What's with all the 'racist uncles'?

[RDKirk]

The 'system' isn't against minorities. Check out who is employed in the service industry...mostly minorities. Those aren't permanent positions but 'entry level' jobs for poor people, upon which a good lifestyle can be built, if managed properly.

Recall the oft repeated exhortations by many concerned people to these minorities:

Stay in school, be diligent in studying.
Stay out of trouble with the law.
Don't get pregnant or get anyone pregnant.
Care for your health (diet and hygiene).
Dress and groom for success.

To be successful on the job: Cheerfully serve everyone; your boss, the customers, and fellow employees.

These admonitions should be posted in every school and workplace.

The problem is that within those environments, those exhortations can be unpracticable. They're pretty much like exhorting a drowning man to just hold his breath.

Personally, I had what I call a "well-ordered" childhood on military installations (the ultimate gated communties) and suburbs serving military bases.

But I've talked to men who have managed to escape those environments--and they are exceptional--listened to their stories, and marveled that they were better men that I am.

 

[RDKirk]

Huh? I don't know where you live, but from what I can see of AA culture, there's more attention given to appearance there than there is in a lot of white culture, particularly when comparing folks of similar means. Popular AA culture may skew towards trendy rather than business-y, but IME, it's more often white folk who just look sloppy.

That was rather true until recently. Modern black guys can't seem to shake the prison-wear influence. Or grown men dress exactly like adolescents. I look around and I have to say that these days white guys are generally more fly than black guys.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Which is fine, but doesn't address my point.

The healthcare system isn't responsible for your health...you are. When you fail to care for your health it patches you up, nothing more.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That has nothing to do with race, or are we making the racist argument that black people are "unclean"?

All minorities have more health problems than white people, mainly because of poor health choices and habits. By hygiene I mean personal dental care. In case you didn't know getting teeth fixed, pulled, or replaced is quite expensive (been there, done that). Better to brush and floss properly. The money saved can be spent on other needs.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Oh no no no. It isn't the minorities that need to get the message; their lives are the message.

The ones who need to "get it" are the ones ignorant of it, necessarily.

You should be able to speak your prejudices and feel free; why hide what you think, and be a deceptive entity? Be free!

So, you want the tail to wag the dog. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The problem is that within those environments, those exhortations can be unpracticable. They're pretty much like exhorting a drowning man to just hold his breath.

Personally, I had what I call a "well-ordered" childhood on military installations (the ultimate gated communties) and suburbs serving military bases.

But I've talked to men who have managed to escape those environments--and they are exceptional--listened to their stories, and marveled that they were better men that I am.

You've hit on one of my themes. Not everyone can be saved, but some can be. "He who has ears to hear", and so forth.

 

[Kaon]

So, you want the tail to wag the dog. Ain't gonna happen.

You have missed the point several times...

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You have missed the point several times...

I think your point is that the white community isn't listening. I believe we are.* We just aren't responding the way you want us to. The reason for this is that we don't see things the way you do.
Also I think you want us to trade our experience for yours. We aren't going to do that either.

*Often what people are doing is yelling so loud that we can't hear what they're saying.

I like to snipe from the cheap seats, but I rarely engage directly. Safer that way.

 

[Kaon]

I think your point is that the white community isn't listening. I believe we are.* We just aren't responding the way you want us to. The reason for this is that we don't see things the way you do.

This is interesting on multiple levels, but let's start with the thesis: my point is that certain majorities of people who share in the same ignorance are listening, and know exactly what is going on on - but that they telegraph it to some "statistical prejudice" that acts as a distraction from the solution.

The solution means any one who benefits from the current system will at least be calibrated/normalized with everyone else. That is scary to those people sharing that aforementioned mentality.

As I said, the entire psychology is blatant; I have said several times what the problem is. The subset of the main problem is the ignorance and cowardice of those who play ignorant. We know why one would do this anthropologically: to maintain advantage.

I also said before it is very obvious to those who live outside the States, and many of the citizens are frogs in boiling water. It is an intellectual insult to everyone in the world to imply that America's civil problems have nothing to do with raciam.

The continual denial thereof is another major contributed to the problem.

Also I think you want us to trade our experience for yours. We aren't going to do that either.

I don't really care about your experience, and you don't know mine because I haven't expressd any part of my identity. So far, only assumptions can be made - and I do that with the purpose of gauging prejudices even in anonymity.

I do care about the truth, and I would have to be blind and in denial to say that America's "incivility, division and pain" isn't because of racism. It may be your own ego that believes I would insinuate a "culture exchange", especially given that I know that isn't realistic (because of the ignorance and cowardice aforementioned).

*Often what people are doing is yelling so loud that we can't hear what they're saying.

I like to snipe from the cheap seats, but I rarely engage directly. Safer that way.

Oh, that's interesting. Well, I am not yelling; I find a lot of people are very sensitive these days. That isn't a dig at you; I am just saying that in general.

However, what you said here is pithy for bitter-sweet reasons.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This is interesting on multiple levels, but let's start with the thesis: my point is that certain majorities of people who share in the same ignorance are listening, and know exactly what is going on on - but that they telegraph it to some "statistical prejudice" that acts as a distraction from the solution.

The solution means any one who benefits from the current system will at least be calibrated/normalized with everyone else. That is scary to those people sharing that aforementioned mentality.

As I said, the entire psychology is blatant; I have said several times what the problem is. The subset of the main problem is the ignorance and cowardice of those who play ignorant. We know why one would do this anthropologically: to maintain advantage.

