What "Spirit" for Paul is a far greater glory than the "letters etched in stone"?

[guevaraj]

We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ (as the model "Spirit" to follow). It is not that we think we are qualified to do anything on our own (like excusing our disobedience of the Ten Commandments as coming from the Holy Spirit). Our qualification comes from God (sending us Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow). He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow). This is a covenant not of the letter (Ten Commandments), but of the Spirit (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow and not the Holy Spirit used as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments when Jesus obeyed them). The letter ends in death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin); but the Spirit (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow) gives life (the removal of sin). The old way (God's "order" by the prophet Moses), with letters etched in stone (Ten Commandments), led to death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin), though it began with such glory (leading to righteousness) that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God (which is His righteousness expressed in the Ten Commandments), even though the brightness was already fading away (Judaism's unwillingness to obey "all" the Ten Commandments). Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow), now that the Holy (added by the translators) Spirit (not the Holy Spirit but Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow) gives life? If the old way (written letters etched in stone), which brings condemnation (Judaism not fully obeying "all" the Ten Commandments by replacing them with human "law"), was glorious (leading to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow), which makes us right with God (removes sin)! In fact, that first glory (which led to righteousness) was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory (leading to righteousness) of the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow). So if the old way (written letters etched in stone), which has been replaced, was glorious (led to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow), which remains forever! Since this new way (of following the model "Spirit" of Jesus, rather than Judaism's human "law") gives us such confidence, we can be very bold (learning to use God's name properly, which Judaism does not). We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory (of God's righteousness), even though it was destined to fade away (by Judaism's unwillingness to obey all the Ten Commandments). But the people’s minds were hardened (to not obey all the Ten Commandments), and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth (of the failure of replacing God's Commandments with their own human law). And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ (as the model "Spirit" to follow). Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand (they failed to obey all of God's Ten Commandments by substituting them with human "law"). But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. For the Lord is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" to follow who obeyed the Ten Commandments as our example and Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (from sin and not from God's Ten Commandments). So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord (in obeying the Ten Commandments). And the Lord—who is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" Paul is telling us to follow and not the Holy Spirit, whose job is to tell us things through prophets and remind us of Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. (2 Corinthians 3:4-18 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)

 

[guevaraj]

The difference Paul speaks of after Jesus than before Jesus is that God is no longer reliant on telling us what to do in the written Ten Commandments in stone that Judaism failed to obey. God, recognizing the failure of the written Ten Commandments on the resulting sons of Hagar in Judaism, now offers instead the superior glory of Jesus showing us what to do through the model "Spirit" of Jesus to follow in God's original desire to have sons of Sarah and not sons of Hagar, made clear in the above passage. Now it is about obeying the previous Ten Commandments as Jesus obeyed them in the Eleventh Commandment, which includes the previous Ten Commandments, instead of us being told in stone, now shown through the model "Spirit" of Jesus, which people wrongly think is the Holy Spirit they are to follow when it is Jesus' exemplary life who is the model "Spirit" to follow made clear in the above passage from Paul. Critical to the proper understanding of this passage is that God is Spirit: Jesus being God is Spirit. What is compared is Jesus' example of obedience to the Ten Commandments as more complete than the written Ten Commandments. The reason the old written law ends in death for Judaism is that they sabotaged God's law to not remove sin that Paul protects against by focusing on sin rather than obeying human law as Judaism did. Judaism obeyed the commandment of not misusing God's name by not pronouncing His name at all. This incomplete obedience skipped the law's purpose to remove sin from our character. They would have learned to use God's name without sinning had they done what God asked instead of replacing what God asked with their own "human effort" to obey that did not remove the sin that doing what God asked would have removed.

 

[guevaraj]

To understand this comparison of the Spirit vs the letter I will use the analogy of replacing a broken window. Replacing a window shows through our common experience how more complete it is to be shown instead of being told what to do. They failed to obey the instructions written in stone as one may fail to properly replace a window without being shown what to do, relying on a brief manual they fail to fully obey. No doubt it is more complete to follow a professional installer's example than partially follow the instructions in a brief manual.

