What would you do if it were proven that God didn't exist?

[Ken-1122]

(quote) “You know what God is really like..... a loving dad.
Any good parent disciplines a child not for their suffering, but for their good. If you are a parent you will no doubt know that lack of discipline breeds a child of little value, of little capacity to achieve anything of note in life.”

I have a loving dad. But I think he is a bit different:
*He would never torture me for having the audacity to love someone else’s dad.
*He would never want me to worship him, beg him for mercy, or grovel at his feet in a way that I wouldn’t even ask of my dog
*He would have stopped Hitler, Amin, Stalin, and a host of other evil people had he the ability to do so
*If he does something that I disagree with, he will gladly explain his actions and apologize if he were wrong.

(quote) “Finally, who decides which sin is worthy of judgment? Is it only the Hitler's would led to the death of million or is it the person that bullied another child at school and caused that child to become withdrawn and reclusive as an adult, having few friends and living a shattered life? Is it the Stalin's only or also the person that passes on sexually transmitted disease that untlimately causes another person to die of cervical cancer

Is the suffering of 10 000 000 more evil than the suffering of one...especially if you are that one? All evil is evil, all pain is pain and who decides what is worthy of judgement? I suppose as long as the suffering and pain we have caused others through lying, cheating and stealing is considered not worthy of judgment, then we are happy.[/font]”

(reply) Hitler and stalin should be more severely punished than the bully or the guy spreading disease. the deliberate killing and torture of millions is much worse than the pain and suffering of one or a few resulting from stupidity or poor decision making

I am not saying all sin isn’t worthy of judgment, I’m just saying eternal torture in a lake of fire isn’t fair judgment for 99% of all sins committed. Some sins are only worthy of a slap on the wrist, others more severe.

Ken

 

[Brenda Morgan]

Finding the demonstrable body of Jesus is about the only thing I can think of that would approach the hypothetical - but it's hard to see how you could demonstrate that a given bodily remains were Jesus'. There were plenty of other people crucified in that era.

You have to watch the movie. It provides a lot of evidence to evaluate.
It's very entertaining and makes one THINK.

 

[norswede]

Now before we start, this is purely speculative. I don't care what it would take to prove it, let's just say theoretically that it was proven.

I'm curious what people's reactions would be in such a situation; what would you do? Burn your bible, resist, assume it's a sham? I'm simply curious that's all.

Ken

I would continue to believe based on my own experiences like I always have. I have had countless experiences I cannot explain that prove to me the existence of God so nothing anyone else could say could convince me otherwise. The Bible says about the last days:

Let no man deceive you by any means for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. 2Thess. 2:3

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie. That they all might be damned who believed not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2Thess. 2:11-12

So I am actually expecting some "Proof" to come out to disprove the existence of God such as the current "Ancient Astronaut" theory. Although this doesn't explain who created their creators or their creators before them. It's just a distraction from having to answer the ultimate question of how we got here and who or what created us and all other matter in the first place. Until science can recreate the Big Bang and make something out of nothing, they shouldn't have any right to teach their big bang theory in schools anymore than we have the right to teach creationism.

 

[TehHollowed]

Not to sound too emotional, but I think it would be completely devastating for believers as well as many other people. Not just a simple "I would move on" as if you had lost your best friend. Nor would the world go morally berzerk. But you would be forced to acknowledge that not only this universe that you find yourself thrusted into has no purpose, rhyme or reason, but YOU as well. Whatever this YOU may be. Be it a strange sack of carbon based materials and chemicals that randomly fire unreliable synaptic thoughts.. somehow becoming self aware enough to realize how useless and actually random it is. Or some kind of strange "Brain in a vat" existence that philosophers like to knock around lol. Either way, I would also have to consider alot more ridiculous things i've come to reject. Namely the possibilities of infinite regress or infinite/brute "things" like matter and energy to start. All while taking for granted my own conciousness and self existence.

While I believe the universe is made of completely material things, in no way do I think they are purposeless, devalued or self existent. I believe the material world does what it does and is what it is.. the extension of the eternal Lord. So i'm not exactly sure what kind of proof would come about. It would sort of be like me building a computer full of virtual men who are trying to disprove MY existence. But they do this by studying their virtual surroundings. Or finding the author of a book by studying the paper and ink.

