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What Time Do You Think It Is??

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by rollinTHUNDER, Jul 7, 2002.

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  1. jenlu

    jenlu Member

    246
    +1
    preterists focus on the first coming...good call...reason...the first coming and the subsequent events make up the victory of Jesus Christ...focusing on this gives us the wherewithal to live life victoriously through and WITH Jesus Christ NOW and forever. Why should we prepare to meet the Lord because as Christians we are with Him now and forever. Amen.
     
  2. mcfly1960

    mcfly1960 Member

    159
    +2
    Protestant
    Actually, we are not with Him, but He is with us.  In Matthew 28:20 He tells us "lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."  He is with us through the presence of the Holy Spirit.  Jesus, the Son, is at the right hand of the Father exalted, in heaven (Acts 2:33).

    While our mission is to make disciples of all nations, scripture reminds us that we are in the world, but not of the world.  This is not our final home. 

    We are encouraged to be ever watchful for His Second Coming: "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Revelation 22:17
     
  3. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

    +3
    Christian
    The man who has 2 watches never knows what time it is.

    Think about that for 5 years or so.  Get it?
     
  4. closer

    closer New Member

    38
    +0
    Julie
    Please explain yourself. Are you commenting on Mcfly1960's answer to my post. I am not as interested in the quote I understand that, but to whom is it directed.
     
  5. mcfly1960

    mcfly1960 Member

    159
    +2
    Protestant
    As far as watchfulness is concerned, one's watch should always allow for the possibility that He may return today, esle I think that person need to think about getting a new watch! :)
     
  6. KeepTheFaith15

    KeepTheFaith15 Thats Me whats can i say?

    +4
    it is 2:18 in the afternoon, just kidding
     
  7. KeepTheFaith15

    KeepTheFaith15 Thats Me whats can i say?

    +4
    just a little humor...it wasnt that funny
     
  8. jenlu

    jenlu Member

    246
    +1
    mcfly,
    You said it...He IS seated at the right hand of the Father...reigning as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Nothing is needed(still future coming) to put Him in that position. A still future return would suggest He didn't get the job done, which we both know is impossible. I am(as we speak) a joint heir in his (now present) kingdom.
     
  9. mcfly1960

    mcfly1960 Member

    159
    +2
    Protestant
    In my church, we say the Apostle's Creed.  If you don't know this creed, perhaps this is where your doctrinal error lies.

    From the Apostles Creed:

    "..He ascended into heaven and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence [from that place] He shall come [future tense]to judge the quick and the dead."

     

     
     
  10. Kyle

    Kyle Citizen of Heaven in Christ

    83
    +0
    It's 12:08 am, Thursday Aug 1.

    And Christ is coming back, soon.
     
  11. jenlu

    jenlu Member

    246
    +1
    To the apostle's it was still future...for us it is past(accomplished)...I hang my faith on the Word...not creed's...creed's say it is still future for us...the Word says it is already accomplished...I choose to go with the Word.
     
  12. mcfly1960

    mcfly1960 Member

    159
    +2
    Protestant
    Many false doctrines come about from people misapplying scripture or taking them out of context. Paul warned of a time when "they will not endure sound doctrine" (II Timothy 4:3). Peter said some scriptures are hard to understand and that some who are unlearned and unstable can err (see II Peter 3:15-17).  This is the purpose of the creeds and is also why we have seminaries.  While not all Protestant churches have the Apostles Creed and Nicene Creed as part of their liturgy, yet they are agreed in the doctrines contained therein.  If not, they are teaching false doctrine.

    If your eschatology, or any theological postion, goes against these two basic creeds, which includes denying the future Second Coming and the Last Judgment, then it is in major error.

     

     
     
  13. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

    +8
    United States
    Protestant
    Married
    US-Libertarian


    Hi celtic,

    Yeah, this is pretty good stuff, but it isn't my writing. I just got tired of a lot of false doctrine that is flooding it's way into this forum, so I went searching for some new and different topics from other forums. This place is still a ghost town. I don't spend too much time here anymore, because of all the confusing false doctrines that is allowed. As you can tell, neither do most of the old members. People that don't even believe in the future second coming and rapture are (just like the preterists), bringing their non-sense here, and it is very unattractive, so everybody who knows anything about prophecy end up leaving. Scoffers are here bro. These are the last days for sure.

