What would happen to the creation/evolution debate...

[Jonaitis]

Talk about a non sequitur! Jesus was the Son of God who lived, died and miraculously rose again to free of our sins. What does that have to do with Buddha?

What does evolution have to do with Christianity?

I have heard people claim they believe Jesus is another Buddha, that's why I used that example. I am suppose to say they are Christians, because they believe in a historical person named Jesus who did and taught certain things.

 

[pitabread]

I'm confused on what you are talking about. I'm just stating that Christians have compromised on many issues, not just the idea of human evolution.

Compromise appears to be in the eye of the beholder here.

 

[Jonaitis]

Compromise appears to be in the eye of the beholder here.

It isn't called "compromise" in the atheistic worldview, just a change to the better view in one's own eyes.

At least you are honest with your religious affiliation, there may be agnostics, but there is no true atheist.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

It is hard to answer your question, as my definition is different than yours.

I define what is "good" by anything in conformity to the revealed moral law of God.

So anyone who uses a different definition to your understanding of "revealed moral law" is wrong, but you won't provide your definition? Nice argument.

 

[Jonaitis]

So anyone who uses a different definition to your understanding of "revealed moral law" is wrong, but you won't provide your definition? Nice argument.

My own understanding? Ha.

 

[pitabread]

At least you are honest with your religious affiliation, there may be agnostics, but there is no true atheist.

The "no true Scotsman" argument doesn't play here. There are different definitions of atheism. Most atheists appear to adhere to the "weak" atheist version which is simply a disbelieve in a god or gods until otherwise demonstrated. Occasionally you'll run into a "strong" atheist, one who explicitly believes that a god or gods is a philosophical impossibility. In that sense, atheists do exist.

I tend to hold that position although my own belief is that my opinion on the existence of a supernatural being that created everything is irrelevant.

I do believe that if such a being did exist that they likely have zero interest in anything going on on this planet. And certainly not what goes on in people's bedrooms.

 

[Jonaitis]

The "no true Scotsman" argument doesn't play here. There are different definitions of atheism. Most atheists appear to adhere to the "weak" atheist version which is simply a disbelieve in a god or gods until otherwise demonstrated.

I tend to hold that position although my own belief is that my opinion on the existence of a supernatural being that created everything is irrelevant.

I do believe that if such a being did exist that they likely have zero interest in anything going on on this planet. And certainly not what goes on in people's bedrooms.

If you believe the existence of a supernatural being is irrelevant, why are you on here? When I was an get-in-your-face wannabe-agnostic/wannabe-Satanist, I didn't waste my time on these online forums. It seemed pretty pointless.

 

[pitabread]

If you believe the existence of a supernatural being is irrelevant, why are you on here?

Arguments and upvotes.

 

[Speedwell]

What does evolution have to do with Christianity?

Nothing.

I have heard people claim they believe Jesus is another Buddha, that's why I used that example. I am suppose to say they are Christians, because they believe in a historical person named Jesus who did and taught certain things.

Good for you. But it sounded like what you were insinuating was that those who don't agree with your interpretation of Genesis must believe that Jesus was just a man.

 

[Jonaitis]

Arguments and upvotes.

Eh, some sort of fun.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

My own understanding? Ha.

Are you saying I should be arguing against somebody else's understanding when addressing your post . I can see how that might provide entertainment for a short time

 

[Jonaitis]

Are you saying I should be arguing against somebody else's understanding when addressing your post . I can see how that might provide entertainment for a short time

How do you define "good"?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

How do you define "good"?

Not playing that game. I asked you for your definition as that's the one that's relevant.

 

[DamianWarS]

... if everyone was required to pass an introductory Biology (university-level Biology 101) course first?

My prediction: the debate mostly disappear for two reasons.

1) I suspect a lot of creationists wouldn't have the inclination to pass such a course. Most creationists in my experience little genuine interest in science.

2) Those who did pass would likely have a lot of misconceptions about basic biology and evolution cleared up in the first place. Given there is a correlation between understanding of evolution and acceptance, I suspect increased understanding would lead to a decrease in the numbers of creationists.

sounds like a strawman to me

 

[Mathetes66]

I also wouldn't get too excited about the uptick from 2017, since their 2019 poll has a +/- 4% margin of error.

Ah yes, the good 'ole fallback on the margin of error sleight of hand denial. Nice. Same margin in 2017 yet in 2019 with the same margin, IT INCREASED. You said it was continually going down in stats. I showed otherwise.