But even more simpler than that would be the emotional impact for people. Like for me personally, God has become such a huge part of my life in this short time that it would cut me deeper than I even think it would at this moment. I think that's why when people first learn about the Lord and what he is that they want to go out and spread the word. It's almost like a hunger that you never knew you had (or maybe you do) that finally got sated and you actually feel whole. We are very emotional beings and shouldnt be ashamed of that. I know alot of christians that believe only because they WANT it to be true. I also know alot of atheists who reject God not because of a rational argument or problem but because at face value they find the idea of God to be ridiculous. Or they even WANT his nonexistence because they think it would be more freeing somehow. Either way it would make a very big impact on everyone no matter what position they hold to. Whether they realize it or not.

For me personally though, it would be like being hit with a tide of emotions that I would have to sort out slowly.
If I even wanted to at all.

 

[Angelish]

Without the presence of God we wouldn't even know the word immorality. Without God it would be impossible to be a "better person" only with Gods help can a person change! I don't do the right thing because God is watching, I do the right thing because God has taught me and helps me to do the right thing! Yes, without God I am a monster! With God I am a better person and I am not on a leash. Without God this world would be hell!

 

[norswede]

Actually, if it were proven that we are all just animals with no more value than any other animal, I can assure you that the world would fall into complete chaos. The only reason there are laws or values not to kill, steal, commit adultery, molest children, lie, cheat, or many others is because we hold ourselves to a higher morality than the animal kingdom. If we were just mutated apes who only have feelings and consciences because of some random chemical bursts, then what separates us from the laws of the animal kingdom such as kill each other to protect our turf or to claim a female, steal from others to feed ourselves or our families, sleep with multiple partners not caring about the feelings of our current partner, have sex with children as soon as they are old enough to breed no matter how wide the age gap, and every other action formerly considered "Sin". Who would decide the laws when everyone decides for themselves what's right and wrong? For instance if marriage is changed from one man and one woman to accommodate two men or two women, then why not one man and 2 women or one woman and 2 men or 2 women and 10 men or 5 men and 100 women or any combination of men and women. Or why can't pedophiles get rights to be with children if the children agree to it? They are just animals anyway so why should they have rights? Would you keep a tom cat from mating with a kitten? And then why can't a human mate with an animal? We are all animals anyway, where is the natural law that tells us we can't?

If morality goes out the window, what kind of world will we be living in? All groups will fight for rights to live according to their own fetishes, claiming that it's who they are and you have no right to discriminate against them. God gave us laws to create order. Everyone thinks differently and if everyone has the right to live as they wish, that is chaos.

The philosophy of the Church of Satan (who claim to be an atheist organization who use the name Satan to represent anti christian philosophy)
is that we are all nothing but animals and therefore should revert back to our primal instincts, only thinking of ourselves and only helping those who are strong and deserve our help and weed out the weak. This is the philosophy of the survival of the fittest and what we are looking at if we shed our Christian influences and create a completely scientific society. The Book and movie A Brave New World is about such a scientific society and very little of that book is yet to come to pass, it describes the world we are living in almost perfectly. The only thing missing is a dictatorship with forced sterilization and government control of reproduction but it's the logical next step in the fight for population control which is now controlled by pro abortion propaganda.

Although not all of the founding fathers of the United States, Canada were Christian, both countries were founded on Christian principles while giving people freedom to practice their own religion but to create order, they set certain laws in stone but of course most of those laws have been changed now and people are arguing about which ones should even be considered relevant anymore because it's so important to accommodate all groups and all trains of thought except of course for those of the group that originally founded the countries and gave the people these freedoms to begin with

 

[elman]

There is little question in my mind that an Atheist can be loving toward others. They can chose to do that, but I don't see how Atheism encourages that. Christianity on the other hand has Jesus encouraging us to love others.

 

[Brenda Morgan]

There is little question in my mind that an Atheist can be loving toward others. They can chose to do that, but I don't see how Atheism encourages that. Christianity on the other hand has Jesus encouraging us to love others.

