What's wrong with gay marriage?

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Funny Fundie

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We know that homosexuality is a radically different lifestyle than heterosexuality. For example, a homosexual will feel an attraction to members of his or her gender, whereas heterosexuals feel attraction to members of the opposite sex. Also, homosexual men always seek civil unions with other men and women will always pursue a civil union with another female, whereas heterosexual men will always seek to marry women. Homosexual men feel sexually aroused towards other men. Homosexual women feel arousal towards other women. For the heterosexual, sexual arousal is always directed at the opposite sex.
There are more differences that transcend mere sociology. For example, gay men will usually act in an effeminate manner and lesbian females will usually act in a masculine way when we compare these sexes to their heterosexual counterparts. This phenomena is observed in all human communities.

Knowing this, I ask and often wonder why the homosexual community has yet to come out with an appropriate, consistent, suitable and legal definition of gay marriage. Could it be a lack of motivation that prevents them from defining homosexual marriage? Could it be lack of finances?
A logical answer may be that there is some king of hitherto unaddressed self-loathing; that the homosexual will not love himself until he is a part of society at last, and that being a part of society must necessarily include the hijacking of the traditional concept of marriage, but I may be wrong on this.

Can anyone on this forum explain what's wrong with the idea of gay marriage?
 

WatersMoon110

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A logical answer may be that there is some king of hitherto unaddressed self-loathing; that the homosexual will not love himself until he is a part of society at last, and that being a part of society must necessarily include the hijacking of the traditional concept of marriage,
Gay Couples are looking for are the legal rights that currently go along with legal unions for any Straight Couple. As the Californian Supreme Court has already ruled, Separate is never Equal, so they need their legal unions to be filed as all other legal unions are - or they have not gotten the same rights.

Marriage as we know it in the US is between two adults who love each other, and that definition of "marriage" has been around for 50 years at most. There isnt' any long-standing "tradition" that goes along with marriage, as so many RWAers keep implying. The term "traditional marriage" to descibe marriage as it is known in the US is a complete misnomer, as nothing about it adheres to the true "traditions" of marriage: treating women as property, having elders arrange the marriage, etc.
 
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Freodin

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Knowing this, I ask and often wonder why the homosexual community has yet to come out with an appropriate, consistent, suitable and legal definition of gay marriage.
As far as I know and have followed the debate here in Germany, the definition of "gay marriage" is the same as "straight marriage".
 
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stan1980

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Only thing I see wrong with gay marriage is that you guys are gonna contribute to the already insane divorce rate we currently have in the US.

They might improve the divorce rate of course! Either way, like you say yourself, there really isn't much to preserve here!

Maybe that's it, Christians are absolutely terrified that those perverted Homosexual deviants are going to have a lower divorce rate than their own pitiful record! That would be something of an embarrassment for Christians!
 
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God has given us the free will to believe anything we want- but that does not make it right. The Bible makes it very clear that a marriage is a loving, committed relationship between one man and one woman.

If we chose to ignore this definition, then we need to be prepared to ultimately stand before God and explain our actions, and accept the consequences of living our life as we have chosen to do.
 
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stan1980

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God has given us the free will to believe anything we want- but that does not make it right. The Bible makes it very clear that a marriage is a loving, committed relationship between one man and one woman.

If we chose to ignore this definition, then we need to be prepared to ultimately stand before God and explain our actions, and accept the consequences of living our life as we have chosen to do.

Simple, don't get married to someone of your own sex then! If someone else wants to, then they'll be the one who has to stand before God, not you!
 
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cantata

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There are more differences that transcend mere sociology. For example, gay men will usually act in an effeminate manner and lesbian females will usually act in a masculine way when we compare these sexes to their heterosexual counterparts. This phenomena is observed in all human communities.

You're describing the most visible gay people. They are visible because they are unusual. They do not represent even the majority of gay people, however. Most of the gay people that I know are not unusual, gender-identity-wise.

Beware the stealth-gays!
 
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OphidiaPhile

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There are more differences that transcend mere sociology. For example, gay men will usually act in an effeminate manner and lesbian females will usually act in a masculine way when we compare these sexes to their heterosexual counterparts. This phenomena is observed in all human communities.
You sure do not know very many if any gay or lesbian people. I played football with gay men that did not remotely act feminine and I know many lesbians that are very feminine, in fact your stereotypes are the exception not the rule
 
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eeventuality

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Definition of "straight marriage": the union of two legally competent and consenting adults - one being male and the other being female.
Definition of "gay marriage": the union of two legally competent and consenting adults.

The only difference I see between the two is that little tag at the end of "straight marriage" that determines who qualifies. As for gays and straights being fundamentally different, let's look at their similarities, hmm?

