What's new in the world of Creationism vs Evolution?

[bhsmte]

Farming began with the Hebrew nation and then spread to the non Hebrew nations. God lifts up a people to be a great nation and they set an example for the other nations to follow.

No evidence then. Thanks.

 

[joshua 1 9]

No evidence then. Thanks.

I am just to lazy to look it up for people. I have had this conversation fifty million billion times and I am getting pretty tired of it.

 

[bhsmte]

I am just to lazy to look it up for people. I have had this conversation fifty million billion times and I am getting pretty tired of it.

Let us know when you become less lazy.

 

[Queller]

Farming began with the Hebrew nation and then spread to the non Hebrew nations. God lifts up a people to be a great nation and they set an example for the other nations to follow.

So IOW, no, you don't have any evidence to back up your assertion that "the Hebrew people took farming to Europe". You could have just said so from the start.

 

[Queller]

I am just to lazy to look it up for people. I have had this conversation fifty million billion times and I am getting pretty tired of it.

Uh huh, sure you have. Care to link to one of those 50,000,000,000,000,000 conversations so we can see for ourselves the evidence you are "too lazy" to provide?

 

[PsychoSarah]

I am just to lazy to look it up for people. I have had this conversation fifty million billion times and I am getting pretty tired of it.

Then you'd just save a link to another discussion in which you did have the evidence posted, like other people do.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Then you'd just save a link to another discussion in which you did have the evidence posted, like other people do.

There are fifty million billion questions that people ask and we have to be prepared for an answer for every one of them. The problem here on this form is that people want to argue with your answer and I simple do not have time for that.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Let us know when you become less lazy.

I get less lazy when the question get better.

 

[joshua 1 9]

No evidence then. Thanks.

No evidence that farming began in the fertile crescent and spread to the rest of the world from there? You really need to do your homework before you make a statement like that.

 

[PsychoSarah]

There are fifty million billion questions that people ask and we have to be prepared for an answer for every one of them. The problem here on this form is that people want to argue with your answer and I simple do not have time for that.

-_- then don't get involved with so many debates, it's that simple.

 

[joshua 1 9]

-_- then don't get involved with so many debates, it's that simple.

I don't actually, I just get a lot of responses to the little amount I do get involved.

 

[Gene2memE]

No evidence that farming began in the fertile crescent and spread to the rest of the world from there? You really need to do your homework before you make a statement like that.

There's some evidence that the earliest farming took place in the Fertile Crescent. See the Kebaran-culture Ohalo II site as the earliest known example of proto-cultivation.

There's increasing amounts of evidence that agriculture was developed in multiple locations across the globe (Fertile Crescent, Central Asia, Northwestern China, Indus Valley, Northwestern Africa, US West Coast, Papua New Guinea) independently of what occurred in the other locations over a spread of about 15,000 years.

There's NO evidence that "Farming began with the Hebrew nation and then spread to the non Hebrew nations", unless you can show that the Kebaran-Natufian-Khiamian-Tahunia-Yarmukiann cultural progression in the Levant was a "Hebrew nation"

 

[joshua 1 9]

There's increasing amounts of evidence that agriculture was developed in multiple locations across the globe

There are many Edens on the earth, we are talking about the Eden in the Fertile Crescent in the Middle east. Here we find peas, beans and lentils, vegetables like cucumbers, leeks, lettuces and garlic, and fruit such as grapes, apples, melons and figs. Later other foods were grown like onions, beetroot, turnips, pears, pomegranates, nuts and various herbs. Also we find sheep, goats and cows as well as many other animals that we read about in our Bible.

If you want to talk about the Indus Valley in Asia you are talking about a totally different biodiverse ecosystem. The food from this "Eden" did not arrive in Europe until much later around the time of Marcos Polo when the Silk Road finally extended all the way to Europe. Trade and travel start off very limited around two or three hundred miles. Then over thousands of years the trade routes got to be as long as two or three thousand miles.

I really do not see how you can confuse the distribution of food to the rest of the world from these two very different eco systems.

 

[bhsmte]

There are fifty million billion questions that people ask and we have to be prepared for an answer for every one of them. The problem here on this form is that people want to argue with your answer and I simple do not have time for that.

Dont post then. If you make claims, people will ask you to support them.

 

[bhsmte]

I don't actually, I just get a lot of responses to the little amount I do get involved.

Could be because people notice, you make a lot of claims and have zero to back them up.

