What "Spirit" for Paul is a far greater glory than the "letters etched in stone"?

[guevaraj]

Of course to disobey the Ten Commandments is sin.

Brother, you have abused God's "forgiveness" as a substitute for "obedience" when that is not our common experience as parents over our children. If, as a father, you forgive your child, it is to give him another chance to obey, and you do not expect him to see your forgiveness as an excuse for him to continue to disobey, thinking your forgiveness is a substitute for obedience in your final solution to his disobedience. To make it clear, you're an evil child! Though your good Father keeps forgiving you for hitting your sister, you refuse to stop hitting her, assuming your Father's forgiveness is a replacement for having to obey your Father in His final judgment for your actions. This, of course, is contrary to Paul's teaching in the following passage, where Paul is not eliminating God's law for you to obey when he excludes God's law as the only law that removes sin when obeyed. The reason you can't see it is that you are abusing "forgiveness" as a replacement for "obedience" to God's law.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law (of humans in Judaism), does that mean we can go on sinning (disobeying the Eleven Commandments)? Of course not (don't misunderstand God's grace in the Father putting Jesus as our High Priest)! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey (sin or God)? You can be a slave to sin (disobeying the Eleven Commandments), which leads to death (like Judaism's sabotage of not obeying "all" of God's Ten Commandments), or you can choose to obey God (Eleven Commandments that remove sin), which leads to righteous living (freedom from sin). Thank God (Jesus' many forgivenesses as our High Priest allowing us to grow in obedience through practice of the Eleven Commandments that remove sin)! Once you were slaves of sin (disobeying the Eleven Commandments), but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you (Eleven Commandments). Now you are free from your slavery to sin (when you obey Jesus' Eleven Commandments), and you have become slaves to righteous living (obeying the Eleven Commandments). (Romans 6:15-18 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[oikonomia]

Brother, you have abused God's "forgiveness" as a substitute for "obedience" when that is not our common experience as parents over our children.

No I have not. Justification by faith unto eternal redemption does not mean we can continue to sin.
This is the problem gone into in Romans 6 and in a number of other places. You are still ignorant of the New Testament.

What then shall we say? Should we continue in sin that grace may abound? (Rom. 6:1)
This followed by teaching of which you apparently are ignorant.

And why not say (as we are slanderously charged and as some affirm that we say),
Let us do evil that good may come? whose judgment is just. (Rom. 3:8,9)
This a slander which you are repeating accusing me of abusing God's forgiveness as encouragement for sinning.

You are still ignorant of the New Testament. Long posts are wasted on your slanderous ignorance
Then again -
Do not be deceived: God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. (Gal. 6:7)
But you are so ignorant of the New Testament careful examination of it is wasted on you at this point.

I could go on and on and on showing Justification by Faith is not license to think continuing in sin is
non-cosnequential.

Sadly, your entire thrust is just a teaching on Saturday Sabbath keeping.
It is truely sad.

One mention from the mouth of Jesus Himself.

Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish, but to fulfill.
For truly I say to you, Until heaven and earth pass away, one iota or one serif shall by no means pass away from the law until all come to pass.

Therefore whoever annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called the least in the kingdom of the heavens; but whoever practices and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.

For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall by no means enter into the kingdom of the heavens. (Matt. 5:17-20)

Did you think I had taken a pair of scissors and cut out those verses from the Gospel ?
Did you think surely I have never read or contemplated these words?

Verse 18 clearly shows that in the manifestation of the kingdom of heavens there are those
whom will be called "great" and those who will be called "least".

There are degrees of honor.
And there are degrees of discipline.

But the principle of living is different from that of the OT law keeping.

If, as a father, you forgive your child, it is to give him another chance to obey, and you do not expect him to see your forgiveness as an excuse for him to continue to disobey,

It is a moot point because up front you slanderously misrepresent what I believe.
There is no point to wading through the rest of your analogy.

Someday, maybe, you'll have Romans and Galatians and Matthew made more clear to you.
But not while you have this self righteous obsession with Saturday worship.

Not while you glare down your spectacles on every Christian who is not
overwhelmed by your supposed allegence to Saturday Sabbath keeping.

 

[oikonomia]

The Holy Spirit "dwells in us" the regenerated Christians.

