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Featured When did Jesus die and come back to life?

Discussion in 'Christian History' started by ChristianForCats, Apr 12, 2019.

  1. Unnamed Guy

    Unnamed Guy Member

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    Read the link.
     
  2. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Made no difference.
     
  3. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    Is one year specifically meantioned iin the Synoptic Gospels?
     
  4. Calminian

    Calminian Senior Veteran

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    Yes, right next to the verse that says 72 hours. :rolleyes:
     
  5. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    Like someone noted earlier, no verse specifies Jesus was dead 72 hours.
     
  6. Calminian

    Calminian Senior Veteran

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    I don't think you picked up on the sarc.
     
  7. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    As somebody wiht Asperger's syndrome, I wish sarcasm did not exist.
     
  8. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    I think Jesus had the Passover meal with the Apostles early, we do know that Jesus died the day before the Passover. Perhaps having Passover as early as Wednesday, I'm not entirely sure, but this never really created an issue for me.
     
  9. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    The Last Supper was the same food Jews eat at seder, right? I actually never thought about that meal not being on Passover night.
     
  10. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    There are basically three options we have:

    1) It was a lie to say "three days and three nights".
    2) It was a lie to say Jesus rose on the third day.
    3) Neither are lies, because when Jesus speaks of His being in the belly of the earth, He doesn't mean three full 24 hour periods.

    Christians have, for two thousand years now, gone with the third option.

    -CryptoLUtheran
     
  11. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    One thing I find annoying is how people keep saying "2000 years" about stuff that occured in the 20s and 30s. There was no such thing as Christianity before when. 33 AD?
     
  12. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    That's your Asperger's kicking in again :).

    It's another use of synecdoche where the whole (1000 years) refers to the part (slightly less than 1000 years). It is an extremely common figure of speech.
     
  13. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    Thanks Prod
     
  14. Calminian

    Calminian Senior Veteran

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    There's actually a better 4th option. When Jesus speaks of being in the "heart of the earth" he was not speaking about the grave.

    That reconciles everything, from the Friday crucifixion, Sunday morning resurrection and literal 3 days and 3 nights.

    an in-depth article: What did Jesus mean by 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth?

    You are right Jesus was not speaking about 3 24 hour periods, but we need at least 3 partial nights for his statement to be true (which it is). He said specifically he'd be 3 nights in the heart of the earth. And he was, once you understand what heart of the earth means. Had he wanted to limit the meaning of this phrase to his death, he would have used the metaphor "under the earth." He instead said "heart of the earth" which to the ancient reader meant heart of the land. We would do well as apologists to take a closer look at this phrase.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  15. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    Bukt Jesus was not buried under the Earth.
     
  16. Calminian

    Calminian Senior Veteran

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    Doesn't matter that's the metaphor for the dead common in the Old and New testaments.

    Also, earth means land. "and God called the dry land earth." (Gen. 1:5)

    "Heart of the land" is how the ancient readers would have understood it. It would have been similar to today's expression heartland, which no one, today, takes as a reference to death or burial. That's what the metaphor would have been based on. Jesus said he'd be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the land where men dwell and rule. Seems to be a reference to their dominion and authority. But can't be a reference to the gave. That would make no sense at all.
     
  17. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Sorry, but this sounds like a complete stretch to me. Perhaps if you had examples of "heart of the earth" in other Hebrew literature which linked the expression to "authorities", but for now it looks like you've pulled it out of thin air.
     
  18. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    Do you have your own Hebrew literature to disprove Calminian's comments?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  19. Calminian

    Calminian Senior Veteran

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    Here's one.

    Deut. 11:3 the signs he performed and the things he did in the heart of Egypt, both to Pharaoh king of Egypt and to his whole country; 4 what he did to the Egyptian army, to its horses and chariots, how he overwhelmed them with the waters of the Red Sea as they were pursuing you, and how the LORD brought lasting ruin on them.​

    Earth in the Bible is the same word for all the lands and particular lands like Israel or Egypt. The above passage speaks of what God did in the heart of the land of Egypt, specifically to the rulers and authorities of Egypt. Literally it refers to the heartland of Egypt, metaphorically it refers to the authorities of Egypt.

    And as CFC challenged above, what are some arguments you can make for heart of the earth meaning the realm of the dead?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  20. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Since you went to the effort of checking your concordance for the "land", "earth" equivalence, I'm surprised you did not do the same for "heart". You will not in fact find any verse in the Old Testament that says what you are claiming. And even if it did as you claim, you have still had to make a huge contextual leap from the above verse speaking of a nation of people, to have it somehow refer to the land they occupy, so you can they claim the reversal of the same for your novel interpretation of "heart of the earth" meaning under the Jews' authority.
    You need look no further than the Book of Jonah, since that is the sign Jesus pointed them back to.

    Then Jonah prayed to the Lord his God from the belly of the fish, saying,

    “I called to the Lord, out of my distress,
    and he answered me;
    out of the belly of Sheol I cried,
    and thou didst hear my voice.
    For thou didst cast me into the deep,
    into the heart of the seas,
    and the flood was round about me;
    all thy waves and thy billows
    passed over me.​
     
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