Even Dr. Dawkins admitted a spike upward of 30% IN BRITAIN for creationist beliefs, the stronghold of evolutionary theory & that from the younger 'educated' population. So you can rationalize away your denial of a legitimate increase rather than a decrease, whether USA or world. Cling to it however you wish.

"Personally, I'm not really a fan of the "god guiding evolution" part of their question since it's highly interpretive as to what exactly that is supposed to mean."

Doesn't matter if you are a fan or not or your opinion. The LATEST STATS stand in 2019 of 73% believing a supernatural being, God, was the initiator of the creation of the heavens & the earth--whether ex nihilo or guided the evolutionary process vs. 22% believing no god was involved at all, which it appears you do. (only USA stats). Again I showed stats on the world view as well. You are in the minority & still are.

But in terms of strict creationist beliefs (e.g. humans created out of thin air as opposed to evolving from prior ancestors), the 40% is where things sit.

Thanks for admitting the newest stats IS an increase & in Britain for the educated youth a dramatic increase, as even Dr. Dawkins admits. You must be better informed than he is it seems, to keep insisting on a steady decline.

Overall, belief in creationism has been steadily trending downward for the last decade+.

Still clinging to it, it seems. You keep flip flopping. Which is it, decrease, increase, then decrease, this is where it stands, etc....

But I will admit with you, according to eschatological predictions of the Lord Jesus Christ & the apostles & ancient Jewish prophets in the Holy Scriptures, there will be a DRAMATIC DECREASE before the return of the biblical Messiah, Jesus worldwide.

China is now the largest nation of Christians not the USA. The most highly educated population of Hong Kong is made up of many Christians believing in a Creator God who made the heavens & the earth, as the recent demonstrations have shown.

The Apostle Paul predicted a 'great falling away' in Christiandom before the final antichrist arrives on the scene, brokering a peace treaty in the Middle East. Many a US president has tried to do it & failed. But this 'one' will succeed.

Then will come the prophetic fulfillment of Psalm 2 & Proverbs 30 & the Lord Jesus Christ's return to the earth & the time of the great tribulation & then His kingdom established over the whole earth.

Psalm 2:1-12 Why do the nations rage & the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth set themselves & the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord & against His Anointed, saying, “Let us burst their bonds apart & cast away their cords from us.”

4He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord holds them in derision. Then He will speak to them in His wrath & terrify them in His anger, saying, “As for Me, I have set My King on Zion, my holy hill.” I will tell of the decree:

The Lord said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you. Ask of Me & I will make the nations your heritage & the ends of the earth your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron & dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”

10Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear & rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest He be angry & you perish in the way, for His wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in Him.

Proverbs 30:4 Who has ascended to heaven & come down? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has wrapped up the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name & what is His Son’s name? Surely you know!

And the ancient Jewish prophet Daniel, government advisor in 2 world empires, predicted the same. We Christians will win in the end. You should join the winning side & repent & believe the gospel message concerning the Lord & Savior, Jesus the Messiah!

Daniel 7:13,14,21,22, “I was watching in the night visions & behold, One like the Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days & they brought Him near before Him.

14Then to Him was given dominion & glory & a kingdom, that all peoples, nations & languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away & His kingdom the one which shall not be destroyed.

I was watching & the same horn was making war against the saints & PREVAILING AGAINST THEM, UNTIL the Ancient of Days came & a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High & the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

Then the kingdom & dominion & the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom & all dominions shall serve & obey Him.’

 

[Bungle_Bear]

China is now the largest nation of Christians not the USA. The most highly educated population of Hong Kong is made up of many Christians believing in a Creator God who made the heavens & the earth, as the recent demonstrations have shown.

Evidence please.

 

[Mathetes66]

"Evidence please."

Thanks for asking. Need more? (from sources all over the world)


Christianity in China - Wikipedia

China on course to become 'world's most Christian nation' within 15 years

The rise of Christianity in China | Financial Times

China will become the most Christian nation in the world | God Reports

Christianity’s Growth in China and Its Contributions to Freedoms

Christianity in China

Chinese Christians find God and religious refuge in Kenya - CNN

Christianity’s ‘explosive growth’ in China – and the official pushback

With Hymns and Prayers, Christians Help Drive Hong Kong’s Protests

The Fate of Hong Kong’s Christians | Alessandra Bocchi

A Surprising Tie That Binds Hong Kong's Protest Leaders: Faith

 

[SkyWriting]

As written.

i.e. Scripture is Truth. Yahuweh Knew and Breathed this in His Word thousands of years ago.

