What to do with unapologetic "Cafeteria Catholics?"

[Metanoia02]

You, sir, are a true Catholic. God bless you and keep you. In a real way I'm envious of you. I wish I could trust the church the way you do. I don't. The reasoning ,poor as it may be, I have applied to some doctrines and my experience of humans and my reading of the Scriptures has made me sceptical of Catholicism.

I will take that as a compliment. As a convert I got tired of figuring out what everything meant. I finally realized that it wasn't all up to me to figure it out. Christ left His Church to guide me to salvation. Although it is made up of humans it points to a divine life we are to have in Christ. Once I put my faith in Christ and His Church I no longer had to struggle endlessly with faith or doctrine. Submission to God is the greatest freedom a man can know. Running about as if I can figure all this out by myself was a prison I could never escape. Thank God for the Church.

 

[gentlestorm]

Yes, that is why I believe in Purgatory. We receive Justice and Mercy all at the same time.

Precisely! So how can some human (Pope or doctrine) wipe out the natural consequences of our actions?
If I steal something it needs to be paid for somehow AND I need to learn the wrong of it INSTINCTIVELY.
There can be no remission of that punishment without ridding me of the GOD given lesson.

 

[gentlestorm]

I will take that as a compliment. As a convert I got tired of figuring out what everything meant. I finally realized that it wasn't all up to me to figure it out. Christ left His Church to guide me to salvation. Although it is made up of humans it points to a divine life we are to have in Christ. Once I put my faith in Christ and His Church I no longer had to struggle endlessly with faith or doctrine. Submission to God is the greatest freedom a man can know. Running about as if I can figure all this out by myself was a prison I could never escape. Thank God for the Church.

I did mean it as a complement.
You are submitting to an entity that claims your total allegiance when it says things that go against (my) God given reason.
I would submit too if some of it wasn't so glaringly tilted.

 

[Da_Funkey_Gibbon]

Precisely! So how can some human (Pope or doctrine) wipe out the natural consequences of our actions?
If I steal something it needs to be paid for somehow AND I need to learn the wrong of it INSTINCTIVELY.
There can be no remission of that punishment without ridding me of the GOD given lesson.

Well, as I said before, the natural consquence of our actions is hell. You really wanna go there?

You certainly don't learn any lessons in purgatory, at least none that you wouldn't learn anyway in heaven. Your pilgrim live is over as soon as you die.

 

[Da_Funkey_Gibbon]

I did mean it as a complement.
You are submitting to an entity that claims your total allegiance when it says things that go against (my) God given reason.
I would submit too if some of it wasn't so glaringly tilted.

Human reason is fallible. Remember that.

 

[gentlestorm]

Human reason is fallible. Remember that.

Precisely my point.

 

[Da_Funkey_Gibbon]

Funny that it should seem glaringly tilted.

One thing I notice with some people in their criticism of the Catholic church is that it is never just one issue that everyone has a problem with. People from different background accuse some parts of catholic doctrine to be tilted, while applauding some other parts - and the parts that get applauded are very often wildly different for different people.

Which kinda heads the whole fallibility of human reason home.

 

[ScottBot]

The following link is to a recent thread I started on masturbation. (Hold your snickers). However, the topic quickly spun off to become a debate about a Catholic's faithfulness to the magisterium. "NotHardcore," a Catholic girl, unapologetically rejects the Church's teaching on masturbation and other, unspecified issues. Scroll down to about post #65 for the beginning of this conversation.

http://www.christianforums.com/t4131970-the-m-word-masturbation.html&page=3

I'm flabbergasted. I just don't get it. I have no problem with people disagreeing with the Church or struggling with this-or-that doctrine, but WHY do people call themselves Catholic if they have no intention of, you know, BEING Catholic. I hate these conversations because there's no way around sounding like the arrogant, narrow-minded, bigoted enforcer-of-doctrine. I'm not! I'm a fallible hypocrite, too, but the difference is I believe that words have meanings. I can SAY I'm Emporer of the Universe, but does that make me one?

I become completely unglued in these conversations because, let's face it, it's like discovering a traitor in the White House. How would you all deal with someone who has no intention of living as a Catholic, but remains Catholic?

(Incidentally, way back in college, I came across a girl who said she was going to become a religious education director so she could "change the Church from the inside." Back then I was even less prepared. Where in the world do these supremely arrogant CINOs come from?)

Remember them in your prayers.

 

[newbebe]

What to do with unapologetic "Cafeteria Catholics?

Send them to the back of the lunch line!!

On the serious side: What does this mean and where did it come from?

"Offer mortifications for the conversion of their soul".

Thanks ..God Bless...Kim

To offer penance for them.

