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What to do with narcissistic people

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by Nig, Mar 15, 2020.

  1. Nig

    Nig Newbie

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    I have had and do have dealings with narcissistic people on a regular basis.

    i recognise in myself certain narcissistic traits (inflated self importance, manipulative behaviour) but I think the fact that I’m aware of them means I’m maybe on a spectrum of dysfunction rather than actually narcissistic.

    It seems to me that the disease of narcissism is you don’t have a disease so repentance is difficult to find.

    i feel certain Christian teachings maybe promote narcissism (I’m a special child of God etc) The nature of faith seems to exclude conversations about different points of view. It seems to me that when the truth turns up on our doorstep the first thing we want to do is kill it. I think we have to get over ourselves a bit.

    Is it reasonable, biblical and Christ like to have boundaries set in place where dealing with individuals that have narcissistic tendencies? At what point do we cease to follow Christ when he says if someone asks us to go a mile we should go with them two.

    The problem I see here is going with them two miles reinforces their perception that they are special and the world exists for their benefit. It’s kinda like feeding their sin (hope I’m not just using this as a reason to not have compassion)

    narcissists seem to be able to sniff out and manipulate your guilt and your desire to be generous for their own ends whilst nothing seems to shift in them. They constantly test out your boundaries to see if they can extend their reach.

    I think it’s one of the reasons why we see a lot of pedo activity in the church as individuals that practice such have to be narcissistic to some level; they search out environments where they can practice a narcissistic lifestyle with people that will forgive them 70x7. It’s like a narcissistic paradise.

    My wife and I love to be generous accepting and kind but I feel that it’s not enough and we need good boundaries and to speak the truth in love to narcissistic people.

    The simplest way of finding them is the use of the word No. I teach my children in relationships (romantic specifically but also generally) to take notice of how people receive the word no, also to see how they receive the word no.

    Having experienced manipulation a lot in my life I feel myself saying no to people when I feel like they are manipulating my emotions to get me to engage with their controlling ways. I don’t feel like this is a godly solution either so now I’m concentrating on determining in my heart what it is that I’m prepared to give and giving that despite their manipulation and despite their trying to get more by testing the boundaries. I feel this is a better road.

    What are everybody else’s thoughts? I’m kinda hyper sensitive to this behaviour so I may not see it all straight.

    PS; first post in a few years, hopefully more to come......
     
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  2. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "Wise as serpents, innocent as doves". The church needs to know that love does not tolerate sin. It's not loving to let your child dissect the cat while it's still alive. If people are controlling, selfish and manipulating, they need to be called out. I was a member of a church that was destroyed by an individual like that. He drove a wedge between the pastor and everyone else. Almost everyone left.
     
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  3. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Your analysis is dead on accurate. They might not ever change.
    Here is a podcast from a brilliant specialist on the subject.
    Don’t You Know Who I Am?
    A Deep Dive Into The Mind of A Narcissist Featuring Dr. Ramani Durvasula - Genius Network Episode #140


    Here’s a glance at what you’ll learn from Dr. Ramani in this episode:

    • Why she focused her research on Narcissism versus other areas of mental health.
    • The differences between Narcissism (there are 5 types), Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), Psychopathy, and Sociopathy.
    • Why personal development “gurus” with the biggest followings could be the most dangerous and damaging.
    • How to identify if you or someone you know is a narcissist (and why a narcissist will likely never have true intimacy).
    • Exactly what to do if you’re in a relationship with a narcissist such as a significant other, family member, colleague, etc.
    • The importance of boundaries, ‘radical acceptance’ and ‘realistic expectations’ when it comes to narcissists.
    • Why Dr. Ramani calls Narcissism “The Second Hand Smoke of Mental Illness” (and what to do to avoid becoming “sick”).
    • Narcissistic Supply: What you need to understand about narcissists to save yourself headaches and heartaches.
    • The three paths children tend to go down when they are raised by a narcissistic parent or parents.
    • The connection between Narcissism, Corrective Emotional Experiences, and Sensory Integration.
    • How to turn knowledge into healthy boundaries so you stay sane in the throes of a narcissist.
    • Why severing ties with a narcissist (even if they are your parent) could potentially save your life.
    • The link between narcissism and addiction (What Dr. Ramani discovered working with rehab centers).
    • How consumerism, materialism, and social media have bred more incivility in place of empathy.
    • The 2 parts to forgiveness almost everyone overlooks (PLUS: Why a narcissist views forgiveness as PERMISSION).
    • Dr. Ramani shares her thoughts on the Five-Factor Model and the HEXACO Personality Inventory.
    • The difference between pure Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) and Narcissistic BPD.
    • Flying Monkeys: The ONE THING you should do when a narcissist turns other people against you.
    • * 3 simple steps anyone can take to positively influence young people affected by narcissism.
    You can also find video's with Dr. Ramani here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
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  4. Akita Suggagaki

    Akita Suggagaki Well-Known Member

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    Like electing them president?
     
  5. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We're all special to God in our own special way!
     
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  6. Nig

    Nig Newbie

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    Yep seen it all happen, problem is I feel that the church has accepted often the tools used by narcissist’s (guilt and shame) to get the behaviour set they desire. Makes it difficult to call out stuff when there is a fine line of behaviour.

    i kinda look at it this way; when I came to Jesus in my early 20s I was accepted into families and they taught me some social skills of how to live in families. I learned to be a part of what was going on; not to let the world revolve around me. In simple terms I learnt to do the dishes rather than be served.