    I have been putting a lot of time into my next topic though. It is taking me forever to complete it, but maybe I'll post it tomorrow. But I'll warn you though celtic, it's not a thread for your liking. You know me. Controversial subjects always seem to find there way into my hands. :D  But I should say, even though you might not agree with it, it is probably is my best work to date, as far as writing goes. I don't think many on this forum will be able to understand it, because they always try to understand the deeper spiritual things with their fleshly minds. Look for it anyway. It will be titled : "A MYSTERY : The Rapture and the Parable of the Ten Virgins". I have been wanting to write this subject for quite a while now. See ya bro!!!
     
  14. closer

    closer New Member

    38
    +0
    I am not an expert on escatology but I still find it very difficult to believe that the angels lied to us when they said Jesus would be coming back like he left. Publically. Hold on Paul lied as well to the the coming. Wait John lied to in Revelation. To post the thought that Christ is not going to come again leads me to believe that someone is using my pattened "Loose Leaf Bible with Erasable Scriptures" and just deleting as they go.
     
  15. try31

    try31 New Member

    2
    +0
    "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. " I Thessalonians 5:1-2

    "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness: but is longsuffering to usward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night: in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness." II Peter 3:9-11

    This is supporting the fact of the future Second Coming according to the scriptures, among other scriptures.
     
  16. jenlu

    jenlu Member

    246
    +1
    mcfly...If the scripture's are so "mysterious" and tough to understand and that's what you're hanging your hat on....how do you know you're right...calling or implying someone that doesn't agree with you as unlearned or unstable is pretty sad even if you use scripture to somehow justify it...If the creeds don't match up with scripture than they are in error...I would suggest to quit USING scripture to MAKE/PROVE your point of view and ALLOW scripture to FORM your point of view...
     
  17. mcfly1960

    mcfly1960 Member

    159
    +2
    Protestant
    I was simply paraphrasing the scripture I referred to, II Peter 3:15-17, not pointing to you specifically.  This would apply to any student of the Bible.

    Peter used the language "hard to be understood", "unlearned" and "unstable":

    "15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
    16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
    17  Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness." II Peter 3:15-17



    By the way, this is in the same chapter and in the same context where Peter warns about scoffers in the last days questioning the Second Coming: 

    3 "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
    4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
    5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
    6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
    7  But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
    8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
    9  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
    10  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."  II Peter 3:3-10



     
     
  18. jenlu

    jenlu Member

    246
    +1
    You're the one who said they were hard to be understood...just because I disagree with you. I don't find them hard to be understood...do you?...what about the scoffers in the 60's AD...999, 1299, practically every turn of the century...were they "walking after their own lusts" when denying the scripture's stated "the end" was coming...BTW looking at the word elements(stoichea) and giving it it's proper meaning would shed some light on what Peter (God) says "shall melt with fervent heat"...
     
  19. mcfly1960

    mcfly1960 Member

    159
    +2
    Protestant
    So are you disagreeing with Peter?  Peter is the one that said some scriptures are hard to understand.

    When studying scripture, I always use a Bible with good study notes.  I also consult Bible handbooks and the commentaries of various expositors on that portion of scripture.

    Billy Graham has said that there are some things in the Bible that he will not understand until he gets to heaven.  But he accepts those things on faith.

    The main problem with the full preterist view is that it contradicts a fundamental doctrine of the Christian faith, that being the future Second Coming.  I understand that there is a "partial preterist" view that still affirms the Second Coming, so maybe you should consider that one as an aternative.

    From http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/9tc/9tc086.html

    "While the partial preterist view of Revelation asserts that John was indeed addressing times of persecution and tribulation in the first century—a point that distinguishes it from the futurist perspective—it also contends that the "Day of the Lord," the second coming of Christ, and the "resurrection of the dead" are all future events, which separates it from the full preterist position."
     
  20. jenlu

    jenlu Member

    246
    +1
    I completely agree with Peter...there are some verses that are hard to understand, but he says that about those that are unlearned and unstable right?...While there are some that I don't understand fully, when it comes to the "last days" I feel that I do(about timing, by no means do I mean implications, that will take a lifetime to understand)...
    I used to say the same thing... "some things are just not for us to understand" as an excuse on not really wanting to know or really giving an effort to understand...I am still a partial preterist(have been 4 years) , but I see much merit in the so called full view...it's starting to make sense...
    So what about the scoffers of the past...when they were told the last days were here...?
    Also, and finally, the one an only fundamental doctrine of the Christian faith IMO is Jesus the Christ lived, was crucified, and raised up to be King of Kings and Lord of Lords...
     
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