There were righteous men before Jesus, and before the Law.
Man doesn't need a "code" to be righteous. He can just do the right thing.

 

[elman]

There were righteous men before Jesus, and before the Law.
Man doesn't need a "code" to be righteous. He can just do the right thing.

I already said that. My point was however was while an Athesist can chose to be good it has nothing to do with Atheism. Atheism does not encourage goodness. Christianity does.

 

[UniChristian]

God is exist

thank u
UniChistian (com)

 

[salida]

So, if God was proven to exist according to your liking-you would still be an athiest?

 

[salida]

I would believe in God anyway because his holy spirit is in me. Thus, this is like saying what if you proved my husband doesn't exist-yet I see him all the time. As an athiest since you can't see it-it doesn't exist. But I know there is more than this physical world because I have had certain experiences that go beyond anything mental and/or material and I wasn't in an emotional state. My mind didn't trick me.

 

[LinuxUser]

Now before we start, this is purely speculative. I don't care what it would take to prove it, let's just say theoretically that it was proven.

I'm curious what people's reactions would be in such a situation; what would you do? Burn your bible, resist, assume it's a sham? I'm simply curious that's all.

Ken

kill myself. What would be the point of life

 

[salida]

(quote) “You know what God is really like..... a loving dad.
Any good parent disciplines a child not for their suffering, but for their good. If you are a parent you will no doubt know that lack of discipline breeds a child of little value, of little capacity to achieve anything of note in life.”

I have a loving dad. But I think he is a bit different:
*He would never torture me for having the audacity to love someone else’s dad.
*He would never want me to worship him, beg him for mercy, or grovel at his feet in a way that I wouldn’t even ask of my dog
*He would have stopped Hitler, Amin, Stalin, and a host of other evil people had he the ability to do so
*If he does something that I disagree with, he will gladly explain his actions and apologize if he were wrong.

(quote) “Finally, who decides which sin is worthy of judgment? Is it only the Hitler's would led to the death of million or is it the person that bullied another child at school and caused that child to become withdrawn and reclusive as an adult, having few friends and living a shattered life? Is it the Stalin's only or also the person that passes on sexually transmitted disease that untlimately causes another person to die of cervical cancer

Is the suffering of 10 000 000 more evil than the suffering of one...especially if you are that one? All evil is evil, all pain is pain and who decides what is worthy of judgement? I suppose as long as the suffering and pain we have caused others through lying, cheating and stealing is considered not worthy of judgment, then we are happy.[/font]”

(reply) Hitler and stalin should be more severely punished than the bully or the guy spreading disease. the deliberate killing and torture of millions is much worse than the pain and suffering of one or a few resulting from stupidity or poor decision making

I am not saying all sin isn’t worthy of judgment, I’m just saying eternal torture in a lake of fire isn’t fair judgment for 99% of all sins committed. Some sins are only worthy of a slap on the wrist, others more severe.

Ken

I have a loving dad. But I think he is a bit different:
1)*He would never torture me for having the audacity to love someone else’s dad.
Its goes beyond this; God is love and justice. Mankind has a fallen nature.
Are you a good person? www.livingwaters.com/good/
Can you keep the 10 commandments 100% of the time all the time? So, have you ever lied or steal something or break any of these commandments once in your life? If the answer is yes-than you are guilty.
We are all guilty. Only Jesus kept these. Also, if a doctor had just one cure for you to live would you tell him no?
2)*He would never want me to worship him, beg him for mercy, or grovel at his feet in a way that I wouldn’t even ask of my dog.
Your dad is a human not God. Beg for mercy? God doesn’t force people to repent-true love isn’t forced. If someone ignored you a thousand times throughout their whole life, then all of a sudden they show up at your house wanting to come in just to get comfort only but not wanting to be with you-would you let them in?
3)*He would have stopped Hitler, Amin, Stalin, and a host of other evil people had he the ability to do so. No, God doesn’t stop a man’s freewill-we aren’t robots. Wicked governments do this not God.One of these days He will stop evil forever at the second coming.
3)*If he does something that I disagree with, he will gladly explain his actions and apologize if he were wrong.
How do I get the image of God as imposing and angry out of my mind?
http://www.gotquestions.org/God-imposing.html
God gives men many chances
From one man he made every nation of men, so that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the time set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out to him, though he is not far from each one of us, Acts 17:26-27.
Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