You can't ignore scripture though:
Psalm 8
3 When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place,

Nehemiah 9
6 “You are the Lord, you alone. You have made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them; and you preserve all of them; and the host of heaven worships you.

Psalm 19
To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David.
The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.

Deuteronomy 33
15 With the finest produce of the ancient mountains and the abundance of the everlasting hills,

Genesis 49
26 The blessings of your father are mighty beyond the blessings of my parents, up to the bounties of the everlasting hills.

 

[Skreeper]

Ah yes, the good 'ole fallback on the margin of error sleight of hand denial. Nice. Same margin in 2017 yet in 2019 with the same margin, IT INCREASED. You said it was continually going down in stats. I showed otherwise.

Even Dr. Dawkins admitted a spike upward of 30% IN BRITAIN for creationist beliefs, the stronghold of evolutionary theory & that from the younger 'educated' population. So you can rationalize away your denial of a legitimate increase rather than a decrease, whether USA or world. Cling to it however you wish.



Doesn't matter if you are a fan or not or your opinion. The LATEST STATS stand in 2019 of 73% believing a supernatural being, God, was the initiator of the creation of the heavens & the earth--whether ex nihilo or guided the evolutionary process vs. 22% believing no god was involved at all, which it appears you do. (only USA stats). Again I showed stats on the world view as well. You are in the minority & still are.



Thanks for admitting the newest stats IS an increase & in Britain for the educated youth a dramatic increase, as even Dr. Dawkins admits. You must be better informed than he is it seems, to keep insisting on a steady decline.



Still clinging to it, it seems. You keep flip flopping. Which is it, decrease, increase, then decrease, this is where it stands, etc....

But I will admit with you, according to eschatological predictions of the Lord Jesus Christ & the apostles & ancient Jewish prophets in the Holy Scriptures, there will be a DRAMATIC DECREASE before the return of the biblical Messiah, Jesus worldwide.

China is now the largest nation of Christians not the USA. The most highly educated population of Hong Kong is made up of many Christians believing in a Creator God who made the heavens & the earth, as the recent demonstrations have shown.

The Apostle Paul predicted a 'great falling away' in Christiandom before the final antichrist arrives on the scene, brokering a peace treaty in the Middle East. Many a US president has tried to do it & failed. But this 'one' will succeed.

Then will come the prophetic fulfillment of Psalm 2 & Proverbs 30 & the Lord Jesus Christ's return to the earth & the time of the great tribulation & then His kingdom established over the whole earth.

Psalm 2:1-12 Why do the nations rage & the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth set themselves & the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord & against His Anointed, saying, “Let us burst their bonds apart & cast away their cords from us.”

4He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord holds them in derision. Then He will speak to them in His wrath & terrify them in His anger, saying, “As for Me, I have set My King on Zion, my holy hill.” I will tell of the decree:

The Lord said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you. Ask of Me & I will make the nations your heritage & the ends of the earth your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron & dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”

10Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear & rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest He be angry & you perish in the way, for His wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in Him.

Proverbs 30:4 Who has ascended to heaven & come down? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has wrapped up the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name & what is His Son’s name? Surely you know!

And the ancient Jewish prophet Daniel, government advisor in 2 world empires, predicted the same. We Christians will win in the end. You should join the winning side & repent & believe the gospel message concerning the Lord & Savior, Jesus the Messiah!

Daniel 7:13,14,21,22, “I was watching in the night visions & behold, One like the Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days & they brought Him near before Him.

14Then to Him was given dominion & glory & a kingdom, that all peoples, nations & languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away & His kingdom the one which shall not be destroyed.

I was watching & the same horn was making war against the saints & PREVAILING AGAINST THEM, UNTIL the Ancient of Days came & a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High & the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

Then the kingdom & dominion & the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom & all dominions shall serve & obey Him.’

It's hard for people to let go of wishful thinking and fantasies if they bring them comfort.

Life is cruel and hard. I can understand why people prefer to believe in some deity that loves them unconditionally and that they will see their loved ones in the afterlife.

 

[pitabread]

sounds like a strawman to me

How so?