 

[guevaraj]

How did God put the law in our hearts? God did this by having Jesus obey the law as our model "Spirit" for us to do the same as Jesus.

 

[daq]

Testimony is spirit, whether good or evil, (which is why false prophets are generally spoken of as spirits), and the Testimony of the Meshiah is the new Spirit of the renewed covenant, the same "new Spirit" even foretold in Ezekiel the Prophet. It appears that Paul does indeed use "the Spirit" in this manner quite more often than most probably realize. When he does so he is speaking of the Testimony of the Meshiah, but not just the Testimony, (written in letters), rather, the understanding of that Testimony, that is, the Logos contained within the parables, proverbs, metaphors, sayings, idioms, and teachings of the Meshiah as recorded in the Gospel accounts. You cannot see logos with your physical eyes: it is reason and reasoning, the reason for the sayings and the actual intended meaning in the sayings, which is also the Wisdom of Elohim.

 

[guevaraj]

the Testimony of the Meshiah is the new Spirit of the renewed covenant, the same "new Spirit" even foretold in Ezekiel the Prophet. It appears that Paul does indeed use "the Spirit" in this manner quite more often than most probably realize.

Brother, Paul's use of "Spirit" to refer to Jesus is so common that I see it in the following passage in all uses of the word "Spirit" referring to Jesus and not to the Holy Spirit. Even the use of "God" in this context refers to Jesus and not to the Father, as supported by the second passage. Paul is Jesus focused! Paul is not Holy Spirit focused, as many have made him out to be in defense of Sunday in place of the Sabbath. The Sabbath Paul corrects from human tradition in the book of Hebrews.

But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit (Jesus) if you have the Spirit of God (Jesus) living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ (Jesus) living in them do not belong to him at all.) And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit (Jesus) gives you life because you have been made right with God. The Spirit of God (Jesus), who raised Jesus from the dead (Jesus is the resurrection and the life, Jesus raised himself from the dead), lives in you. And just as God (Jesus) raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit (Jesus) living within you. (Romans 8:9-11 NLT)​

Jesus is God, and He tells us in the following passage that He raised himself from the dead.

“The Father loves me because I sacrifice my life so I may take it back again. No one can take my life from me. I sacrifice it voluntarily. For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to and also to take it up again. For this is what my Father has commanded.” (John 10:17-18 NLT)​

In support of the above passage, Jesus is the one responsible for our existence when He tells us He is the "resurrection" and the "life", meaning Jesus is the one to whom our spirits return to when we die.

Jesus told her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die. Do you believe this, Martha?” (John 11:25-26 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Maria Billingsley]

We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ (as the model "Spirit" to follow). It is not that we think we are qualified to do anything on our own (like excusing our disobedience of the Ten Commandments as coming from the Holy Spirit). Our qualification comes from God (sending us Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow). He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow). This is a covenant not of the letter (Ten Commandments), but of the Spirit (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow and not the Holy Spirit used as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments when Jesus obeyed them). The letter ends in death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin); but the Spirit (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow) gives life (the removal of sin). The old way (God's "order" by the prophet Moses), with letters etched in stone (Ten Commandments), led to death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin), though it began with such glory (leading to righteousness) that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God (which is His righteousness expressed in the Ten Commandments), even though the brightness was already fading away (Judaism's unwillingness to obey "all" the Ten Commandments). Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow), now that the Holy (added by the translators) Spirit (not the Holy Spirit but Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow) gives life? If the old way (written letters etched in stone), which brings condemnation (Judaism not fully obeying "all" the Ten Commandments by replacing them with human "law"), was glorious (leading to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow), which makes us right with God (removes sin)! In fact, that first glory (which led to righteousness) was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory (leading to righteousness) of the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow). So if the old way (written letters etched in stone), which has been replaced, was glorious (led to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow), which remains forever! Since this new way (of following the model "Spirit" of Jesus, rather than Judaism's human "law") gives us such confidence, we can be very bold (learning to use God's name properly, which Judaism does not). We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory (of God's righteousness), even though it was destined to fade away (by Judaism's unwillingness to obey all the Ten Commandments). But the people’s minds were hardened (to not obey all the Ten Commandments), and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth (of the failure of replacing God's Commandments with their own human law). And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ (as the model "Spirit" to follow). Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand (they failed to obey all of God's Ten Commandments by substituting them with human "law"). But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. For the Lord is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" to follow who obeyed the Ten Commandments as our example and Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (from sin and not from God's Ten Commandments). So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord (in obeying the Ten Commandments). And the Lord—who is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" Paul is telling us to follow and not the Holy Spirit, whose job is to tell us things through prophets and remind us of Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. (2 Corinthians 3:4-18 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)

