What would you as an annihilationist have said?

[Cormack]

I said some Christians believe in annihilation, that unbelievers will cease to exist after death. Then she said: "Like atheists believe happens to everyone?" I didn't know how to answer that. I finally said that those who will be destroyed will know exactly what they have missed out on. She took that answer well.

Putting my annihilationist cap on, it’s hard to bless people by the view pastorally if we also believed that the lost person has been or will be judged based upon their exact views on God at their last moment. If we’re certain they left us as an unbeliever, and we also rule out the possibility of post mortem conversion, then there are a great many comforts we’ve cut off.

The glass is half full in that we could assure your friend (at least) the pain her ex was experiencing in life doesn’t have to carry on forever, there’s an author of life but no author of forever pain, not to the annihilationist. There’s the end of pain if nothing else.

If we open up the door on doubt as to their ex’s thought life or to the possibility of post mortem conversion then there’s the comforting fact that nobody but God knows how the whole thing will shake out. God knows for certain and we can take comfort in people either choosing to sleep or to accept the gift of life from the author of life.

If we believe in more than just the finish line of an earthly life I’d remind your friend that the harshness of this world, so harsh as to cause people to take their own lives, that’s not emulated with the God of mercy, life and love…. though even then I feel the cap slipping.

“the dead know nothing” scripture once said, although that’s as dark and as depressing an idea for us who have always known something.

 

[Saint Steven]

Worship God.

You will worship God while your daughter burns in pointless agony? Possibly screaming for her mother to save her. Wow. (what's wrong with this picture?)

Saint Steven said: ↑
If you get to heaven and don't find your daughter there, what will you do?

 

[Hazelelponi]

You will worship God while your daughter burns in pointless agony? Possibly screaming for her mother to save her. Wow. (what's wrong with this picture?)

Saint Steven said: ↑
If you get to heaven and don't find your daughter there, what will you do?

I love and trust in God... if she be facing punishment, then God did not do so lightly or because He is evil, He did so because He is Holy and Just.

So just wow indeed. I will worship God.

 

[Saint Steven]

I love and trust in God... if she be facing punishment, then God did not do so lightly or because He is evil, He did so because He is Holy and Just.

So just wow indeed. I will worship God.

Congratulations. You are the most dedicated Damnationist I have ever met.

 

[zoidar]

I don't see room for either Damnationism or Annihilationism in that statement. Am I misunderstanding you?

What do you mean by "double outcome"?

I think you are misunderstanding. We are never to lose hope in a person, that is the left hand. At the same time we know only those that belong to Christ will be saved, that's the right hand. I don't let those two hands meet. That's the best way I can describe it.

Double outcome, saved and lost.

 

[Saint Steven]

We are never to lose hope in a person, that is the left hand.

What about those on the left who are in line to be annihilated? Is there still hope for them?

 

[zoidar]

What about those on the left who are in line to be annihilated? Is there still hope for them?

This becomes almost too theoretic to talk about. But if you at judgement end up with those who are to be destroyed, then there is no more hope.

 

[Saint Steven]

This becomes almost too theoretic to talk about. But if you at judgement end up with those who are to be destroyed, then there is no more hope.

There we go.
Now back to your OP question...

Why couldn't we be this frank and honest with someone that had lost a loved one?
Do we avoid being this frank and honest because it's inappropriate?
Why would God's true intentions with us in the afterlife be something that we couldn't be this frank and honest about? Are we ashamed?

 

[Hmm]

It's easy to see how people who believe in a God like this - either an executioner or a torturer - so often struggle with severe anxiety that can lead to a mental breakdown. It's a lot healthier as well as Biblical to believe in a God of, dare I say it, love.

 

[Cormack]

What about those on the left who are in line to be annihilated? Is there still hope for them?

The hope would be housed in our own ignorance surely. It’s just the raw hope that a certain person (almost always someone we know) will be spared. Though being an annihilationist there’s always the sober thought that someone is going to be annihilated, rather than entering into the Lords rest.

Are we ashamed?

I think some people are made to feel shame when they voice thoughts that they’ve always held on an intellectual level, but have rarely shared out in the open air.

I mean, Edward Fudge gives an awesome defence of annihilationism that could convince a Christian on a scriptural basis, but the Christian’s only reading from Fudge or watching him on YouTube, it’s not his own living idea out in the open air.

