When America no longer OWNS America

[LogicChristian]

They are on small scale compared to our Permanent War Economy, getting foreign nations to invest, and our proven habit of using either forced or poverty stricken labor to make our products.

War is what brought the US out of the Great Depression, and it is what has kept the US economically driven. Do you think it's just an accident we are ALWAYS at War with someone somewhere?

The US had a permanent war economy? I don't know what you'd call North Korea or Japan then. The US never even got to, much less surpassed, military spending as even 10% of GDP. In fact, its comparatively rare for the US defense budget to raise above 5% of GDP, which is in line with Western nations. Right now, our defense budget isn't even at 4% of GDP.

North Korea or the former USSR where the nation was spending over 1/3 of its GDP on defense is a war economy, not the USA.

 

[sethad]

I think America is too dependent on other countries. If trade went down...would we actually be able to manufacture our own clothes and produce our own food and make it enough for everyone in America? I really doubt it.

If trade relations go out, we'd all be nekkid and starving and no doubt, whining for the president to do something about it or for other countries to do something about it.

 

[Dracil]

The only people that are similar to "flat worlders" are your very own, home-grown Creationists.

 

[Donkeytron]

Do you know how many armed conflicts the US has been in between WWII and currently? Do you know how many War machines have been sold to other countries?

Forced labor comes into the equation through corporations like Nike, Walmart, etc.

yes, I understand Clinton left the economy in good spending shape for Bush...

Defense spending is a relatively small percentage of GDP. The pentagon budget is pushing a half-trillion dollars, but it is still single digits in terms of GDP%, so I dont why you would say its a main engine of growth.

I wasnt referring to bush tax cuts-I beleive our status as net creditor ended before clinton entered office. Did do know that our foreign investments net us about 40billion a year after subtracting all foreign interest? This is a pretty interesting article about how this could be, given that official stats show a negative balance of trade.

 

[k]

The US had a permanent war economy? I don't know what you'd call North Korea or Japan then. The US never even got to, much less surpassed, military spending as even 10% of GDP. In fact, its comparatively rare for the US defense budget to raise above 5% of GDP, which is in line with Western nations. Right now, our defense budget isn't even at 4% of GDP.

North Korea or the former USSR where the nation was spending over 1/3 of its GDP on defense is a war economy, not the USA.

No, I said the US HAS a Permanent War Economy.

I suppose if we look at it as narrowly as GDP and purposefully ignore all the other factors then this would make a diff.

 

[k]

Defense spending is a relatively small percentage of GDP. The pentagon budget is pushing a half-trillion dollars, but it is still single digits in terms of GDP%, so I dont why you would say its a main engine of growth.

I wasnt referring to bush tax cuts-I beleive our status as net creditor ended before clinton entered office. Did do know that our foreign investments net us about 40billion a year after subtracting all foreign interest? This is a pretty interesting article about how this could be, given that official stats show a negative balance of trade.

Because defense spending is not in a vacuum.

What is our current deficit?

 

[LogicChristian]

No, I said the US HAS a Permanent War Economy.

I suppose if we look at it as narrowly as GDP and purposefully ignore all the other factors then this would make a diff.

That's what I'm demonstrating. The US economy is neither permanently mobilized for war nor dependent on war.

 

[k]

I think America is too dependent on other countries. If trade went down...would we actually be able to manufacture our own clothes and produce our own food and make it enough for everyone in America? I really doubt it.

If trade relations go out, we'd all be nekkid and starving and no doubt, whining for the president to do something about it or for other countries to do something about it.

The US produces 2x as much food as it needs every year...and that's with having farmers NOT farm even more food. We could also clothe ourselves w/ no problem. However, our very culture would collapse because we would be short on materials and income from drugs, weapons, and oil.

 

[k]

That's what I'm demonstrating. The US economy is neither permanently mobilized for war nor dependent on war.

The problem is too many are looking at "Defense spending" as if it's in a vacuum and that NO OTHER industries are effected.

The Bush family, ITT, IBM, Ford, GM, GE...all of those enterprises got their start from Hitler...economy is pervasive and interdependent. Look at it this way...the US has fought in more wars/conflicts than any other nation on earth and it is also the most powerful. War is damn expensive so there must be an explanation.

 

[k]

This article helps explain it...

http://www.counterpunch.org/melman03152003.html

 

[LogicChristian]

The problem is too many are looking at "Defense spending" as if it's in a vacuum and that NO OTHER industries are effected.

Of course other industries are affected, that's true of any nation with an indigenous defense industry. How does that make the US a permanent war economy.

 

[Donkeytron]

Because defense spending is not in a vacuum.

What is our current deficit?

I know its not, but your first posts in this thread suggest the US is closer to north korea than it is to, say, canada. I'm just curious, do you have any links to projections of what economic impact war has on the economy?

As for the deficit, thats a loaded question. Here is the total fiscal defecit:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ at around 8trillion dollars. If the government had to report its liabilities under GAAP or something like it, that number would be much larger from the addition of every other unfunded liablity we have outstanding.

 

[Donkeytron]

The US produces 2x as much food as it needs every year...and that's with having farmers NOT farm even more food. We could also clothe ourselves w/ no problem. However, our very culture would collapse because we would be short on materials and income from drugs, weapons, and oil.

Our culture will collapse because of what now?

 

[LogicChristian]

In terms of the size of the deficit in relation to GDP, Europe and Japan both have larger deficits than the US even with lower defense spending.

 

[k]

I know its not, but your first posts in this thread suggest the US is closer to north korea than it is to, say, canada. I'm just curious, do you have any links to projections of what economic impact war has on the economy?

As for the deficit, thats a loaded question. Here is the total fiscal defecit:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ at around 8trillion dollars. If the government had to report its liabilities under GAAP or something like it, that number would be much larger from the addition of every other unfunded liablity we have outstanding.

I put one article in post 30.

We cannot compare the US to NK in terms % defense spending in reference to GDP because the two nations operate very differently and on different scales.

 

[k]

Our culture will collapse because of what now?

We live in an entertainment based society and everything from clothing to housing to driving trends are contingent upon that industry. It's an industry built on luxury and w/o the resources necessary to maintain the status quo our entire culture would switch priorities in a way that is so drastic that our culture itself would change.

 

[sethad]

The US produces 2x as much food as it needs every year...and that's with having farmers NOT farm even more food. We could also clothe ourselves w/ no problem. However, our very culture would collapse because we would be short on materials and income from drugs, weapons, and oil.

Really? That surprises me...got a source?

 

[LogicChristian]

Americans couldn't drive or dress themselves without war?

 

[Donkeytron]

I put one article in post 30.

We cannot compare the US to NK in terms % defense spending in reference to GDP because the two nations operate very differently and on different scales.

Oops sorry i missed it. I will give it a read.

Edit: I read it and it was the usual hyperbolic neomarxist stuff I had to endure on countless days on walks through washington square park. I really hate when bits of economic news are amalgamated into an overarching conspiracy to destroy manufacturing jobs and usher in a new age of....whatever. No wonder its author isnt a professor of economics. Like most people who but this stuff, he feels free to ignore all advances in economic thought since about 1700. Do you have any serious papers, published in defense or economics journals that can substantiate your claim that defense is the main driver of economic growth in the US? And doesnt this idea contradict your assertion that we are an entertainment based economy? Which is it?

 

[k]

Americans couldn't drive or dress themselves without war?

That's taking it to the extreme...clothing ourselves would not be an issue...the driving part would be in 50 or so years...but as long as we keep invading oil rich countries that won't be a problem.