Guard the good deposit through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us. (2 Tim.1:14 Recovery Version)

 

[guevaraj]

The Holy Spirit "dwells in us" the regenerated Christians.

Guard the good deposit through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us. (2 Tim.1:14 Recovery Version)

Brother, that is a bad translation of the original Greek! The order of words is reversed because it is saying something different. I found only one translation that noticed the words are reversed in the original Greek because it is saying something different which they translated as "The Spirit of Holiness" being different from the Holy Spirit. I use their translation of this different order of words in the original Greek to correct the translation below. Jesus truly lives in you when you obey the law of God that Jesus obeyed. Jesus has fulfilled the promise of putting God's law in our hearts as the external visible "Spirit" in the flesh, that is a far greater glory than the glory of the letters etched in stone of the Ten Commandments, which Jesus corrects from Judaism's disobedience, so that we can obey God's law fully. Jesus has saved us from death by having the "veil" lifted of Judaism's disobedience, which kills when disobeyed, had we continued in Judaism's sin of disobeying the Ten Commandments.

So never be ashamed to tell others about our Lord. And don’t be ashamed of me, either, even though I’m in prison for him. With the strength God gives you, be ready to suffer with me for the sake of the Good News. For God saved us and called us to live a holy life. He did this, not because we deserved it, but because that was his plan from before the beginning of time—to show us his grace through Christ Jesus. And now he has made all of this plain to us by the appearing of Christ Jesus, our Savior. He broke the power of death and illuminated the way to life and immortality through the Good News. And God chose me to be a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of this Good News. That is why I am suffering here in prison. But I am not ashamed of it, for I know the one in whom I trust, and I am sure that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him until the day of his return. Hold on to the pattern of wholesome teaching you learned from me—a pattern shaped by the faith and love that you have in Christ Jesus. Through the power of The Spirit of Holiness (not the Holy Spirit because the words are reversed) who lives within us, carefully guard the precious truth that has been entrusted to you. (2 Timothy 1:8-14 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[oikonomia]

Brother, that is a bad translation of the original Greek!

What is your level of expertise in New Testament Greek? What are your credentials in reading and writing Koine Greek and in
translation? Anyone can use the excuse of "poor translation" pretentiously.
I noticed few exceptions. Though from many translations one would expect some difference.
as in
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Keep the good trust by The Spirit of Holiness, who dwells within is,
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have no doubt at all that as a Christian "the Holy Spirit dwells in us."

English Standard Version
. . . By the Holy Spirit who dwells within us,
Berean Standard Bible
. . . with the help of the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.
King James Bible
. . . the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
New King James Version
. . . by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.
New American Standard Bible
Protect, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us,
Christian Standard Bible
. . . through the Holy Spirit who lives in us.
American Standard Version 1901
. . . the Holy Spirit which dwelleth in us.
Amplified Bible
. . . the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.
Contemporary English Version
. . . the Holy Spirit, who lives within us.
Douay-Rheims Bible
. . . the Holy Ghost, who dwelleth in us.

You just don't take it.

​

https://biblehub.com/2_timothy/1-14.htm#study

 

[oikonomia]

Jesus truly lives in you when you obey the law of God that Jesus obeyed. Jesus has fulfilled the promise of putting God's law in our hearts as the external visible "Spirit" in the flesh, that is a far greater glory than the glory of the letters etched in stone of the Ten Commandments, which Jesus corrects from Judaism's disobedience, so that we can obey God's law fully. Jesus has saved us from death by having the "veil" lifted of Judaism's disobedience, which kills when disobeyed, had we continued in Judaism's sin of disobeying the Ten Commandments.

1.) The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus. (Acts 16:6,7)

2.) There is one Spirit in the Body of Christ.
One Body and one Spirit, even as also you were called in one hope of your calling; (Eph. 4:4 RcV)

3.) The Spirit within may be grieved when we disobey Him.
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed unto the day of redemption. (Eph. 4:30)

4.) The Spirit of God aka Spirit of Christ aka CHRIST dwells in the believer whether he grieves Him with disobedience
or makes Him pleased through obedience which of course is the preferable goal.
. . . the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him.
But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness. (Rom. 8:8-10)

5.) Paul my brother in Christ said he had the Spirit of God.
according to my opinion; but I think that I also have the Spirit of God. (1 Cor. 7:40b)

6.) The coming into Christians of the Holy Spirit is the coming of the Father and the Son as the divine "We"
to make an abode with the lovers of Jesus.
Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him. (John 14:23)

 

[Leaf473]

For what it's worth, Greek frequently changes word order. In Revelation 11:2, Jerusalem is called the holy city. But the Greek word order would be city holy. It doesn't seem reasonable to me that Jerusalem would be the city of holiness.