The Spirit of Jesus Christ of Nazareth aka His Holy Spirit that dwells in the believer. Blessings.

 

[Divide]

We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ (as the model "Spirit" to follow). It is not that we think we are qualified to do anything on our own (like excusing our disobedience of the Ten Commandments as coming from the Holy Spirit). Our qualification comes from God (sending us Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow). He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow). This is a covenant not of the letter (Ten Commandments), but of the Spirit (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow and not the Holy Spirit used as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments when Jesus obeyed them). The letter ends in death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin); but the Spirit (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow) gives life (the removal of sin). The old way (God's "order" by the prophet Moses), with letters etched in stone (Ten Commandments), led to death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin), though it began with such glory (leading to righteousness) that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God (which is His righteousness expressed in the Ten Commandments), even though the brightness was already fading away (Judaism's unwillingness to obey "all" the Ten Commandments). Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow), now that the Holy (added by the translators) Spirit (not the Holy Spirit but Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow) gives life? If the old way (written letters etched in stone), which brings condemnation (Judaism not fully obeying "all" the Ten Commandments by replacing them with human "law"), was glorious (leading to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow), which makes us right with God (removes sin)! In fact, that first glory (which led to righteousness) was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory (leading to righteousness) of the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow). So if the old way (written letters etched in stone), which has been replaced, was glorious (led to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow), which remains forever! Since this new way (of following the model "Spirit" of Jesus, rather than Judaism's human "law") gives us such confidence, we can be very bold (learning to use God's name properly, which Judaism does not). We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory (of God's righteousness), even though it was destined to fade away (by Judaism's unwillingness to obey all the Ten Commandments). But the people’s minds were hardened (to not obey all the Ten Commandments), and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth (of the failure of replacing God's Commandments with their own human law). And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ (as the model "Spirit" to follow). Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand (they failed to obey all of God's Ten Commandments by substituting them with human "law"). But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. For the Lord is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" to follow who obeyed the Ten Commandments as our example and Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (from sin and not from God's Ten Commandments). So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord (in obeying the Ten Commandments). And the Lord—who is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" Paul is telling us to follow and not the Holy Spirit, whose job is to tell us things through prophets and remind us of Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. (2 Corinthians 3:4-18 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)

The way I understand it, we have a spirit and soul which live in our body. The soul is carnal and at enmity with God. Our spirit gets talked to by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit bears witnedd with our spirit. So our spirit is righteous in Gods eyes.

Pual was Paul. He did a good work for the Lord. But He is nt Jesus and he is not the Holy Spirit. He is Paul and it works the same for all of us.

Your conscience is within your spirit. That's why your spirit (conscience) will always tell you the right thing to do in any situation.

 

[guevaraj]

The Spirit of Jesus Christ of Nazareth aka His Holy Spirit that dwells in the believer. Blessings.

Sister, are you aware that God is "Spirit" in the following passage? That Jesus being God is "Spirit"! God being "Spirit" means the Father is "Spirit", Jesus is "Spirit", and the Holy Spirit is "Spirit". We can now worship in "Spirit", not possible before Jesus, by us doing the same as our model Jesus who is "Spirit" in the flesh for us to copy, doing likewise and, in truth, by obeying the Ten Commandments properly, by following Jesus' example of obedience and not Judaism's example of disobedience. We worship in "Spirit" by obeying as Jesus obeyed, and we worship in truth by obeying as written in letters in stone.