Also, you mentioned versions of christianity. There are real christians and phoney ones-no actual versions. Christ decides who a christian is not men or a man. People do things in the name of christianity this doesn't mean they are a christian.
What Jesus says to hyprocrites:
Lu 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Lukewarm Church
http://www.christianexaminer.com/Articles/Articles%20Jun07/Art_Jun07_20.html
http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Lukewarm-American-Church&id=3112462
　
Are you a Real Christian or a Sunday Christian
http://www.rapture-soon.net/realchristian.html

Re 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

 

[Hentenza]

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[Ken-1122]

Salida (quote)
“So, if God was proven to exist according to your liking-you would still be an athiest?”

(reply) No!

(quote) “Are you a good person?”

(reply) Yes!

(quote) “Can you keep the 10 commandments 100% of the time all the time?

(reply) All 10? I wouldn’t even try! I only consider only about half of the 10 commandments as legitimate; the rest are Christian specific and because I am not Christian, they don’t apply to me.

(quote) “If someone ignored you a thousand times throughout their whole life, then all of a sudden they show up at your house wanting to come in just to get comfort only but not wanting to be with you-would you let them in?”

(reply) If somebody didn’t want to be with me, they wouldn’t want to come to my house unless they had a change of heart; under such conditions I would be willing to forgive them after an apology.

Ken

 

[berachah]

I have a loving dad. But I think he is a bit different:
*He would never torture me for having the audacity to love someone else’s dad.
*He would never want me to worship him, beg him for mercy, or grovel at his feet in a way that I wouldn’t even ask of my dog
*He would have stopped Hitler, Amin, Stalin, and a host of other evil people had he the ability to do so
*If he does something that I disagree with, he will gladly explain his actions and apologize if he were wrong.

* I think your understanding of God is way off. Man is free to choose his own destiny, God does not force us in any way. However man is bound and enslaved to the spiritual authorities he yields to.

If (for example) a person gives in to pornography it is essentially the yielding our will to that of a spirit of lust. Ultimately when that spirit gains enough authority in us, it begins to impact the way we perceive and treat women, and ultimately it may destroy any sexual pleasure we previously had. What God meant for good is destroyed and ruined. And that is true for most areas of our lives..

In contrast whenever we choose to yield areas of our life to God there is blessing and increase. God gives the instruction for the best way forward and man is free to choose.

*And He doesn't need us to grovel at His feet. Actually giving thanks and praising Him is mostly for our own wellbeing and gain. But even your natural father would enjoy it if you responded with thanks if he did something special for you.

*With regard to Hitler etc, these types of leaders were voted in by the people. How much authority was God given in those nations. Its always amazes me that people want nothing to do with God, they reject Him and His ways and replace Him with their own desires and plans and then accuse Him of the evil that follows. This cycle has happened from the beginning of history.

*If God does not speak to you, perhaps it is because you are not in a place to listen. God is Spirit and we are flesh and the Bible is clear on how to bridge that gap - only most people reject this offering out of hand.

Hitler and stalin should be more severely punished than the bully or the guy spreading disease. the deliberate killing and torture of millions is much worse than the pain and suffering of one or a few resulting from stupidity or poor decision making

I am not saying all sin isn’t worthy of judgment, I’m just saying eternal torture in a lake of fire isn’t fair judgment for 99% of all sins committed. Some sins are only worthy of a slap on the wrist, others more severe.
Ken

Indeed there are different levels of judgement and suffering and the Bible refers to this often. Just make sure you have a way of paying for the things you have done that you know have caused pain and suffering in the lives of others. If you dont have a solution for that, accept Christ and let him pay for your sins....

 

[Brenda Morgan]

kill myself. What would be the point of life

Aren't there things that you enjoy in life?
Are you waiting to die so you can be with Jesus?