Offering penance comes down to us from the apostles. Ever since the beginning Christians have believed that we can do penance for ourselves and others and offer that sacrifice up in union with Christ’s sacrifice on the cross for reparation, conversion, and sanctification. We can “make up for what is lacking in the body of Christ,” as Paul put it.

 

[MikeK]

We can “make up for what is lacking in the body of Christ,” as Paul put it.

Paul believed that something was lacking in the body of Christ?

 

[Da_Funkey_Gibbon]

Paul believed that something was lacking in the body of Christ?

The Church is the body of Christ is this context.

There is a heck of a lot lacking in the Church.

 

[Fantine]

If Churches only admitted saints to their altars, they would be far emptier than they are today.

If I am troubled at all by doubts or disagreements I might have with official Catholic positions, I comfort myself by thinking about how uncharitable those who deem themselves to be more perfect than the doubters are....

 

[QuantaCura]

If Churches only admitted saints to their altars, they would be far emptier than they are today.

If I am troubled at all by doubts or disagreements I might have with official Catholic positions, I comfort myself by thinking about how uncharitable those who deem themselves to be more perfect than the doubters are....

No one conscious of grave sin is allowed to approach the altar--it's a sacrilege. Obstinate disagreement over certain doctrines is such a situation that you should not approach the altar. The American bishops are releasing a statement soon to remind us of this timeless fact. Instead of saying it's more virtuous to approach the altar in such a state, we should make a sacramental confession of our faults before approaching the altar.

This applies to all of us, whether our sin is murder, missing Mass, heresy (obstinate doubt), use of contraception, robbery, lust, dishonor of parents, oppressing the poor, or any other grave sin.

 

[holyorders]

If Churches only admitted saints to their altars, they would be far emptier than they are today.

If I am troubled at all by doubts or disagreements I might have with official Catholic positions, I comfort myself by thinking about how uncharitable those who deem themselves to be more perfect than the doubters are....

Again with the self-percieved inferiority complex. How do you get away with your flawless and infallible insights on the lives of others? Your evidence of your "more perfectness than thou" comes from the fruit of your baseless accusations.


The old Buddhist proverb is true:

'When you point your finger at someone there is always four other fingers pointing back at you'

 

[MikeK]

This applies to all of us, whether our sin is murder, missing Mass, heresy (obstinate doubt), use of contraception, robbery, lust, dishonor of parents, oppressing the poor, or any other grave sin.

What exactly is this obstinate doubt that you speak of? There are Church teachings that I have studdies and do not believe. Shall I refrain from the Eucharist?

 

[gentlestorm]

No one conscious of grave sin is allowed to approach the altar--it's a sacrilege. Obstinate disagreement over certain doctrines is such a situation that you should not approach the altar. The American bishops are releasing a statement soon to remind us of this timeless fact. Instead of saying it's more virtuous to approach the altar in such a state, we should make a sacramental confession of our faults before approaching the altar.

This applies to all of us, whether our sin is murder, missing Mass, heresy (obstinate doubt), use of contraception, robbery, lust, dishonor of parents, oppressing the poor, or any other grave sin.

What the heck is 'obstinate doubt'. If it's doubt it's doubt. If it's obstinate it's pride.
According to you I would not be able to go to communion. I agree with you and haven't gone.
It seems I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I sure as heck don't want to be doubting.

 

[Fantine]

Again with the self-percieved inferiority complex. How do you get away with your flawless and infallible insights on the lives of others? Your evidence of your "more perfectness than thou" comes from the fruit of your baseless accusations.


The old Buddhist proverb is true:

'When you point your finger at someone there is always four other fingers pointing back at you'

Taken from earlier posts on this thread:

"Hang 'em from the yardarm"

"Send them back to the lunchline"

"They're like 'traitors in the White House.'"

Well, it took me less than a minute to find those sterling examples of orthodox charity.....

And you were saying?

 

[holyorders]

Taken from earlier posts on this thread:

"Hang 'em from the yardarm"

"Send them back to the lunchline"

"They're like 'traitors in the White House.'"

Well, it took me less than a minute to find those sterling examples of orthodox charity.....

And you were saying?

It is both the responsibilty of YOU and THEM to treat one another well.

Even your signature gives testimony to this.

Is it not the sin nature of us all that is to blame? And not a particular stance.

 

[Metanoia02]

Taken from earlier posts on this thread:

"Hang 'em from the yardarm"

"Send them back to the lunchline"

"They're like 'traitors in the White House.'"

Well, it took me less than a minute to find those sterling examples of orthodox charity.....

And you were saying?

As far as my quote:"Hang 'em from the yardarm"

It was a freaking joke!

 

[NDIrish]

As far as my quote:"Hang 'em from the yardarm"

It was a freaking joke!

Come on...we thought you were serious!