But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way. For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.” (John 4:23-24 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

The way I understand it, we have a spirit and soul which live in our body. The soul is carnal and at enmity with God. Our spirit gets talked to by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit bears witnedd with our spirit. So our spirit is righteous in Gods eyes. Pual was Paul. He did a good work for the Lord. But He is nt Jesus and he is not the Holy Spirit. He is Paul and it works the same for all of us. Your conscience is within your spirit. That's why your spirit (conscience) will always tell you the right thing to do in any situation.

Brother, Paul tells us who we really are, there are not two of you in the struggle. Our renewed "mind" is who we are in the present, and our "flesh" shows who we were until it catches up to the "mind". There would not be a struggle if you were not in the process of changing who you were to who you are.

I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it. (Romans 7:19-20 NLT)​

In the following passage, the struggle is extended to be between the example of Jesus and the flesh, which we learned in the letter to the Romans transforms our "mind" before results are seen in our "flesh". Jesus, as our model to copy, guides us through the guaranteed word of God through prophets. We are not fighting Jesus as our model to do the same as, but are together with Jesus as our model to do the same as fighting what remains of who we were and Jesus has empowered us through His exemplary life to win the battle. The evidence of where we are in our growth is seen in our lives as listed, and we are told to tolerate different stages of growth.

So I say, let the Holy (added by the translators and not found in the original) Spirit (Jesus as our model for us to do the same as Jesus) guide your lives (mind). Then you won’t be doing what your sinful nature craves (flesh). The sinful nature wants to do evil (flesh), which is just the opposite of what the Spirit (Jesus as our model to do the same as Jesus) wants (mind). And the Spirit gives us desires (mind) that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires (flesh). These two forces are constantly fighting each other (struggle), so you are not free to carry out your good intentions (mind). But when you are directed by the Spirit (mind), you are not under obligation to the law (Jesus' many forgivenesses, as our High Priest, allows slow growth unlike the law alone). When you follow the desires of your sinful nature (flesh), the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God. But the Holy (added by the translators and not found in the original) Spirit (Jesus as our model for us to do the same as Jesus) produces this kind of fruit in our lives (mind): love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things! Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature (flesh) to his cross and crucified them there. Since we are living by the Spirit (mind), let us follow the Spirit’s leading in every part of our lives. Let us not become conceited, or provoke one another, or be jealous of one another (slow growth through Jesus). (Galatians 5:16-26 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[daq]

Brother, Paul's use of "Spirit" to refer to Jesus is so common that I see it in the following passage in all uses of the word "Spirit" referring to Jesus and not to the Holy Spirit. Even the use of "God" in this context refers to Jesus and not to the Father, as supported by the second passage. Paul is Jesus focused! Paul is not Holy Spirit focused, as many have made him out to be in defense of Sunday in place of the Sabbath. The Sabbath Paul corrects from human tradition in the book of Hebrews.

But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit (Jesus) if you have the Spirit of God (Jesus) living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ (Jesus) living in them do not belong to him at all.) And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit (Jesus) gives you life because you have been made right with God. The Spirit of God (Jesus), who raised Jesus from the dead (Jesus is the resurrection and the life, Jesus raised himself from the dead), lives in you. And just as God (Jesus) raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit (Jesus) living within you. (Romans 8:9-11 NLT)​

Jesus is God, and He tells us in the following passage that He raised himself from the dead.

“The Father loves me because I sacrifice my life so I may take it back again. No one can take my life from me. I sacrifice it voluntarily. For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to and also to take it up again. For this is what my Father has commanded.” (John 10:17-18 NLT)​

In support of the above passage, Jesus is the one responsible for our existence when He tells us He is the "resurrection" and the "life", meaning Jesus is the one to whom our spirits return to when we die.

Jesus told her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die. Do you believe this, Martha?” (John 11:25-26 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

To many passages disagree with your supposition.

Matthew 3:16-17 ASV
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway from the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him;
17 and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Luke 4:1-2 ASV
1 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan, and was led in the Spirit in the wilderness
2 during forty days, being tempted of the devil. And he did eat nothing in those days: and when they were completed, he hungered.