Both are human beings who require food, water, shelter, love, esteem, and friendship for what we might call a full and fulfilling life. Both experience the full range of human emotions and have prejudices that have been built over time for one reason or another. Both have a moral code, though that code is different, as it is for every person, based on their experiences growing up and what they were taught.

In short, there's more in common than different. Sure, gays and straights may have different ideas about what's attractive, but talk to men vs. women (gay or straight) and you'll get vastly different answers about what they're looking for in a partner, appearance and personality-wise.
 
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Robbie_James_Francis

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You're describing the most visible gay people. They are visible because they are unusual. They do not represent even the majority of gay people, however. Most of the gay people that I know are not unusual, gender-identity-wise.

Beware the stealth-gays!

We're incredibly dangerous, you know. You meet us, get to know us, become friends and then suddenly...you find out our sexuality. By which time it's too late to have idiotic ideas about what gay people are like because you already know one that is no different from anyone else.
 
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Robbie_James_Francis

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God has given us the free will to believe anything we want- but that does not make it right. The Bible makes it very clear that a marriage is a loving, committed relationship between one man and one woman.

If we chose to ignore this definition, then we need to be prepared to ultimately stand before God and explain our actions, and accept the consequences of living our life as we have chosen to do.

Yes, and if we lived in a conservative Christian theocracy that would be relevant. Fortunately, we both live in secular countries. I can't fathom religious opposition to secularism. Your denominations are minorities, so would you really want to live under the rule of the majority religion and be unable to practice your own?
 
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Simple, don't get married to someone of your own sex then! If someone else wants to, then they'll be the one who has to stand before God, not you!

Precisely my point.

Even Jesus, when he was preaching in the Holy land, did not force people to follow his teachings. He certainly warned of the dire consequences of not following his edicts- but still allowed everyone to exercise their free will.

Ephesians 5:5

5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.
 
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Yes, and if we lived in a conservative Christian theocracy that would be relevant. Fortunately, we both live in secular countries. I can't fathom religious opposition to secularism. Your denominations are minorities, so would you really want to live under the rule of the majority religion and be unable to practice your own?

Again, I agree with your comment and would say "no" to your question.

But with free will comes responsibility and consequence. Personally, I would not want to ultimately face the wrath of God, so I'm very motivated to do what He suggests in the Bible.

Romans 2:

5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God "will give to each person according to what he has done."
 
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Funny Fundie

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Yes, and if we lived in a conservative Christian theocracy that would be relevant. Fortunately, we both live in secular countries. I can't fathom religious opposition to secularism. Your denominations are minorities, so would you really want to live under the rule of the majority religion and be unable to practice your own?

As far as religions ae concerned, Christianity is the most gay-friendly. This being because of the Fruits of the Spirit you read about in the book of Galatians.
Judaism and especially Islam is on the rise in the world, and growing quite rapidly. Christianity is on the decline. Knowing this, we can expect more instances of homophobia throughout the world in the coming years.
As far as secular countries, I cannot think of one that did not harass the homosexual to his death. Nazi's cooked them in ovens; communists shot them in their foreheads. They are not welcome no mattrer where they go, unless where they go happens to be a closet (such as a gay bar) or a Christian-centric democracy.
 
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Funny Fundie

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Fellow Christians: we may be harassed by the homosexual and constantly ridiculed, but remember that with long suffering comes the Kingdom of Heaven. We may desire that they live out their dreamworld (which is a secular ideal, such as mid-WWII Germany or Russia) where we know they would meet a swift end so that we do not have to deal with the offense (their ridiculing of our faith), but we must always persevere with love and long-suffering.
Athene, before you act in your usual push-button fashion, read post #20.
Thanks in advance.
 
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OphidiaPhile

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Fellow Christians: we may be harassed by the homosexual and constantly ridiculed, but remember that with long suffering comes the Kingdom of Heaven. We may desire that they live out their dreamworld (which is a secular ideal, such as mid-WWII Germany or Russia) where we know they would meet a swift end so that we do not have to deal with the offense (their ridiculing of our faith), but we must always persevere with love and long-suffering.

WOW, I mean seriously did you just say that, I cannot believe my eyes, that is absolutely despicable and disgusting!
 
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Beanieboy

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We know that homosexuality is a radically different lifestyle than heterosexuality. For example, a homosexual will feel an attraction to members of his or her gender, whereas heterosexuals feel attraction to members of the opposite sex. Also, homosexual men always seek civil unions with other men and women will always pursue a civil union with another female, whereas heterosexual men will always seek to marry women. Homosexual men feel sexually aroused towards other men. Homosexual women feel arousal towards other women. For the heterosexual, sexual arousal is always directed at the opposite sex.
There are more differences that transcend mere sociology. For example, gay men will usually act in an effeminate manner and lesbian females will usually act in a masculine way when we compare these sexes to their heterosexual counterparts. This phenomena is observed in all human communities.
I think there are differences, but your "differences" show commonalities.
You may see someone who is attractive, want to go over and talk to her, may be a little nervous because your don't want to be rejected. You finally go over, talk and get her number. Then you wonder how long you should wait to call. Then you go out, and wonder how and when you are going to kiss her, or if she wants to see you again, or if you want to see her again.
The same can happen with a gay man and another man emotionally, the same, "does he like me? Are we going to kiss? Are we going to do more than kiss? Why hasn't he called?" All of that is the same. It's just different in gender.

