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Featured When did Jesus die and come back to life?

Discussion in 'Christian History' started by ChristianForCats, Apr 12, 2019.

  1. Calminian

    Calminian Senior Veteran

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    The analogy Jesus offered tells us that whatever the "heart of the earth" metaphor means, it lasted 3 days and 3 nights. Jesus was under the authority of earthly men for exactly 3 days and 3 nights, starting Thursday night with Sunday being the third day. That works perfectly with the analogy.

    And not to get sidetracked, but the creature could have been a whale. The word for fish there is very generic. Our nomenclature is different today from then. Many swimming animals could have fallen under this particular Hebrew word.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  2. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    Some other day we can discuss Hebrew meanings for words that confuse a lot of people. Jesus said it was a fish, so I am going with that.

    My question was specifically about Jesus being dead for three days and three nights.
     
  3. Calminian

    Calminian Senior Veteran

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    Actually, no he didn't. Fish is an english translation in some Bibles. Jesus used the word ketos in the Greek (not Hebrew). Many Bibles render it whale.

    Matt. 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (KJV)

    Matt. 12:40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (WEB)

    Matt. 12:40 For as Jonas was in the whale’s belly three days and three nights: so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. (DOUAY)​

    NASB translates it Sea Monster.

    Matt. 12:40 for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.​

    The Christian Standard Bible translates it fish with a footnote saying "or sea creature."

    According to Mounce's Greek Dictionary: ketos - a large fish, sea monster, whale, Mt. 12:40*

    I realize this stuff isn't easy, but that's all the more reason not to be dogmatic.
     
  4. Calminian

    Calminian Senior Veteran

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    I do believe this has been thoroughly answered. Scripture does not say Jesus was "dead" 3 days and 3 nights. There were many words and idioms available at the time if this is what the writers wanted to convey. "under the earth" was a very popular idiom that refers to death and burial, but wasn't used. Heart of the earth was used.
     
  5. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    So I guess it comes down to the meaning of "heart of the earth" in Matthew 12:40.
     
  6. Calminian

    Calminian Senior Veteran

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    Indeed. I'm not going to claim infallibility on this point, but I do think this phrase should be the focus of more research and more discussions.
     
  7. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I am Eastern Orthodox. We still start the day at sundown.
    As I have already pointed out, that does not jive with Jesus' statement that He would destroy the temple (His body crucified) and rebuild it in 3 days (His resurrection)
     
  8. Calminian

    Calminian Senior Veteran

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    It actually does. Jesus did not use the term "nights" in that statement. Days are defined in Genesis 1:5 as the day portion of the day. Jesus was crucified during the day Friday and laid in the tomb that same day. He remained the second day Saturday, and was raised early Sunday. Three days all accounted for.

    The only reason the heart of the earth statement is different is because it includes the term nights, which has a distinct meaning and is given a number. Thursday night is when Jesus was taken into custody, so that is when he entered in the belly of the beast so to speak.

    But when it comes to days, Thursday night is not included as it is not day, it is night.

    Here is a chart of Jesus body destroyed and rebuilt from the Jewish perspective of days.

    [​IMG]

    No problem at all accounting for 3 days.

    Here is a chart for the 3 days and nights Jesus was in the heart of the earth from the Jewish perspective.

    [​IMG]

    Also, no problem.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  9. CGL1023

    CGL1023 citizen of heaven

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    I should have said "ignore my entry" as I made a typo.
     
  10. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    You can just correct the typo like I always do.
     
  11. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist

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    they started destroying him at evening the sixth day rested on the seventh day and rebuilt at the resurrection on First day of the week that is 3 days
     
  12. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist

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    they started destroying him at evening the sixth day rested on the seventh day and rebuilt at the resurrection on First day of the week that is 3 days
     
  13. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    OHC, dod upi ever think they were not allowed to do anything ON the Sabbath? To do no work during that time, they must have destroyed him between Sabbaths - which is the afternoon, not evening, of the sixth day.
     
  14. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    In case you have not noticed, I am a literal thinker.If anything Jesus said was not intended t o be read as written, I cannot comprehend it without some help from more knowledgable Bible readers.
     
  15. Calminian

    Calminian Senior Veteran

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    It's the right approach, from the book of Genesis to the book of Revelation. It's the natural way to approach any narrative. Always consider something literal unless the speaker or author indicates otherwise.

    This is why I believe Jesus' statement about 3 days and nights is literal. I believe it included his incarceration the night before the crucifixion because I take this statement literally.

    Luke 24:7 ‘The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’ ” (emphasis mine)​

    You'll notice that statements regarding the third day always include Jesus' incarceration.
    • “suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law,“ crucified, resurrected third day (Matt. 16:21)
    • “delivered into the hands of men,” crucified, resurrected third day (Matt. 17:22)
    • “delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law,” crucified, resurrected third day (Matt. 20:18-19, Mark 10:33-34)
    • “suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law,” crucified, resurrected third day (Luke 9:21-22)
    • “delivered over to the Gentiles,” crucified, resurrected third day (Luke 18:32-33)
    • “delivered over to the hands of sinners,” crucified, resurrected third day (Luke 24:7).
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  16. Unnamed Guy

    Unnamed Guy Member

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    Some people speak of this or that figure of speech. Figures of speech are not hidden: you can always spot one because it is not literally possible. So if you want to claim "idiom" you have to show that "three days and three nights" was not literally possible. "Three days and three nights" equals 72 hours and if you claim any figure of speech you have to show that that is not literally possible.
     
  17. Calminian

    Calminian Senior Veteran

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    You were doing great until you added to the Text. 72 hours is never mentioned in Scripture. 3 days and 3 nights is literal, but need not be 72 hours. In fact according to the testimony of Cleopas, the third day was partial and still passing.

    From Young's Literal Translation, Luke 24:21: "...this third day is passing to-day, since these things happened." This completely closes to the door on 72 hours. If Sunday is the third day, and was still passing, 72 hours is impossible.

    You've also assumed "heart of the earth" means grave. The errors abound.
     
  18. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    Let me try to get this straight:

    Jesus was "about thirty" when he began his ministry, right?

    Assuming he was born in 5 BC because King Herod died the next year, he was 30 in 26 AD - the year that Pontius Pilate became governor of Rome and Judea. Three and a half years later was 30 AD. So there is a common belief Jesus died in 30. The problem with this is geological and astronical studies have shown the natural Biblical events happened in 33, not 30. So 33 is the most common year Bible scholars support. So did Jesus really die at age 36, which would put the beginning of his ministry closer to 32-33?
     
  19. Unnamed Guy

    Unnamed Guy Member

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    Jesus's ministry lasted one year. Dates are not certain.
    jesus ministry 1 year - Google Search
     
  20. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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