Luke 4:14-21 KJV
14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and a fame went out concerning him through all the region round about.
15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and he entered, as his custom was, into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And he opened the book, and found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised, [Isa 61:1]
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord. [Isa 61:2a]
20 And he closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant, and sat down: and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, To-day hath this scripture been fulfilled in your ears.

 

[guevaraj]

To many passages disagree with your supposition.

Matthew 3:16-17 ASV
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway from the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him;
17 and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Luke 4:1-2 ASV
1 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan, and was led in the Spirit in the wilderness
2 during forty days, being tempted of the devil. And he did eat nothing in those days: and when they were completed, he hungered.

Luke 4:14-21 KJV
14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and a fame went out concerning him through all the region round about.
15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and he entered, as his custom was, into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And he opened the book, and found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised, [Isa 61:1]
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord. [Isa 61:2a]
20 And he closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant, and sat down: and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, To-day hath this scripture been fulfilled in your ears.

Brother, these passages you mentioned say that the Holy Spirit was with Jesus as He is with the prophets. Jesus gets messages from God through the Holy Spirit as Paul was also called to be a prophet. Paul's call to be a prophet is in the following passage where God would use him to tell us what God would "show" Him "in the future"!

Now get to your feet! For I have appeared to you to appoint you as my servant and witness. Tell people that you have seen me, and tell them what I will show you in the future. (Acts 26:16 NLT)​

Paul is a prophet after Moses when the people asked that God not speak directly to them so that they would not die.

Moses continued, “The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him. For this is what you yourselves requested of the LORD your God when you were assembled at Mount Sinai. You said, ‘Don’t let us hear the voice of the LORD our God anymore or see this blazing fire, for we will die.’ “Then the LORD said to me, ‘What they have said is right. I will raise up a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites. I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell the people everything I command him. I will personally deal with anyone who will not listen to the messages the prophet proclaims on my behalf. But any prophet who falsely claims to speak in my name or who speaks in the name of another god must die.’ “But you may wonder, ‘How will we know whether or not a prophecy is from the LORD?’ If the prophet speaks in the LORD’s name but his prediction does not happen or come true, you will know that the LORD did not give that message. That prophet has spoken without my authority and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:15-22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[B Griffin]

We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ (as the model "Spirit" to follow). It is not that we think we are qualified to do anything on our own (like excusing our disobedience of the Ten Commandments as coming from the Holy Spirit). Our qualification comes from God (sending us Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow). He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow). This is a covenant not of the letter (Ten Commandments), but of the Spirit (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow and not the Holy Spirit used as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments when Jesus obeyed them). The letter ends in death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin); but the Spirit (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow) gives life (the removal of sin). The old way (God's "order" by the prophet Moses), with letters etched in stone (Ten Commandments), led to death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin), though it began with such glory (leading to righteousness) that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God (which is His righteousness expressed in the Ten Commandments), even though the brightness was already fading away (Judaism's unwillingness to obey "all" the Ten Commandments). Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow), now that the Holy (added by the translators) Spirit (not the Holy Spirit but Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow) gives life? If the old way (written letters etched in stone), which brings condemnation (Judaism not fully obeying "all" the Ten Commandments by replacing them with human "law"), was glorious (leading to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow), which makes us right with God (removes sin)! In fact, that first glory (which led to righteousness) was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory (leading to righteousness) of the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow). So if the old way (written letters etched in stone), which has been replaced, was glorious (led to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow), which remains forever! Since this new way (of following the model "Spirit" of Jesus, rather than Judaism's human "law") gives us such confidence, we can be very bold (learning to use God's name properly, which Judaism does not). We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory (of God's righteousness), even though it was destined to fade away (by Judaism's unwillingness to obey all the Ten Commandments). But the people’s minds were hardened (to not obey all the Ten Commandments), and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth (of the failure of replacing God's Commandments with their own human law). And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ (as the model "Spirit" to follow). Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand (they failed to obey all of God's Ten Commandments by substituting them with human "law"). But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. For the Lord is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" to follow who obeyed the Ten Commandments as our example and Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (from sin and not from God's Ten Commandments). So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord (in obeying the Ten Commandments). And the Lord—who is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" Paul is telling us to follow and not the Holy Spirit, whose job is to tell us things through prophets and remind us of Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. (2 Corinthians 3:4-18 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)