When he’s fully convinced and ready to share that thought openly, he gets to hear the internal monologue out loud, most often in the company of others.

That’s where an idea can cause shame, it’s not that the Christian is ashamed naturally, it’s just that the view is seemingly deficient or unattractive to either himself or his peers, and that cuts most of us deep.

It’s hard to try and comfort someone with annihilationism when the lost person they’re grieving over keeps ticking all of our lost cause boxes.

So the Christian isn’t exactly ashamed, but they’re constraint by things like tact and kindness and even morality, either their own or the morals of others making them feel inadequate in a social situation.

So they pull their punches, they try to exercise charity and resist the full weight of what they truly believe. Guarding either themselves or their conversation partner. It’s a toughie for them.

In some ways, living in a largely secular culture, it’s a toughie for every Christian.

 

[Saint Steven]

It's easy to see how people who believe in a God like this - either an executioner or a torturer - so often struggle with severe anxiety that can lead to a mental breakdown. It's a lot healthier as well as Biblical to believe in a God of, dare I say it, love.

The OP requested that we not use this thread to challenge Annihilationism.
So, I'm trying hard to stay on topic.

To add to my previous post, I would say, if there is something shameful about our gospel, maybe we have the wrong gospel.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

 

[zoidar]

There we go.
Now back to your OP question...

Why couldn't we be this frank and honest with someone that had lost a loved one?
Do we avoid being this frank and honest because it's inappropriate?
Why would God's true intentions with us in the afterlife be something that we couldn't be this frank and honest about? Are we ashamed?

I don't know what you mean. I was honest with this girl. One time she asked what I believed. I said I believe there is hope for him. I do believe that. More than that I can't say. Will I say to someone that suffers from cancer that he will die from it? No, I focus on hope. To say someone will be destroyed is more than we can say, because we don't know the outcome for this person.

 

[Hmm]

The OP requested that we not use this thread to challenge Annihilationism.
So, I'm trying hard to stay on topic

Oh okay, I jumped in at the end, so apologies to the OP. I think it's relevant to the OP to say though that if someone is radiating anxiety and depression rather than God's love and joy then whatever they say about God is not going to be very convincing or comforting.

 

[Saint Steven]

So they pull their punches, they try to exercise charity and resist the full weight of what they truly believe. Guarding either themselves or their conversation partner. It’s a toughie for them.

There it is.
They have to "resist the full weight of what they truly believe."
The full weight would be inappropriate. Why?

 

[Saint Steven]

I don't know what you mean. I was honest with this girl. One time she asked what I believed. I said I believe there is hope for him. I do believe that. More than that I can't say. Will I say to someone that suffers from cancer that he will die from it? No, I focus on hope. To say someone will be destroyed is more than we can say, because we don't know the outcome for this person.

Don't call yourself an Annihilationist then.

 

[zoidar]

Oh okay, I jumped in at the end, so apologies to the OP...

Don't worry about it!

 

[Cormack]

@Saint Steven

I think like @zoidar wrote though, it’s not a let’s prove or disprove the merits of annihilationism topic.

On a social level, proper annihilationists wouldn’t feel it’s inappropriate, they’re unashamed of their theology, but again, faint hearts, ya know. Sometimes the people they’re talking to can overwhelm them or even invoke a sense of protectiveness in the annihilationist.

They’d know it’s a tough pill to swallow and that shielding people from pain is sometimes the better road, rather than blasting them with the pure factz(!) of their theology.

 

[Saint Steven]

I don't know what you mean. I was honest with this girl. One time she asked what I believed. I said I believe there is hope for him. I do believe that.

It seems you shared a half-truth at best. Claiming there is hope is shielding her from what you really believe.

 

[zoidar]

Don't call yourself an Annihilationist then.

It sounds to me you are saying if we believe in annihilism then we must believe that those we don't know are saved will be annihilated. That's just not true.

 

[Saint Steven]

It sounds to me you are saying if we believe in annihilism then we must believe that those we don't know are saved will be annihilated. That's just not true.

Well, quite frankly, that is EXACTLY what it means.
Your "hope so" group is a mere sliver of a possibility.
When someone gets saved, it's obvious.