Bible Gateway passage: ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 11:2 - SBL Greek New Testament

καὶ τὴν αὐλὴν τὴν ἔξωθεν τοῦ ναοῦ ἔκβαλε ἔξωθεν, καὶ μὴ αὐτὴν μετρήσῃς, ὅτι ἐδόθη τοῖς ἔθνεσιν, καὶ τὴν πόλιν τὴν ἁγίαν πατήσουσιν μῆνας τεσσεράκοντα δύο.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[oikonomia]

For what it's worth, Greek frequently changes word order. In Revelation 11:2, Jerusalem is called the holy city. But the Greek word order would be city holy. It doesn't seem reasonable to me that Jerusalem would be the city of holiness.

Bible Gateway passage: ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 11:2 - SBL Greek New Testament

καὶ τὴν αὐλὴν τὴν ἔξωθεν τοῦ ναοῦ ἔκβαλε ἔξωθεν, καὶ μὴ αὐτὴν μετρήσῃς, ὅτι ἐδόθη τοῖς ἔθνεσιν, καὶ τὴν πόλιν τὴν ἁγίαν πατήσουσιν μῆνας τεσσεράκοντα δύο.

www.biblegateway.com

Thankyou Leaf473.

Sometimes a thing dedicated to God is on a holy position, a holy standing.
That the city of Jerusalem could be "the holy city" or "city of holiness" there in Revelation 11 I think
is more is standing, in position, consecrated to God and set apart for God.

You may have in mind that the Jerusalem city is also referred to sinful place and worldly place
in those times, which is not subjectively holy.

And their corpses will be on the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt,
where also their Lord was crucified. (Rev. 11:8)

So in 11:2 we have "and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months" as you pointed out.
Yet spiritually the city where Jesus was crucified is Sodom and Egypt, not very holy.
great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, (11:8)

I think your post moves the discussion along from a cyclical rut guevaraj and I are in.
In another post I would like to show that God gives to man the Holy Spirit ultimately that
man may be made holy. That is saturated and permeated within subjectively with God's holy nature.

For He ALONE is holy. Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy; (Rev. 15:4b)
And His eternal purpose is to infuse His people with this holiness through dispensing Himself into us.

Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love, (Eph. 1:4)

That He might present the church to Himself glorious, not having spot or wrinkle or any such things, but that she would be holy and without blemish. (Eph. 5:27)

And I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (Rev. 21:2)

 

[guevaraj]

What is your level of expertise in New Testament Greek? What are your credentials in reading and writing Koine Greek and in translation? Anyone can use the excuse of "poor translation" pretentiously.

Brother, I have a master's degree and not the higher doctorate of these translators. That's why I looked for a correct translation to give you, instead of translating it myself.

I have no doubt at all that as a Christian "the Holy Spirit dwells in us."

The following passage does not give your claimed assurance of everyone who uses Jesus' name to have the Holy Spirit, but only those who "obey" God and are not excusing their disobedience by abusing God's forgiveness as replacing having to do God's given acts of "righteousness" in the Ten Commandments.

But Peter and the apostles replied, “We must obey God rather than any human authority. The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead after you killed him by hanging him on a cross. Then God put him in the place of honor at his right hand as Prince and Savior. He did this so the people of Israel would repent of their sins and be forgiven. We are witnesses of these things and so is the Holy Spirit, who is given by God to those who obey him.” (Acts 5:29-32 NLT)​

The above message is confirmed in the two passages below, where not everyone has the Spirit of truth, because some have the spirit of deception.

Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit (that would be you). You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God (we know from the passage above that the Spirit of God "obeys" and does not abuse God's "forgiveness" as an excuse to "disobey"). For there are many false prophets in the world (that would be you). This is how we know if they have the Spirit of God: If a person claiming to be a prophet acknowledges that Jesus Christ came in a real body (the "Spirit" in the flesh for us to model doing the same as Jesus), that person has the Spirit of God (that would be me). But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus (being the model "Spirit" in the flesh to do the same as Jesus), that person is not from God (that would be you). Such a person has the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard is coming into the world and indeed is already here. But you belong to God, my dear children. You have already won a victory over those people, because the Spirit who lives in you is greater than the spirit who lives in the world. Those people belong to this world, so they speak from the world’s viewpoint (wanting to remain in sin by disobeying God's law), and the world listens to them. But we belong to God, and those who know God listen to us (obeying the Ten Commandments and more with the new Eleventh Commandment of Jesus). If they do not belong to God, they do not listen to us (that would be you). That is how we know if someone has the Spirit of truth (me) or the spirit of deception (you). (1 John 4:1-6 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

Jesus confirms the above message by making it even clearer that not all that use His name are known by Him. The distinction is given that those who have the Spirit of truth obey the law of God in the current Eleven Commandments and those who have the spirit of deception are workers of "lawlessness", disobeying the Ten Commandments.

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (Matthew 7:21-23 ESV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[oikonomia]

Brother, I have a master's degree and not the higher doctorate of these translators. That's why I looked for a correct translation to give you, instead of translating it myself.

Thankyou. I assume you meant an MS in New Testament Greek.

ἢ οὐκ οἴδατε ὅτι τὸ σῶμα ὑμῶν ναὸς τοῦ ἐν ὑμῖν ῾Αγίου Πνεύματός ἐστιν, οὗ ἔχετε ἀπὸ Θεοῦ, καὶ οὐκ ἐστὲ ἑαυτῶν;

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you,
whom you have from God, and you are not your own? (1 Cor. 1:19)

I think you come to the text with what you wish to believe as presupposition.
Then you look for confirmation in the one or two translations which would do so.

Now, you have to teach the Lord Jesus did not cause the disciples to "Receive the Holy Spirit."
Now you have propose two divine Spirits - the Holy Spirit plus another Spirit of Jesus.
Now the Spirit that gives life must be some OTHER spirit beside the Last Adam who became a life giving Spirit.

I've lost trust in you. I wonder if you really have a fearful sense within you of what
you're doing to bulster up to the heavens the 4th Commandment.

This is obsession.
Where is your fear of God to so munipulate His word?

You don't want to believe that the regenerated Christian has the Holy Spirit dwelling in him?
And WHY ?? Because your most important belief is that all keep the Saturday Sabbath?

This is obsession sir. Saul of Tarsus was an obsessed man when he persecuted the church.
He had not spiritual reality. He only had his obsession driving him. It took God's mercy to free his mind.

The following passage does not give your claimed assurance of everyone who uses Jesus' name to have the Holy Spirit, but only those who "obey" God and are not excusing their disobedience by abusing God's forgiveness as replacing having to do God's given acts of "righteousness" in the Ten Commandments.

But Peter and the apostles replied, “We must obey God rather than any human authority. The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead after you killed him by hanging him on a cross. Then God put him in the place of honor at his right hand as Prince and Savior. He did this so the people of Israel would repent of their sins and be forgiven. We are witnesses of these things and so is the Holy Spirit, who is given by God to those who obey him.” (Acts 5:29-32 NLT)​

The point is not good enough. Of course, of course we ought to obey the indwelling Holy Spirit.
We ought not "grieve the Holy Spirit." He has sealed the believers and indwells them as a pledge.

And the verses that you refer to may surely refer to those who had not RECEIVED Jesus as the Lord or the Holy Spirit.
For them to repent and believe He was Son of God who died and rose as their Lord now was the first step in their
OBEYING God.

So you do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you ?
Yes or No?

I am joined to the Lord in my spirit with the Holy Spirit as "one spirit."
But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. (1 Cor. 6:17)

My innermost spiritual being has become mingled and united with the Triune God.
How else could the Spirit and my spirit become one united spirit?
But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. (1 Cor. 6:17)

This mingle spirit is the very nature of the Christian being "joined to the Lord."

Of course the more I obey this indwelling Spirit rather than grieve Him the more He
makes His home in ALL the chambers of my soul - the mind, the emotion, and the will.