If salvation through obedience to the law was possible, then Jesus would not have sacrifice Himself for our sins (references available if needed). God chose, without receiving any outside counsel, to save only those who rest all their hope in Christ (references available if needed). When by grace through faith God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ come to live in a person's heart (in the person of the Holy Spirit), making him a new creation, then that person sees the glory of the Lord as in a mirror because he actually participates in God's glory. The glories of this reality are only seen by those in whom He lives. Therefore, the answer to your question is, "None of the Above".

 

[daq]

Brother, these passages you mentioned say that the Holy Spirit was with Jesus as He is with the prophets. Jesus gets messages from God through the Holy Spirit as Paul was also called to be a prophet. Paul's call to be a prophet is in the following passage where God would use him to tell us what God would "show" Him "in the future"!

Now get to your feet! For I have appeared to you to appoint you as my servant and witness. Tell people that you have seen me, and tell them what I will show you in the future. (Acts 26:16 NLT)​

Paul is a prophet after Moses when the people asked that God not speak directly to them so that they would not die.

Moses continued, “The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him. For this is what you yourselves requested of the LORD your God when you were assembled at Mount Sinai. You said, ‘Don’t let us hear the voice of the LORD our God anymore or see this blazing fire, for we will die.’ “Then the LORD said to me, ‘What they have said is right. I will raise up a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites. I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell the people everything I command him. I will personally deal with anyone who will not listen to the messages the prophet proclaims on my behalf. But any prophet who falsely claims to speak in my name or who speaks in the name of another god must die.’ “But you may wonder, ‘How will we know whether or not a prophecy is from the LORD?’ If the prophet speaks in the LORD’s name but his prediction does not happen or come true, you will know that the LORD did not give that message. That prophet has spoken without my authority and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:15-22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

In order for us to have a coherent and logical discussion it is necessary for us to have some common denominators. The most important common denominator in a discussion is the language which we agree to use in our discussion. It is one thing to say that a Hebrew or a Greek word might not mean what English translators might say it means: but it is an entirely different thing to start changing the meanings of words in the language we have agreed to use in our discussion, and in this case that language is English.

In the English language dead means dead, not almost dead, or only appearing to be dead, no, it means there is no remaining life force in whatever the person or thing might be, whether a dog, or a cat, or a human being, or even Elohim. When something is dead it has no more life force because the life force has been completely extinguished. Things that are dead are dead: they cannot raise themselves from the dead because there is no life force remaining in the person or thing that is dead.

You've made it impossible to even have a logical discussion with you, where we can come to logical concepts, ideas, propositions, and conclusions: for you have subverted the one common denominator we had, the language we are using to have this discussion, for you have changed the very simple meanings of die, death, and dead, in order to support your theory. No logical discussion or logical reasoning is possible with one who subverts the only common denominator we have at our disposal here, that is, the English language.

Correct your concept of dead back to its English meaning and perhaps we might be able to continue.

 

[guevaraj]

If salvation through obedience to the law was possible, then Jesus would not have sacrifice Himself for our sins (references available if needed). God chose, without receiving any outside counsel, to save only those who rest all their hope in Christ (references available if needed). When by grace through faith God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ come to live in a person's heart (in the person of the Holy Spirit), making him a new creation, then that person sees the glory of the Lord as in a mirror because he actually participates in God's glory. The glories of this reality are only seen by those in whom He lives. Therefore, the answer to your question is, "None of the Above".

Brother, Paul tells us, we are our renewed "mind" in the present, and our "flesh" shows who we were until it catches up to the "mind". There would not be a struggle if you were not in the process of changing who you were to who you are. The "Spirit" that gives us life is not the popular understanding of the Holy Spirit who is silent on Sunday replacing the Sabbath. Jesus is the model "Spirit" to do the same as to live by the "Spirit". The translators in the following passage are not helping us understand by adding the word "Holy" before the word "Spirit" because of this popular misunderstanding of Paul's use of "Spirit" to refer to Jesus being replaced with the Holy Spirit to not do the same as Jesus.