 

[Ken-1122]

Barachah (quote) “If (for example) a person gives in to pornography it is essentially the yielding our will to that of a spirit of lust. Ultimately when that spirit gains enough authority in us, it begins to impact the way we perceive and treat women, and ultimately it may destroy any sexual pleasure we previously had. What God meant for good is destroyed and ruined. And that is true for most areas of our lives..”

(reply) Most who view pornography aren’t as sexually deranged as you are suggesting. There are plenty of “sins” that people commit that doesn’t harm themselves or others.

(quote) “And He doesn't need us to grovel at His feet. Actually giving thanks and praising Him is mostly for our own wellbeing and gain. But even your natural father would enjoy it if you responded with thanks if he did something special for you.”

(reply) “I’ve thanked my father plenty of times. But I’ve never done it in a way that disrespects or degrades myself in the process. My father loves me too much to allow such a thing,

(quote) “*With regard to Hitler etc, these types of leaders were voted in by the people.”

(reply) voted by the people or not, my father would have stopp0ed him anyway if he could

(quote) “If God does not speak to you, perhaps it is because you are not in a place to listen. God is Spirit and we are flesh and the Bible is clear on how to bridge that gap - only most people reject this offering out of hand.”

(reply) Why must I be in a certain place to hear him? Why must he have a gap to bridge? Why can’t he communicate to me in a way I can recognize and understand? This type of barrier does not exist when I speak to you? Why must things be so difficult with God?

(quote) “Indeed there are different levels of judgement and suffering and the Bible refers to this often. Just make sure you have a way of paying for the things you have done that you know have caused pain and suffering in the lives of others. If you dont have a solution for that, accept Christ and let him pay for your sins....”

(reply) when I’ve done someone wrong, I go that person and ask for forgiveness; I think that works best.

Ken

 

[berachah]

Most who view pornography aren’t as sexually deranged as you are suggesting. There are plenty of “sins” that people commit that doesn’t harm themselves or others.

I am simply making the point.
However the reality is that wherever we deny God authority in our lives we give the devil authority and the outcome of that is never for our gain.The fact that the harm and final outcome of our 'sin' is not known at the first yielding (to temptation) does not mean there is no harm in the sin. Rather it reveals God's continual endeavour to protect us and draw us back Him in spite of our straying. It's like eating sugary treats and chocolates; we are drawn to them effortlessly and they seem harmless enough...yet ultimately they impact our health.

“I’ve thanked my father plenty of times. But I’ve never done it in a way that disrespects or degrades myself in the process. My father loves me too much to allow such a thing,

God demands no such degradation. Men in reverence and awe of God choose to bow before Him. Jesus said the whole of the word of God is settled in this statement: Love God and love your fellow man as you love yourself. Hardly a demand for humiliation and degradation.

“*With regard to Hitler etc, these types of leaders were voted in by the people.”...

voted by the people or not, my father would have stopped him anyway if he could

If you teach your child how to respect the laws of the road, how to avoid a dangerous intersection of traffic, how not to cross the road at that intersection .......and he disobeys you and is injured by a car.....can he then turn around and say you are a bad father? That you are to be blamed because you did not protect him from his suffering? Of course the father could follow the child continously, and prevent him from doing what he has been instructed not to do, but then the child is slave to the father, without any freewill and God does not want slaves.

Why must I be in a certain place to hear him? Why must he have a gap to bridge? Why can’t he communicate to me in a way I can recognize and understand? This type of barrier does not exist when I speak to you? Why must things be so difficult with God?

God is holy and sin cannot enter into His presence. Through sin man has cut off the link he had to God from his birth. Each one of us choose the path of sin at some stage of our life and in so doing we cut off God. Through Jesus Christ, his death and resurrection, we have the opportunity to be reborn, that is have the original link with God re-established.

It is God's absolute desire and hope that we accept his outstreched hand and be reunited with Him now and for all eternity. Once we accept His truths we begin to see that God speaks to us in many ways and at every opportunity.

when I’ve done someone wrong, I go that person and ask for forgiveness; I think that works best.

So to avoid being hypocritical I'm sure you will agree that this principle should apply for all situations and elements of society. If someone murdered a member of your family would an apology then suffice....?