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I'm sorry. I didn't mean to misunderstand you. To me, praying in a building next to another building while a group is praying there is not the same as praying physically next to another group of people, sharing our prayers basically with these other groups who are listening and then praying their prayers. To me, that is joint praying in a sense, no matter if the Pope or the Muslim leader aren't praying each other's prayers. Also, praying in our church buildings while people of the Jewish faith and Muslim faith are in their buildings praying next door to us is not done together. This meeting is purposely done in praying together with different prayers of different religions.What I meant is, we are praying side by side with other faiths though we are separated by a street or the walls of a house. This is how I understood what is going on - that these are not inter-faith prayers (praying together) of Christians, Jews, Muslims but different faiths praying side by side so to speak.
If they are praying together with one another, inter-faith prayers, that is something that would truly upset me. If they pray their own prayers in proximity with one another, that is another. I guess I'm not clear on whether these are inter-faith prayers.
In my neighborhood, we don't pray together (inter-faith) but as many of us who do pray (of various faiths) pray 'next to' each other in our homes. Or in a restaurant, when we pray before our meal ...
I guess I need to be clear on which it is.
could we imagine someone like St. Justin Popovich or Elder Paisios, etc going anywhere near such an event?
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to misunderstand you. To me, praying in a building next to another building while a group is praying there is not the same as praying physically next to another group of people, sharing our prayers basically with these other groups who are listening and then praying their prayers. To me, that is joint praying in a sense, no matter if the Pope or the Muslim leader aren't praying each other's prayers.
So, I suppose we are talking about what we consider praying jointing together and how those can be more than one way.
could we imagine someone like St. Justin Popovich or Elder Paisios, etc going anywhere near such an event?
"i dont know, but i don't see that it makes a terribly big difference."
Oh well then, I guess that means if an OCF chapter that has been regularly meeting in an interfaith center on campus will have to stop meeting in that space and go find another space isolated from everyone else, because the jews and the muslims are just a few feet away in the next room saying their prayers, so that means we are praying with them? Or that a ROCOR mission that meets a few doors down from a pentecostal church in a office park is going to have to pack up and find another place to meet far way from any body because they're praying with the pentecostals while they have the divine liturgy a few feet away? Or if you live in a townhouse next to a mormon family, well I guess you'll going to have to move out since you might be saying your prayers at the same time they are, and gosh darn it! you just might be praying with them!
I guess I don't consider praying in proximity to another person praying together; or, if I did, I wouldn't be able to pray outside my own home or parish temple etc.
When the pentecostal group prayed on our block, I didn't think of that as my praying with them even though I heard them.
(Given the amount of arguing/yelling and swearing that can happen in our neighborhood, I guess I'm used to not feeling like I've joined in to something by hearing it)
Yes, well, if we were there praying our prayers with them in the neighborhood, I'd see that as the same as what the Pope, Patriarch and the other two leaders are doing at their meeting.
Thanks, isshinwhat. I'm watching it now.
"i dont know, but i don't see that it makes a terribly big difference."
Oh well then, I guess that means if an OCF chapter that has been regularly meeting in an interfaith center on campus will have to stop meeting in that space and go find another space isolated from everyone else, because the jews and the muslims are just a few feet away in the next room saying their prayers, so that means we are praying with them? Or that a ROCOR mission that meets a few doors down from a pentecostal church in a office park is going to have to pack up and find another place to meet far way from any body because they're praying with the pentecostals while they have the divine liturgy a few feet away? Or if you live in a townhouse next to a mormon family, well I guess you'll going to have to move out since you might be saying your prayers at the same time they are, and gosh darn it! you just might be praying with them!
Did anybody watch the video provided of this Vatican event? I watched most of it. Does anybody know why the Patriarch is seated by himself on the side while the Pope and the two leaders from Palestine and Israel are lined up together?
With the exception of praying and chanting especially prayers from non Christians, the meeting seemed to be like any diplomatic meeting. What are your thoughts?
With the exception of praying and chanting especially prayers from non Christians, the meeting seemed to be like any diplomatic meeting. What are your thoughts?
Pretty much the same, with the addition that I do not believe one can separate either the leaders of those nations represented, or their nations, from the faiths with are associated with them.
Any movement toward peace must acknowledge the religious aspect of the divisions. That does not mean that we must pray with heretics, Muslims, or Jews. We do not have to offer an Amen along with theirs, nor must we bow our heads as they pray, but we have to realize that some of the people participating in these conflicts hold onto their faith as the one beautiful and unifying thing in a life that closely resembles Hell on Earth. They believe sincerely and deeply, and though they are sincerely wrong, God Almighty can and does use the good will of that sincerity to draw them closer to Himself and Holy Orthodoxy.
If we are to call them to true peace which lies in Jesus Christ alone-through our presence and actions- if we are to call them to talk with one another and lay down their swords, we must realize that they are a people of faith and prayer who will express that faith as they search for peace, and they will do it in our presence as we call enemies to meet together.
That being said, I think events like the one at Assisi where pagan idols sat atop Roman Altars rightfully put everyone on edge. It is a difficult road to walk, and I pray the Ecumenical Patriarch is given the grace to travel it according to the will of God and not man. He sat apart from the other professed Christian faiths, the Muslims, Jews, and the political delegations which sat abreast the Pope. Perhaps that was one of his conditions to help alleviate any scandal which the meeting might cause.
it's the prayers that are the issue. they can dialogue and talk all they want, but when folks see images of Jews, Muslims, and Christians all in prayer together, it spreads the false thinking that we all worship the same God, all the children of Abraham, etc.
That impression could be made. Some might also view it as just for show.
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