

>I think you do .... I know where what you are suggesting is coming from .... the sources

>But if not, I would suggest that you search the MSOG movements on the Internet regarding the things that you are teaching, and you will find the same

>These movements should be suspect of their teachings and I do not recommend that any should follow them .... there is much published revealing the behavior and spreading of falsehoods by the leaders of these followings

 

[TishaBAv]

I don't know what MSOG is at all. Never heard of it. No need to either.

"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him" (1 John 2.27).

Since you can't overturn any of my points realize you have some false beliefs so repent.

 

[TishaBAv]

"Before the Throne of God" in 3rd Heaven​

14.4 Twice we find the words “these are”, thus showing that the verse describes and explains who the 144,000 are:

(1) “These are they that were not defiled with women; for they are virgins”-We may not spiritualize the word “women” into “idols”, for the Bible does not support such an interpretation. Neither can we consider “women” as representing evil doctrines. Instead, “women” in the Bible is frequently translated “wives”; for example, the Greek word used for “wives” in Acts 21.5 is the same as used for “women” here in 14.4. The Scriptures not only mention this group of 144,000 as being undefiled with women but they also emphasize that they are virgins. This thus indicates that this portion of Scripture is not speaking of purity but of virginity. With this conclusion Matthew 19.10-12 agrees perfectly. Judging by 14.1 here, those whom God has given such a gift amount to only 144,000 (cf. Luke 20.35, 1 Cor. 7.7). At the time of Antichrist there will be one particular error: he will forbid marrying (1 Tim. 4.1-3). The book of Daniel hints at this also by saying that the future Antichrist will not be married (“Neither shall he regard . . . the desire of women”, 11.37). It is absolutely impossible that there will be only 144,000 Christians who neither worship idols nor follow evil doctrines. Since 14.4 is an explanation, it must mean simply what it clearly says and therefore needs no interpretation.

(2) “These are they that follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth”-This verse does not speak of the past, it instead points to the present and the future. They are closest to the Lord, serving Him as His bodyguard.

(3) “These were purchased from among men, to be the first-fruits unto God and unto the Lamb”-They are men, yet they are purchased from among men. In Leviticus we are told that there are three different stages in reaping: the first fruits (23.17), the harvest (23.22), and the gleaning (23.22). The farmer reaps when the wheat is ripened. He gathers into the garner what he cuts: he does not leave the wheat in the field. Thus, the time of rapture is in a sense decided by men and not by God. The reaping comes after ripening. The first fruits are Christians who mature first, hence are taken first.

14.5 The words of their mouths reveal what is in their hearts. These are the same descriptions concerning our Lord, but they are now applied also to the 144,000.

It should be pointed out, in conclusion, that this portion of Scripture does not exclude women from among the 144,000. It must be remembered that the Bible usually numbers only the men. For example, although a great number of women came out of Egypt and ate manna in the wilderness, God only counted the men but not the women. Moreover, though Dinah was Jacob’s daughter, the nation of Israel had only twelve tribes. Yet neither does this portion of the Bible mean that there are only this number of people among the first group raptured. It simply demonstrates that there will be people such as these in the first group.

 

[Truth Files]

MSOG is the acronym for Manifestation of the Son's of God [a foundational belief based upon a perverted interpretation of Revelation 12]

Much of what I see you posting comes from the teaching of the same .... or a variant

Do some research and then come back and explain this .... and also reflect upon the history and present day behavior of those who lead the followings

Three that I could suggest: William Branham, Peter Wagner, David Eells

 

[TishaBAv]

Sorry I have no knowledge of those people or that group or if they agree with me. I just read the Bible.

There are thousands of cults and you are in yet another one of them. Cult members tend to shut their minds down when confronted.

What matters here in this thread is you could not overturn any of my points. I think you are avoiding dealing with these points.

The deeper spiritual Christians I know all believe in partial rapture.

 

[Truth Files]

Just as I thought

Now you have revealed yourself to me

You are in fact teaching MSOG theology and you want to hide your affiliation

I have no problem with you doing what you are doing, but you should be willing to admit it and take your stand

 

[TishaBAv]

That's nice. You have revealed yourself to me too. You're still shutting your mind down avoiding the points.

 

[TishaBAv]

You would need to define what this MSOG theology is in your own words, because I don't know what it is, nor have you said what it is, for me to be able to agree or disagree with it. Why be coy?

Why are you avoiding dealing with the points in this thread? The Bible says "prove all things". You sound like you are in a cult and that's why you shut your mind down.

 

[Truth Files]

I avoid nothing ..... and believe me I can put down MSOG teaching in a way that would bury your position .... I have been doing it for years with the objective of helping others out of the trapping

And you can find all that is known about the aberrant teachings of the movements on the internet .... there is no need to post them on this forum unless some asks with the right attitude

And I have to say to you that I think you already know

But there is no good reason to waste the time now that I have a reading on where your are coming from .... I was just curious

Just keep posting your stuff

 

[TishaBAv]

Well I am glad you only claim you can do these many things but are unable to do so here. Let me know what this MSOG stuff is if you want to have a conversation. I've never met anyone as coy as you. I think that is unethical. Christians are to "prove all things" and edify one another with the truth. Ye shall know them by their fruits. My prayers go out to you for you know not what you do.

 

[Truth Files]

I also see as I review your postings that you incorporate some of the vestiges of Calvinism

Interesting .... a mixing of MSOG and predestination

I have noticed a trend as of late on the Internet message boards where people are concocting a mixed bag of various theologies

For example, there is one on this forum who mixes MSOG, British/Israelism, and Serpent Seed teachings

This kind of confusion is hyper-aberrant and disturbing

 

[TishaBAv]

I am against all 5 points of Calvinism. Yes God predestinates by foreknowing our free choice: a conditional election, unlimited atonement, resistible grace, for preservation of the saints.

Have you noticed you are babbling, all the while avoiding the points in this thread and going off on a tangent? That's selfish you know.

And you keep talking about this MSOG stuff when I don't even say what it is. Have some courtesy and define your terms. Serpent/seed teaching? British/Israel? Blah blah blah. I have no idea what you are talking about. Define your terms and your accusations.

You're acting very cultic.