    Part of narcissistic behaviour is reflective; if they’re accusing you of something it’s because they’re doing it to you; you can be sure of it....

    I watched a narcissist drive apart my spiritual family and my natural family. I think I have a narcissistic in law now as well. Plus someone whom we are ministering to. You know it’s like they attract the negative attention that engages with sympathy to get their ends met. They have shallow relationships but don’t care as their desires are being filled in other ways.
     
  7. Tra Phull

    Tra Phull Well-Known Member

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    Remember what Zeus said to Narcissus:

    "Watch yourself."
     
  8. Anthony2019

    Anthony2019 A work in progress. Being moulded by the Potter! Supporter

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    Being firm but kind....
     
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  9. Billy UK

    Billy UK Well-Known Member

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    Ask someone why they love a person and usually the reply is based upon how that person fulfils their need. The Human I love you is quite narcissistic as it is usually dependent upon the treatment it receives in order to be empowered to love the significant other.

    This is why the love of God is superior to human love as while we were yet enemies Christ died for us.

    Romans 5:6-8 (KJV)

    6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

    7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

    8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.​
     
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  10. royal priest

    royal priest debtor to grace

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    Narcissistic people are the epitome of selfishness. Their heart is in such a condition that keeps them entering the kingdom of Heaven. They think they are the cream of the crop and that they can do no wrong. If they are in the church, it is not because they mourn over their sin.
    Having said that, there are true Christians in the church that used to be narcissistic and as such can fall back into selfish pride. When this happens, the church ought to follow the principles of discipline laid out by Jesus in Matthew 18. If he repents, then you forgive him.
     
  11. Josheb

    Josheb Christian Supporter

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    Why? How is it that you must have dealings with narcissists on a regular basis?
    Wait a minute. Do you see a lot of "pedo activity" in the congregation(s) you attend?
     
  12. Nig

    Nig Newbie

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    no I’m talking about the broad church and why pedos are attracted to this environment.
     
  13. ~Cassia~

    ~Cassia~ jus waitin for the dust to clear Supporter

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    I don’t believe that Christianity promotes narcissism but the interpretation of manifest destiny does. Those who use Christianity for self gain are those who abuse it. Christianity says that people are to be loved and things are for our use, not people are for our use and we should love things.
     
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  14. Nig

    Nig Newbie

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    Sorry getting used to how the quote system works; it’s not quite doing what I want.

    I have to have contact with them because they are related to me.....

    second One I’m trying to figure out how and if I should be dealing with them. They are coming to me and consuming my time and efforts plus over stepping social norms and boundaries. They are deeply wounded from a lifetime of abuse.
     
  15. ~Cassia~

    ~Cassia~ jus waitin for the dust to clear Supporter

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    Don’t feed the dragon
     
  16. Josheb

    Josheb Christian Supporter

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    Please forgive my word replacement but what was posted is not feelings. They are not emotions, and at least part of you solution is going to entail sorting out beliefs and thoughts from emotions and how they drive your choices and behavior.

    If you really want to sense some power in your newfound awareness then go through your post and re-write it by taking all the "feel" and "fell like" out of it an replace them with "believe" or "think." Then, and only then, go through it again and put in the emotional content. For example, "I believe certain Christian teachings maybe promote narcissism and that makes me feel _________________" or perhaps, "When I hear teachings that could potential promote narcissism I feel ________________," and put in the emotional labels. Whatever changes you are going to make dealing with narcissists, they are going to be made with greater awareness and resolve if and when you get yourself back to wholeness.

    We are at our best when the sensate (somatic), cognitive, affective, volitional, behavioral functions work together with our awareness. Soul and Spirit aren't supposed to be blind to one another.


    There are some good videos on Youtube (search the MedCircle vids) about identifying and interacting (or not interacting) with narcissists. Some boring content but if you really are in relationship with narcissists they'll help you walk away.

    Because that is what you should do with the true narcissist.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
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  17. Nig

    Nig Newbie

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    I’ve been practicing the No word.....

    was it Winston Churchill that said appeasement is feeding others to the crocodile in the hope that it will east you last.....
     
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  18. Josheb

    Josheb Christian Supporter

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    I have a peer working in the same counseling practice whose clientele is mostly pastors and he swears all pastors are narcissists. What do make of that?


    :oops: Is that you, John? ;)
     
  19. Billy UK

    Billy UK Well-Known Member

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    True, the problem is that with a person who is deeply narcissistic you need to ensure that you are capable of bearing the burden. If you become entangled in sin through acquiring a bad attitude towards them then the devil will drain you both. Hence the exhortation in Scripture.

    Galatians 6:1-10 (KJV)

    6 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

    2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.​
     
  20. ~Cassia~

    ~Cassia~ jus waitin for the dust to clear Supporter

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    The problem is that carnal Christians are regenerated but they choose to stay and play in the dirt rather than move higher. That’s their choice. Restoring them doesn’t mean subjecting oneself to their demands nor does it mean taking responsibility for them. Read Corinthians for the procedure of dealing with carnality.

    For instance these things should not be allowed to be downplayed
     
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