What to do with narcissistic people

Josheb

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So this should help that then:

The Three Subtypes of Narcissistic Personality Disorder ...
www.psychologytoday.com › blog › culture-shrink › the-three-subty...

Jun 12, 2019 - Narcissistic personality disorder's wide clinical variability may reflect three ... subtypes, with varying degrees of clinical severity and prognosis.

Learn about the 6 types of narcissists (below)—and which you should absolutely avoid.

1. The toxic narcissist
2. The psychopathic narcissist
3. The closet narcissist
4. The exhibitionist narcissist
5. The bullying narcissist
6. The seducer narcissist
Much better. Now factor in the reality the incidence rate among random samples range from zero to 6.2 and overall incidence is between one-half and 1 percent of the population. That means in a congregation of 300 people maybe three of them are clinical narcissists at most. A bad congregation might at worst have 18 in 300.

A much greater percentage of them will have suffered abuse or trauma. That means 150-180 members of that congregation are likely to have narcissistic wounds and have selfish, ego-centric, and narcissistic behaviors. No one will find 150 narcissists in a single congregation of 300. It's not likely anyone will find 18. NPDs do not congregate.

Mistakenly thinking those with a history of narcissistic wounds are all narcissists will exacerbate the problem, not help.
 
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Josheb

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I have (I believe)a narcissist as an in law so I have had to strengthen boundaries tighter than I would like and be much more forward in expressing myself than I’m normally comfortable with. I do find with much interaction you get trapped by them publicly so better off biting my tongue.
Is your in-law a believer in Christ?

In most cases what non-narcs perceive as narcs are simply ego-centric or selfish people who act that way as a consequence of abuse or trauma, not a clinical narcissistic personality disorder. The solution lies in maintaining healthy boundaries. That first means having a good sense of self-identity because the narcs prey on any deficits. The next step is to identify what is and isn't permitted for you. In other words, "Please do not use name-calling or label me in any derisive way," is an objectively verifiable standard that any two people can agree upon. "If I am called names or labelled in a derisive manner then I will ask you to leave. If I am at your place I will leave myself, and if we're out together and I'm driving then I will take you home." That is a boundary. Not all boundaries have to overtly stated but generally speaking boundaries work best when you and others both know what tcan and cannot be expected.

Most narcs won't tolerate that. They won't associate with those they cannot manipulate. They'll make you out to be the problem, evil man that you are, and they'll ignore you with disdain. Problem solved.

But these kinds of boundaries and the thinking these situations necessitate can lead to legalism in you, Nig, so it's important to stay personally healthy and in healthy relationships. Too many or too rigid boundaries beget legalism. So not only do I recomend setting boundaries to limit exposure (frequency or intensity) to narcs and participation in healthy fellowship, but I would encourage you to read something like Dietrich Bonhoeffer's "Life Together." I'll springboard off of something stated in your post, the "better off biting my tongue."

”Often we combat our evil thoughts most effectively if we absolutely refuse to allow them to be expressed in words. It is certain that the spirit of self-justification can be overcome only by the Spirit of grace, nevertheless, isolated thoughts of judgment can be curbed and smothered by never allowing them the right to be uttered, except as a confession of sin… He who holds his tongue in check controls both mind and body (Jms. 3). Thus it is a decisive rule of every Christian fellowship that each individual is prohibited from saying much that occurs to him… to speak about a brother covertly is forbidden, even under the cloak of help and good will; for it is precisely in this guise that the spirit of hatred among brothers always creeps in when it is seeking to create mischief.”

“Where this discipline of the tongue is practiced right from the beginning, each individual will make a matchless discovery. He will be able to cease from constantly scrutinizing the other person, judging him, condemning him, putting him in his particular place where he can gain ascendancy over him and thus doing violence to him as a person. Now he can allow the brother to exist as a completely free person, as God made him to be. His view expands and, to his amazement, for the first time he sees, shining above his brethren, the richness of God’s creative glory. God did not make this person as I would have made him. He did not give him to me as a brother for me to dominate and control, but in order that I might find above him the Creator. Now the other person, in the freedom with which he was created, becomes the occasion for joy, whereas before he was only a nuisance and an affliction. God does not will that I should fashion the other person according to my image; rather in his very freedom from me God made this person in His image. I can never know beforehand how God’s image should appear in others. That image always manifests a completely new and unique form that comes solely from God’s free and sovereign creation”


There are many other books written with similar themes but Bonhoeffer's is a good one.