I also said before it is very obvious to those who live outside the States, and many of the citizens are frogs in boiling water. It is an intellectual insult to everyone in the world to imply that America's civil problems have nothing to do with raciam.

The continual denial thereof is another major contributed to the problem.



I don't really care about your experience, and you don't know mine because I haven't expressd any part of my identity. So far, only assumptions can be made - and I do that with the purpose of gauging prejudices even in anonymity.

I do care about the truth, and I would have to be blind and in denial to say that America's "incivility, division and pain" isn't because of racism. It may be your own ego that believes I would insinuate a "culture exchange", especially given that I know that isn't realistic (because of the ignorance and cowardice aforementioned).



Oh, that's interesting. Well, I am not yelling; I find a lot of people are very sensitive these days. That isn't a dig at you; I am just saying that in general.

However, what you said here is pithy for bitter-sweet reasons.

My "yelling" comment wasn't aimed at you but at the minority community i.e. "actions speak louder than words". The prime example is the Black Lives Matter thing. White people are supposed to hold black lives in higher regard that do blacks themselves.
Regarding the rest of your comments, I believe you are overthinking this thing. Of course racism is the root of the problem. That isn't going to change. Minorities will just have to deal with it the best they can. And while overt racism is illegal you can't legislate preference away.

 

[Kaon]

My "yelling" comment wasn't aimed at you but at the minority community i.e. "actions speak louder than words". The prime example is the Black Lives Matter thing. White people are supposed to hold black lives in higher regard that do blacks themselves.
Regarding the rest of your comments, I believe you are overthinking this thing. Of course racism is the root of the problem. That isn't going to change. Minorities will just have to deal with it the best they can. And while overt racism is illegal you can't legislate preference away.

You keep using hackneyed stereotypes about minorities; that is a problem, and it makes it clear why you think racism has to be Jim Crow to exist and operate. It also highlights why you really don't understand the problem, and your continual suggestions based on those stereotypes. You have been told the problem and solution several times, but you are ignorant to it. That is your right, but at the same time you can't seem to understand what the fuss is all about. You are handicapped.



And, the second one thinks one is overthinking something is the first step to intellectual degeneracy. There is no such thing as overthinking.

I'm never sure if you are trolling, so I gotta stop here.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You keep using hackneyed stereotypes about minorities; that is a problem, and it makes it clear why you think racism has to be Jim Crow to exist and operate. It also highlights why you really don't understand the problem, and your continual suggestions based on those stereotypes. You have been told the problem and solution several times, but you are ignorant to it. That is your right, but at the same time you can't seem to understand what the fuss is all about. You are handicapped.



And, the second one thinks one is overthinking something is the first step to intellectual degeneracy. There is no such thing as overthinking.

I'm never sure if you are trolling, so I gotta stop here.

Not trolling, and, you haven't offered any solutions...just criticism of the tried and true. At some point one has to stop analyzing a problem and get to solving it. In case you missed it we have solved the problem of poverty in America. At this point in time genuine poverty is just political rhetoric, not an actual fact.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Not trolling, and, you haven't offered any solutions...just criticism of the tried and true. At some point one has to stop analyzing a problem and get to solving it.

And yet, in almost every thread you start, your analysis is demonstrably -almost deliberately- wrong. It's gotten to the point of being predictable.

Case in point:

In case you missed it we have solved the problem of poverty in America. At this point in time genuine poverty is just political rhetoric, not an actual fact.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

And yet, in almost every thread you start, your analysis is demonstrably -almost deliberately- wrong. It's gotten to the point of being predictable.

Case in point:

Sorry, but just because you disagree doesn't make me wrong.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Sorry, but just because you disagree doesn't make me wrong.

You're right - that's not what makes you wrong. It's your espousing of falsehoods that makes you wrong.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You're right - that's not what makes you wrong. It's your espousing of falsehoods that makes you wrong.

Name one.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Name one.

Ok. Here's one that's demonstrably false:

One would have to look hard to find anyone actually impoverished.

Here are two that are built on such fundamentally flawed and over-simplified analyses that they border on the cartoonish:

Train and arm the refugees. They can then take back their countries.

S.N.A.P (food stamps) is a collossal failure.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Ok. Here's one that's demonstrably false:



Here are two that are built on such fundamentally flawed and over-simplified analyses that they border on the cartoonish:



S.N.A.P (food stamps) is a collossal failure.

Even photos of poor people reveal adequate clothing and nourishment (many are overweight or obese), and those who sleep on the streets largely do so by choice. Some are so troublesome that they are not allowed in local shelters.

This is not to say that there aren't unforeseen spikes in unaddressed poverty in various places, but those events are quickly addressed.

Armed resistance to the bad guys is the only way some nations will ever solve their problems. We should help with this by arming and training them. Isn't that what we're doing in Afganistan. Why are the people of the Middle East more worthy of such help than Central America?

The liberal mantra that "America was built by immigrants" is patently false. It was built on the foundation of armed invasion, seizure of lands, and the dispossessing of native citizens: conquest. Our immigration policies early on were to welcome those from our ancestral English and European homelands.

My thread on the failure of SNAP was clearly sarcasm. How could there be hunger when we spend so much on food for the poor?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Sadly, I think you're right. We have Neo-Nazis coming out of the woodwork since Trump was elected and these white nationalists aren't even hiding behind their white robes and hoods anymore. They're chanting "Hail Trump!" right out in the open where everyone can see them and know who they are.

I would honestly rather see them out in the open than being hiding in the shadows.