You also have a few stereotypes of the man being effeminate, or the lesbian being masculine, when there are very masculine gay men as well, and very feminine lesbians. You simply see the extremes, and then think that is all gay men and women.

Watch an old movie sometime. The "dandies" seem very gay by today's standards, yet not thought that at all at the time.

What is different is the simultaneous love/hate with heterosexuals. Men often try to lie to seduce women. Women often act stupid or weak to make the guy appear tough. Men often try to buy love by buying women gifts. Some women become golddiggers, in love with money, and the man is their access to it. Straight men rarely fantasize about their wedding day, but rather, dread it, try to avoid it, are often known for being commitmentphobic, while girls dream from age 4 or 5, and romanticize the wedding day like they are playing grown up Fairy Princess.
Once married, you gather for holidays, the men all in one room watching the game, and the women in the kitchen, talking about recipies, who's getting married, and who's having a baby.

Were it not for sex, I don't think straight men and women would have anything to do with each other, just like they don't when they are children.
Knowing this, I ask and often wonder why the homosexual community has yet to come out with an appropriate, consistent, suitable and legal definition of gay marriage. Could it be a lack of motivation that prevents them from defining homosexual marriage? Could it be lack of finances?
A logical answer may be that there is some king of hitherto unaddressed self-loathing; that the homosexual will not love himself until he is a part of society at last, and that being a part of society must necessarily include the hijacking of the traditional concept of marriage, but I may be wrong on this.

Can anyone on this forum explain what's wrong with the idea of gay marriage?

In Toronto, you can get married. Everyone quickly said, "So, are you guys going to get married?" I said, "You are straight and have been living with your boyfriend for 4 years. Are you going to get married ASAP?" Just because you can doesn't mean you will.

Most gays who marry are making a formal commitment to one another. The Quaker Wedding I went to was two women that have been together for 17 years.

However, I know a couple that has been together for 10 years, that has no intention of marrying. Why? Because they believe that they don't have to bow to heterosexual ideology of what is "normal". They don't have to answer to heterosexuals, who may feel that if the couple marries, at least they are monogamous and committed, which is what they view as normal.

However, even if I was to marry my partner tomorrow, many people that voted Yes on Prop 8 would still not consider me married, even though it was legal, or they might say, "well, he's not married - he's gay. He had a gay "marriage", refusing to even acknowledge it.

For that reason, many gay couples, no longer willing to answer to heterosexual society, define their own individual relationship in the way that they see fit. In Canada, you can have a marriage, or a domestic partnership, which is close in rights, and you have a choice to define it.

Personally, when I see heterosexuals arguing about the sanctity of marriage, and how gay marriage is a threat, while ignoring that divorce is the true threat that legally dissolves it, and the fact that they can't even keep their own marriages together, despite being approved by society, where gays are not, it's like listening to your neighbor telling you that it is time to cut your lawn while you see smoke coming out of this house.
 
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Beanieboy

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WOW, I mean seriously did you just say that, I cannot believe my eyes, that is absolutely despicable and disgusting!

Nothing surprises me anymore. Wear a "Hi. My name is Christian" on your lapel, and you are supposed to think the person has a Christlike heart, but often on these forums, it is simply a white washed tomb.

It's a huge assault to Christianity, and to Christ.
 
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OphidiaPhile

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I think there are differences, but your "differences" show commonalities.
You may see someone who is attractive, want to go over and talk to her, may be a little nervous because your don't want to be rejected. You finally go over, talk and get her number. Then you wonder how long you should wait to call. Then you go out, and wonder how and when you are going to kiss her, or if she wants to see you again, or if you want to see her again.
The same can happen with a gay man and another man emotionally, the same, "does he like me? Are we going to kiss? Are we going to do more than kiss? Why hasn't he called?" All of that is the same. It's just different in gender.
Maybe I am weird but I have never had even the slightest problem or nervousness walking up to a woman and asking her out or even a group of women and asking one for her number, I generally strike up a conversation everywhere I go with whomever is around. And as for calling her I just do it the next day and never sit and think about it ahead of time.

And as for the kiss I always do that on the first date.

Rejection has never fazed me and believe me I have had my fair share.
 
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