Not for a second do I accept your lie that I as a Christian do not have the Holy Spirit
dwelling in me.

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you,
whom you have from God, and you are not your own? (1 Cor. 1:19)

 

[guevaraj]

So you do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you? Yes or No?

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday, January 26, 2024, at 10:07 AM EST! Yes, I passed the test of having God's Spirit! As evidenced by having the Law of God in my heart telling me that Jesus knows me. However, you clearly do not have the law of God in your heart, keeping ideas of human origin, like our modern Sunday, as a replacement for God's Fourth Commandment, and therefore, have the spirit of deception. The deception of having embraced the evil of using God's daily forgiveness as a replacement for actual obedience to the Ten Commandments. Rejecting God's gift of the daily of our High Priest Jesus in the heavenly temple, to grow up in "obedience" to the Ten Commandments, thinking instead God's forgiveness will save you from God's final judgment over you choosing to disobey God's Ten Commandments that remove sin when obeyed because you rather keep on sinning than eliminate the sin that obeying God's law provides. That one Spirit in the church you mentioned is Jesus and not the Holy Spirit, who has nothing to say other than what He hears from Jesus and shares with us through the guaranteed word of God by the prophets in the scriptures that tell me that Jesus does not know you because you do not have God's Ten Commandments in your heart. The Ten Commandments Jesus rescued from Judaism's replacement human law that contradicted God's Ten Commandments to keep the sin the Ten Commandments were given to remove.

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (Matthew 7:21-23 ESV)​

Not for a second do I accept your lie that I as a Christian do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in me.

Jesus said so when He mentions that some may think they are Christians but do not obey God's Ten Commandments to remove the sin God has exposed from our sinful nature and equipped us with daily forgiveness to grow in obedience to those Ten Commandments through our High Priest Jesus in the true heavenly temple. Our High Priest Jesus' daily intercession, that you show no need of because of your spirit of deception.

Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. (Hebrews 7:23-26 NIV)​

Do you think that if Jesus does not know you, that the Holy Spirit does know you? That is the spirit of deception working within you to deceive you into remaining in sin! The one that matters is Jesus, and He expects Christians to obey the current Eleven Commandments to be saved from sin by actual obedience and not your evil abuse of forgiveness in place of obedience.

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (Matthew 7:21-23 ESV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[oikonomia]

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday, January 26, 2024, at 10:07 AM EST! Yes, I passed the test of having God's Spirit!

Thanks. I asked you whether you have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you.
In your teaching the Spirit and the Holy Spirit are two different spirits.
Does the HOLY SPIRIT dwell in you. Yes or No to the Holy Spirit dwelling in you.

That one Spirit in the church you mentioned is Jesus and not the Holy Spirit,

As an individual Christian my body has been made a temple of the Holy Spirit who is within me.
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, (1 Cor. 6:19a)

As a constituent of the church, she as a whole is the temple of the same Spirit.
Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? (1 Cor. 3:16)

First Corinthians 6:19 concerns Christians as individuals.
First Corinthians 3:16 concerns a local church (the church in Corinth) as a part of the universal church.

Your teaching that the Lord Jesus who is the Spirit is not the Holy Spirit is wrong.
Go back to your teachers and tell them that they taught you the wrong thing.

Tell them that if EACH Christian's body is a temple of the Holy Spirit dwelling in them,
then collectively as the church the Spirit of God has made them corporately His temple.

There is not the Holy Spirit in all the Christians yet a different Spirit - the Spirit of God in the church collectively.
Tell them in love that they taught you the wrong thing.

 

[oikonomia]

Happy Sabbath Day to you Sabbath Day keeping Christians.
(Maybe they thought I was not going to say that.)

One judges one day above another; another judges every day alike. Let each be fully persuaded in his own mind. (Rom. 14:5)

Notice that in the Gospels the Spirit of our Father is interchangeable with the Holy Spirit.

For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that hour what should be said. (Luke 12:12)
For you are not the ones speaking, but the Spirit of your Father is the One speaking in you. (Matt. 10:20)

Being diligent to keep the oneness of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace:
One Body and one Spirit, even as also you were called in one hope of your calling; (Eph. 4:3,4)

 

[guevaraj]

Notice that in the Gospels the Spirit of our Father is interchangeable with the Holy Spirit.