The NPDs and BPDs will take themselves out of the game if you apply healthy boundaries. Those with egocentric symptoms consequent to a history of abuse or trauma, conversely, will benefit from your boundaries, grow, and help you grow in patience, kindness, compassion, etc. Do you think it was easy living with Peter, or Paul, or Mary of Magdala? God saw fit to record the flaws in Peter and Paul so that we might understand.
 
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Billy UK

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QUOTE="Nig, post: 74804447, member: 313381"]this speaks to me in regards to the fact that I’ve lived in and practiced the same myself and when engaging with them I’m tempted to function in their bickering manipulative ways.[/QUOTE]

I find it difficult to be around narcisists as I recognise I'm still somewhat narcisistic and selfish myself. Narcisism is at its core self love and through self seeking it seeks its own love and happiness and wellbeing at the expense of others but at various deceptive levels and extremes.

That's why when people say I love you mostly they mean I need you for my own happiness and comfort and wellbeing I need to recieve your love. Test someone and see and say why do you love this person and see that mostly their reply is based upon how this person provides love or happiness or comfort for them.

That's why its difficult to be around narcissists at times as we are not willing or are unable to love them at our own expense due to not possessing the power of a self sacrificial love that is not contingent upon recieving love in order to have the power to give it. Obviously wisdom at the same time is needed as if you allow yourself to be manipulated and feed something demonic in them this is not going to ultimately help them but mostly we as humans can't be kind to those we consider evil and unthankful.

Luke 6:35 (KJV)

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

That's why the love of God is superior to human love as Jesus was kind and loving to evil and unthankful people without needing love from them in order to have the power to provide it. He came and served and loved people who nailed him to a cross and spat on him while he was dying for them on a cross in self sacrificial love.
 
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Nig

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Why is it not godly to say no to clear manipulation?

I think the lines are often not clear as the narcissist will abuse our attachments to clear teachings of Jesus to get what they want. The narcissist can be superficially charming; it’s not a relationship where’s honesty is valued and you know where you stand. Complicated, and they will abuse and use the complications.
 
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Nig

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QUOTE="Nig, post: 74804447, member: 313381"]this speaks to me in regards to the fact that I’ve lived in and practiced the same myself and when engaging with them I’m tempted to function in their bickering manipulative ways.

I find it difficult to be around narcisists as I recognise I'm still somewhat narcisistic and selfish myself. Narcisism is at its core self love and through self seeking it seeks its own love and happiness and wellbeing at the expense of others but at various deceptive levels and extremes.

That's why when people say I love you mostly they mean I need you for my own happiness and comfort and wellbeing I need to recieve your love. Test someone and see and say why do you love this person and see that mostly their reply is based upon how this person provides love or happiness or comfort for them.

That's why its difficult to be around narcissists at times as we are not willing or are unable to love them at our own expense due to not possessing the power of a self sacrificial love that is not contingent upon recieving love in order to have the power to give it. Obviously wisdom at the same time is needed as if you allow yourself to be manipulated and feed something demonic in them this is not going to ultimately help them but mostly we as humans can't be kind to those we consider evil and unthankful.

Luke 6:35 (KJV)

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

That's why the love of God is superior to human love as Jesus was kind and loving to evil and unthankful people without needing love from them in order to have the power to provide it. He came and served and loved people who nailed him to a cross and spat on him while he was dying for them on a cross in self sacrificial love.[/QUOTE]

yes they are Christians and externally appear very strong which has its own superficial charm.

They have a strong relationship with the bible but as I’ve discovered the narrative cannot be challenged. I’ve tried approaching with scripture and they won’t answer with scripture. The evidence they claim is their own knowledge rather than directly approaching scripture. They fail for me the test that truth is always approachable.
 
