What's Love got to do with it? (warning - long post ahead)

[JPPT1974]

Men need to be accountable for
Their own actions just like
Women need to be held accountable
For their actions and blame nobody
Else but themselves!

 

[Highland Watchman]

Knowing I can expect the truth from you B4A, I'm going to write the natural companion to paragraph one of point three and then ask you about it. I invite the critique of other ladies as well.

Where is it that you women get this hair-brained notion that men are only a strong arm to open jars with and an ATM machine to use for shopping? Let alone this twisted notion of militant feminism that says you don’t need us at all? I’m trying to figure this out. Is it from the messages you get and receive (as auditory creatures) from afternoon talk shows that say men are the source of all evil? Is it from the twisted images of so called smart women like Hillary and Oprah? Yes, women want and should get equality. But must you like cowards attain it by attacking men from afar and bringing society down?

If I address the Christian lovelies on CF this way, will I be shown grace and even applauded? Or will I be ripped apart for being a male chauvinist pig? There are always exceptions, but in terms of general response I think the ladies would read me the riot act and the men would run for the hills. Yet the inverse can be written by a Christian man to Christian men about Christian men and the ladies congratulate him. Wow.

I know of no better way to illustrate my point than by exemplifying the opposite with the mock paragraph above. If you still don’t see it then OK. I surrender. I agree that nothing bad was intended by anyone. I generally like HW's writing. I'm just of the opinion that militant feminism has invaded the church in such insidious ways that we are at times are hardly aware of it.

I know what you are trying to say, and I am in agreement. Militant feminism has invaded the church, and it is a HUGE problem that does need to be dealt with. I did like your mock paragraph, by the way. You could write the companion if you want...

But, because you're a guy writing it, you might be flamed and called a chauvanist pig and all of that. But I'd stand behind you in it. I think it might be more effective, though, if one of the ladies wrote the "companion piece", which would include militant feminism as one of the points that needs to be addressed. That way, it won't be finger pointing from the other side of the divide, but someone from the female trenches holding her other sisters accountible.

 

[Beauty4Ashes]

I'm totally not for feminism.

Ras, as far as what you put out there hypothetically, there could be some truth in that and you would be entitled to your opinon if that was the case. But as long as I know for myself, that that doesnt refer to my character, I would have no reason to be offended by it.

 

[sherri]

I will concede your point gladly if you will show me a church where the Christian women prefer the Christian men who are willing to lead and declare women to be their equal.

Um, to be honest. I find that post a little weird? You're saying that women prefer men to dominate them??? Sorry, but I've never in my life met any.

I know, I know, you will counter that Christian men should stand up for the right, no matter if they get the girl or not.

Both men and women should always stand up for right, regardless.

And I will say that, if you believe this will happen, then you have no idea how God created us.

I don't think I quite get your point. We can either choose to do wrong or right. And as christians, I think the given is that most of us are trying to do whats right.

Women have a responsibility, too. You can't just blame the men for everything.

I haven't and wasn't. You must have missed part of my post.

There are strong Christian men-leaders in most churches. Don't blame them because there are other types of men there, also.

I still think you must have mis-read my post.

But are the men-leaders the ones that the women support? Truly support, not just in theory?

If the woman is following biblical standards and the man isn't abusing his authority - yes.

 

[sherri]

And most feminism comes out of bitterness and hate.

Equality does not.

I think a lot of the problems over this issue come when people confuse the two - especially in christian circles.

Equality is how God originally ordained it and bitterness and hate as a reaction to the inequality just make the problem worse.


EDIT.
(and I"m sick of attacking feminism on here - so someone else can do it)


but yeah, fair point HW

 

[sherri]

Oh all right. Coudn't help myself

The classic negative traits of females that generally irritate everyone (including other females)

Wearing suggestive clothing and then getting self-righteously indignant when men don't treat them with respect.

Being blatant about said suggestive clothing being 'sexy' and 'to attract the boys' and then writing all men off as hormone driven, insensitve morons when they do succeed in attracting the them, with the corresponding results.