Brother, they are not interchangeable because it is the Father who spoke through the Holy Spirit in the past and the Holy Spirit has nothing to say on His own other than what He heard from the Father at the beginning and now from Jesus until Jesus "humbles all his enemies beneath His feet". The one Spirit over us is Jesus and not the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the message of Jesus guaranteed by the prophets in the Scriptures. The personal silence of the Holy Spirit towards non-prophets has been the excuse for keeping the human tradition of Sunday over the word of God guaranteed by the prophets in the scriptures. We follow the Holy Spirit when we follow the scriptures and those who say they are following a personally silent Holy Spirit against the public word of God in the scriptures are actually doing what they want and excusing their disobedience as following a personally silent Holy Spirit, to defend the human tradition of Sunday as the banner for their disobedience by consensus, as if Jesus' church was a democracy to agree by majority to disobey God's Ten Commandments and keep the sin that the Ten Commandments were given to eliminate when obeyed.

After that the end will come, when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power. For Christ must reign until he humbles all his enemies beneath his feet. And the last enemy to be destroyed is death. For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.” (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.) Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere. (1 Corinthians 15:24-28 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[oikonomia]

Brother, they are not interchangeable because it is the Father who spoke through the Holy Spirit in the past and the Holy Spirit has nothing to ....

Does the HOLY SPIRIT dwell in you? Yes or No to the Holy Spirit dwelling in you.

Does the HOLY SPIRIT dwell in you? Yes or No?

 

[guevaraj]

Does the HOLY SPIRIT dwell in you? Yes or No to the Holy Spirit dwelling in you. Does the HOLY SPIRIT dwell in you? Yes or No?

Brother, yes! I have the Holy Spirit in me who helps me to pray to God and remember the life of Jesus, helping Jesus to put the law of God in my heart. You are wrong about which "Spirit" saves us from sin promised from the beginning as the descendant savior that Adam and Eve expected that would crush the head of Satan. It is having the Spirit of Jesus by doing the same as Jesus, that is what saves me from sin, and not the Holy Spirit, as corrected in the following passage, where again, "The Spirit of Holiness", being Jesus, is wrongly translated as the Holy Spirit, when the reverse order of the words is saying something different from the Holy Spirit because He is not our example to do the same as Jesus promised from the beginning to Adam and Eve to save us from sin. Jesus is our example of obedience to eliminate sin. If sin is kept, as in the case of Judaism's disobedience, the sin being kept by disobeying leads to death.

God’s purpose was that we Jews who were the first to trust in Christ would bring praise and glory to God. And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the The Spirit of Holiness (Jesus in the flesh as the Spirit that puts the law of God in our hearts by having us do the same as Jesus and not like Judaism's disobedience of the Ten Commandments), whom he promised long ago (Jesus being the savior promised to Adam and Eve from the beginning). The Spirit (of Jesus to do the same as Jesus) is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him. (Ephesians 1:12-14 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[oikonomia]

Brother, yes! I have the Holy Spirit in me who helps me to pray to God and remember the life of Jesus, helping Jesus to put the law of God in my heart.

So the Holy Spirit is within you and I. And He is not merely OUT THERE as a "model."
He is a living Person - wonderful and mysterious, who LIVES in our spirit.

You are wrong about which "Spirit" saves us from sin promised from the beginning as the descendant savior that Adam and Eve expected that would crush the head of Satan.

Praise the Lord that you now come to believe within you DWELLS the Holy Spirit.
From now on I hope you remember and testify that the HOLY SPIRIT dwells in you, lives in you.
You previously fought against that.

Don't go back ever to thinking of the Holy Spirit as only an outside objective model. He is the Holy Spirit
who dwells within those who received the Lord Jesus.

Guard the good deposit through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us. (2 Tim. 1:14 Recovery Version)
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, (1 Cor. 1:19a RcV)

I am happy that you have come this far back to the New Testament truth.
And the other matters I will not debate about now.
If you want to call this living Person within us a "model" remember He dwells in us as a living "model."