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SkyWriting

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Much better. Now factor in the reality the incidence rate among random samples range from zero to 6.2 and overall incidence is between one-half and 1 percent of the population. That means in a congregation of 300 people maybe three of them are clinical narcissists at most. A bad congregation might at worst have 18 in 300.

A much greater percentage of them will have suffered abuse or trauma. That means 150-180 members of that congregation are likely to have narcissistic wounds and have selfish, ego-centric, and narcissistic behaviors. No one will find 150 narcissists in a single congregation of 300. It's not likely anyone will find 18. NPDs do not congregate.

Mistakenly thinking those with a history of narcissistic wounds are all narcissists will exacerbate the problem, not help.

Did anybody suggest there were more?

They are often leaders, so everybody knows a handful.
 
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SkyWriting

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Christianity also says we are all equally fallen broken beings that have no way to fix ourselves and are completely dependent upon the Grace of God just to be forgiven for our depravity. Just about the most contradictory message a narcissist could hear. We are not, any of us, special individuals but we are all equally impotent and equally depraved. We may well be unique but we remain each equally unworthy so the fact that God loves every one of us anyway would not actually seem to be an attractive message to one that sees oneself as superior and extra special.
And yet the priesthood and church hierarchy are attractive.
 
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Nig

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And yet the priesthood and church hierarchy are attractive.

The issue here is narcissistic people are incapable of truth in their inward parts and lying long term doesn’t raise any issues. A pedo is capable of marrying someone for the purpose of having a child that they can later abuse. Having no conscience is no issue to some people so having a captive forgiving audience at your disposal for the price of lying about what you believe is cheap.
 
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SkyWriting

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Yes, I will find the op at post #1. What I won't find there is you answering the question asked.
What is the topic of this op?

Check post #1. Look for the sentence with the question mark "?"
 
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Amittai

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I find it difficult to be around narcisists as I recognise I'm still somewhat narcisistic and selfish myself. ...

That's why its difficult to be around narcissists at times as we are not willing or are unable to love them at our own expense due to not possessing the power of a self sacrificial love that is not contingent upon recieving love in order to have the power to give it. Obviously wisdom at the same time is needed as if you allow yourself to be manipulated and feed something demonic in them this is not going to ultimately help them but mostly we as humans can't be kind to those we consider evil and unthankful.

Luke 6:35 (KJV)

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

That's why the love of God is superior to human love as Jesus was kind and loving to evil and unthankful people without needing love from them in order to have the power to provide it. He came and served and loved people who nailed him to a cross and spat on him while he was dying for them on a cross in self sacrificial love.

yes they are Christians and externally appear very strong which has its own superficial charm.

They have a strong relationship with the bible but as I’ve discovered the narrative cannot be challenged. I’ve tried approaching with scripture and they won’t answer with scripture. The evidence they claim is their own knowledge rather than directly approaching scripture. They fail for me the test that truth is always approachable.

Nig, please be VERY cautious on several grounds:

- the extra mile in your OP is about Roman life. The law was, a soldier could require anyone to carry his pack one mile. If he wanted you to do more, he got severely punished (barring corruption or favouritism). Offering the extra mile is literally CHEEKY - inviting him to land himself in it.

- offering the other cheek is that in the culture, to strike both cheeks was highly demeaning beyond all call, i.e you are inviting them to degrade themselves more than they are degrading you.

Therefore your firmness in boundaries IS PRECISELY turning the other cheek!

- I've known clergy and self-appointed lay "authorities" even misuse Scripture against me and don't claim to be giving their own view like you describe. It requires thorough Scriptural insight! God's command in both Old & New Testaments is that we don't stunt the growth of our fellow.

In my case we weren't related but over the years their vague wheedling over regular attendance conflicted with my desire to attend less and dispense with certain kinds of proceedings. When I told them this I got shouted at so I had to make the clean break entirely.

Therefore firmness over boundaries IS the only way and you are right the pain from the effort is intense!

Try these:

echo.me.uk - Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Narcissistic Personality Disorder | Personality Disorders

Does “turn the other cheek” mean that Christians are to be doormats?

(the exact label isn't important, the way traits affect interaction are what's important)
 
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