 

[Queller]

No evidence that farming began in the fertile crescent and spread to the rest of the world from there?

That isn't the claim you made. You claimed that the Hebrews took farming to Europe. Remember?

 

[AV1611VET]

That isn't the claim you made. You claimed that the Hebrews took farming to Europe. Remember?

Did you know that every seventh year the Hebrews were not to plant anything?

Do you know what the significance of that was on the secular level?

Spoiler

It was a form of pest control.

 

[Gene2memE]

There are many Edens on the earth, we are talking about the Eden in the Fertile Crescent in the Middle east. Here we find peas, beans and lentils, vegetables like cucumbers, leeks, lettuces and garlic, and fruit such as grapes, apples, melons and figs. Later other foods were grown like onions, beetroot, turnips, pears, pomegranates, nuts and various herbs. Also we find sheep, goats and cows as well as many other animals that we read about in our Bible.

If you want to talk about the Indus Valley in Asia you are talking about a totally different biodiverse ecosystem. The food from this "Eden" did not arrive in Europe until much later around the time of Marcos Polo when the Silk Road finally extended all the way to Europe. Trade and travel start off very limited around two or three hundred miles. Then over thousands of years the trade routes got to be as long as two or three thousand miles.

I really do not see how you can confuse the distribution of food to the rest of the world from these two very different eco systems.

You made a specific claim - the Hebrew nation was the first to start farming, and then the Hebrew nation spread this to non-Hebrew nations, setting the example for other nations to follow.

I responded, with evidence, that not only is this wrong for the globe generally (with the evidence pointing to agriculture developing independently across multiple sites globally over a near 15,000 year period) but its also wrong for the Fertile Crescent specifically.

The oldest evidence of farming currently known DOES indeed come from the Levant. However, the evidence suggests that it pre-dates any "Hebrew nation" by close to 20,000 years, being developed by a completely distinct culture.

Similarly, no "Hebrew nation' was involved in the domestication of cattle (that best evidence shows occurring in Turkey/Iraq around 11,000 years ago) nor of figs (Northern Africa about 16,000 years ago) or lettuce (Egypt, about 9,000-10,000 years ago).

Likewise, the evidence for the domestication of apples and pigs shows contributions from southern Europe and Central and Western Asia, rather than the Levant.

I never mentioned 'Eden' or 'Edens' or 'Europe', and my reference to the Indus Valley was highlighting it as one of multiple independent locations for the development of farming and domestication of certain animals & crops.

So, what evidence do you have to support your claims?

 

[joshua 1 9]

You made a specific claim - the Hebrew nation was the first to start farming,

Yes, that is what the Bible says. Adam was the first to TILL the land. Hunter gatherers may have thrown some seeds in a mud puddle but that is not real farming. This is also referred to as a man to cultivate the ground.

"And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground". Genesis 2:5

The second chapter of Genesis talks about a Garden in Eden that God Himself planted and Adam was given the job of taking care of God's Garden. God goes by the time when HE IS FINISHED. This is when a plant is whole, complete and mature. When the plant flowers and is ready to reproduce. He does not go by the seed, or when the seed is planted or when the seed begins to sprout.

The age or era begins around 13,000 years ago when the glaciers melted. There was a mass extinction at the time and then a population explosion or in evolutionary biology, they call this an adaptive radiation. From a dispensational perspective each day in the Bible lasts 1,000 years. So the age we live in now began around 13,000 years ago. We find Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden around 6,000 years ago.

Current theory right now based on photography from sources like google earth shows that the Garden of Eden was north of the Strait of Hormuz. This is an area that at one time was known for its Pearls. Most likely this is were we get the term Pearls of Wisdom.

The opening to the Persian Gulf was described, but not given a name, in the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea, a 1st-century mariner's guide:

"At the upper end of these Calaei islands is a range of mountains called Calon, and there follows not far beyond, the mouth of the Persian Gulf, where there is much diving for the pearl-mussel. To the left of the straits are great mountains called Asabon and to the right there rises in full view another round and high mountain called Semiramis; between them the passage across the strait is about six hundred stadia; beyond which that very great and broad sea, the Persian Gulf, reaches far into the interior. At the upper end of this gulf there is a market-town designated by law called Apologus, situated near Charaex Spasini and the River Euphrates."

— Periplus of the Erythraean Sea, Chapter 35 (wiki)

 

[AV1611VET]

Hunter gatherers ...

Is that like calling someone a "pencil pusher"?