Praise God! You now admit the truth - the Holy Spirit indwells the believers - lives in the believers - dwells in the Christian believers.
Stand on this. Proclaim this. Tell God "The Holy Spirit LIVES in me." Tell the whole universe. Tell the enemy.
The Holy Spirit dwells in me. My body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is in me helping me to guard my
prriceless deposit in Christ.

 

[guevaraj]

So the Holy Spirit is within you and I.

Brother, the Spirit of truth is not with everyone who claims to be a follower of Jesus, as Jesus himself wrote in the following passage. You do not pass the test of following the Spirit of truth and are actually following the spirit of deception when you show yourself to be a worker of "lawlessness", because you share the fatal deception of having people disobey the Ten Commandments that kill when disobeyed. The Ten Commandments Jesus rescued from human tradition in Judaism for us to obey fully because to disobey the Ten Commandments leads to death. Jesus came to save us from the sin of disobeying the Ten Commandments that Judaism disobeyed, by us following Jesus' example of obedience and not the example of Judaism's disobedience of the Ten Commandments. You are a worker of "lawlessness" in the following passage, where you tell others to disobey the Ten Commandments that kill when disobeyed, because you are telling people to keep the sin Jesus came to eliminate by being an example for us to obey fully the Ten Commandments that Judaism failed to obey fully, having sabotaged them with human traditions like our modern Sunday replacement of the Sabbath in the Fourth Commandment of the letters etched in stone. Jesus is a far greater glory for us to copy than the glory of the letters etched in stone that Judaism disobeyed.

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (Matthew 7:21-23 ESV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[oikonomia]

Brother, the Spirit of truth is not with everyone who claims to be a follower of Jesus,

True but irrelevant here. That is a small s spirit. You yourself manifested for awhile a small s spirit which was not of truth.
You NOW confess that as the New Testament teaches, the Holy Spirit dwells in you.
He also dwells in me. I rejoice in this.

as Jesus himself wrote in the following passage. You do not pass the test of following the Spirit of truth and are actually following the spirit of deception when you show yourself to be a worker of "lawlessness", because you share the fatal deception of having people disobey the Ten Commandments that kill when disobeyed.

The letter you reference says we must obey His commandments.
That is to believe that Jesus is the Son of God and to love one another FIRST.

And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, even as He gave a commandment to us. (1 John 3:23)

You can believe in God as a Unitarian and NOT believe in the Son Jesus Christ.
Then you would NOT be obeying His commandment.

And you could worship this God on Saturday for 24 hours and NOT believe in the Son of God.
You would not be obeying His commandment.

I hope you are not embaressed that you finally had to agree with the Bible that
Christians receive the Person of the Holy Spirit indwelling them.

Do not backpeddle now with lots of other complaints.
Enjoy that you have said "Amen!" finally to the word of God.

In perhaps a new thread I will introduce (not sure yet) I will
dedicate a discussion to what it means for Jesus to say that He came to fulfill the law not abolish it.
I wanted to talk about that a long time ago.

Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish, but to fulfill. (Matt. 5:17)

 

[oikonomia]

News Flash.Attention all. Here is the questionnaire to this thread.
Think how guevaraj's confession relates to these questions

=====================================
Paul's "Spirit" is Jesus as the model "Spirit" for us to be doing likewise.
Paul's "Spirit" is the Holy Spirit as an excuse to do our own thing different from Jesus.
=======================================

geuvaraj now admits that the indwelling Person within him as well as in and me is THE HOLY SPIRIT.

But does he now have TWO divine Spirits within him??
I mean in addition to the indwelling Holy Spirit living in geuvaraj has he an ADDITION divine Spirit
dwelling in him called a the Spirit?

Let us realize that the Spirit is the all-inclusive Spirit as the ultimate expression of the Triune God
now reaching INTO man and supplying to man. He has many titles because He is SO very rich.

Paul spoke of "the BOUNTIFUL SUPPLY of the Spirit of Jesus Cbrist." [my caps]
So He is "the Holy Spirit" and some . . . and some . . . and some more - a bountiful supply.

Being an elderly man in prison bound with a chain he was not depressed or ashamed.
He had the Holy Spirit - the Spirit - the Spirit of God - the Spirit of Christ aka Christ bountifully supplying him.

For I know that for me this will turn out to salvation through your petition and the bountiful supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, (Phil 1:19)