Refusing to take the responsibility of society being made up of men and women, and just blaming the guys when they struggle with being attracted to above, said suggestive clothing. Also inappropriate content from all the advertising, tv, net etc that's virtually shoved down their throats from every angle.

Watching tv with guys and then looking down at them as being pathetically hormonal when they're struggling to do the right thing and look away at appropriate moments.

Totally write them off for their struggles instead of trying to understand how God created them and how it's being manipulated.

Make derogative, sweeping statements about the male mentality (ie not having one) and then screaming victim when a similar comment is made regarding them.

Demanding equality but refusing to give it to the men.

Whining (loudly and publicly) about typical male failings and then refusing to do the right thing and hold them accountable for it, within their own domain, because it takes effort.

And finally, one of my personal favourites. Staring outraged at the women he's checking out, when your b/f, husband's got a wandering eye.

 

[OhhJim]

Um, to be honest. I find that post a little weird? You're saying that women prefer men to dominate them??? Sorry, but I've never in my life met any.

Perhaps "dominate" is too strong a word. For example, I don't find squirrels to be my equal, but that doesn't mean I want to "dominate" them. And I know lots of women who prefer men who don't consider them equals.

If the woman is following biblical standards and the man isn't abusing his authority - yes.

Of course, but how often does that happen among older singles? (I say "older" because we are talking about men being leaders.)

My point is mainly that there are all kinds of people in the churches. You aren't going to find a church where "all the men" do anything the same. There are men who treat women well, there are men who don't. It's just that when I look around, I see no correlation between treating women well and being desirable as a man. And men, being the pragmatic creatures that God made us, tend to do what works, rather than what some women say they want.

I will admit that I might have mis-read your post. You are certainly free to clarify it.

 

[Crystal~Rose]

oops NOTE TO SELF>>>>>NEVER LET ANOTHER CF USER USE YOUR COMPUTER! LOL this post was not my own a slight blooper on my account I forgot to log out and told her she was ready to go. sorry guys

 

[sherri]

And I know lots of women who prefer men who don't consider them equals.

To be honest, I have seriously never met any in my life. Only women who never went into a relationship expecting it because they'd never had it and inequality was their 'normal'. If it's all you expect out of life, conciously or unconciously, it's what you'll automatically settle for without even thinking about it.

It's just that when I look around, I see no correlation between treating women well and being desirable as a man. And men, being the pragmatic creatures that God made us, tend to do what works, rather than what some women say they want.

Jim, I'm think I'm starting to find your posts a tad distressing - lol, I understand where you're coming from but I think we're going to just have to agree to disagree. Some women will settle for any kind of treatment bar abuse. And some men I guess, although I imagine not many. Many women seem to think that men will be the answer to all their problems (hence the second part of the curse - 'your desire (hebrew word means 'reaching out towards') will be for your husband, but he will rule over you.'

And thank you for your honesty. It's nice when guys say what they actually think. Regardless.

(sugarcoating doesn't do anyone any favours)

 

[Evie1980]

Hmm this seems like a very intelligent debate that I have missed.

Highland Watchman, I will be fascinated to read what else you have to say on this subject, though I will make a quick comment (if I may).

I think it is interesting when we try to intellectualize a very complex mix of emotions especially as what we say can sometimes be hard to put into action. Dating and the female/male relationship is easier to disect when we are not currently in a relationship. While discussing theory about highly personal and highly individual beliefs should always be commended, it is interesting to think that all this could change in the blink of an eye when we are placed on the spot where it rally matters (or in the realtionship so to speak).

Don't get me wrong - I am not having a go at anyone here but as someone who is just reading now what is being said in this thread, I am finding it rather fascinating (or maybe I have been single way, way, way too long ).

God bless, Evie

 

[JPPT1974]

Love is never supposed to be taken lightly
And that love...real, true, love comes from God
And people that really love the Lord!