I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it. (Romans 7:19-20 NLT)​

In the following passage, the struggle is extended to be between the example of Jesus and the flesh, which we learned in the letter to the Romans transforms our "mind" before results are seen in our "flesh". Jesus, as our model to copy, guides us through the guaranteed word of God through prophets. We are not fighting Jesus as our model to do the same as, but are together with Jesus as our model to do the same as fighting what remains of who we were and Jesus has empowered us through His exemplary life to win the battle. The evidence of where we are in our growth is seen in our lives as listed, and we are told to tolerate different stages of growth.

So I say, let the Holy (added by the translators and not found in the original) Spirit (Jesus as our model for us to do the same as Jesus) guide your lives (mind). Then you won’t be doing what your sinful nature craves (flesh). The sinful nature wants to do evil (flesh), which is just the opposite of what the Spirit (Jesus as our model to do the same as Jesus) wants (mind). And the Spirit gives us desires (mind) that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires (flesh). These two forces are constantly fighting each other (struggle), so you are not free to carry out your good intentions (mind). But when you are directed by the Spirit (mind), you are not under obligation to the law (Jesus' many forgivenesses, as our High Priest, allows slow growth unlike the law alone). When you follow the desires of your sinful nature (flesh), the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God. But the Holy (added by the translators and not found in the original) Spirit (Jesus as our model for us to do the same as Jesus) produces this kind of fruit in our lives (mind): love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things! Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature (flesh) to his cross and crucified them there. Since we are living by the Spirit (mind), let us follow the Spirit’s leading in every part of our lives. Let us not become conceited, or provoke one another, or be jealous of one another (slow growth through Jesus). (Galatians 5:16-26 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

In order for us to have a coherent and logical discussion it is necessary for us to have some common denominators. The most important common denominator in a discussion is the language which we agree to use in our discussion. It is one thing to say that a Hebrew or a Greek word might not mean what English translators might say it means: but it is an entirely different thing to start changing the meanings of words in the language we have agreed to use in our discussion, and in this case that language is English.

In the English language dead means dead, not almost dead, or only appearing to be dead, no, it means there is no remaining life force in whatever the person or thing might be, whether a dog, or a cat, or a human being, or even Elohim. When something is dead it has no more life force because the life force has been completely extinguished. Things that are dead are dead: they cannot raise themselves from the dead because there is no life force remaining in the person or thing that is dead.

You've made it impossible to even have a logical discussion with you, where we can come to logical concepts, ideas, propositions, and conclusions: for you have subverted the one common denominator we had, the language we are using to have this discussion, for you have changed the very simple meanings of die, death, and dead, in order to support your theory. No logical discussion or logical reasoning is possible with one who subverts the only common denominator we have at our disposal here, that is, the English language.

Correct your concept of dead back to its English meaning and perhaps we might be able to continue.

Brother, I let the Bible define its own words and do not rely on human definitions of the words God uses. The best example of this is the Greek word "pistis" God has made ambiguous for two Hebrew words where it can mean "belief" and not always "faith". "Righteousness by faith/belief (pistis)" is a mistake in translating Paul's revelation of an ambiguous word in the Greek New Testament that can mean "belief" and must not always be translated as "faith". Our prophetess Ellen white told us what it is in the following passage.

Ellen White was much in the field during the next two years, endeavoring to lead the churches and conferences to a deeper, fuller understanding of the important message of righteousness by faith. She spoke of this Bible truth as one which, though “new to many minds,” was in reality “old truth in new Framework.” (Ellen G. White, The Review and Herald, July 23, 1889, reprinted in Selected Messages, B. 1, p. 355)​

"Righteousness by faith/belief (pistis)" is a repackaging of the Greek New Testament with an ambiguous Greek word "pistis" for the old truth in Hebrew of "faith" not being "belief" alone in the following passage.

You say you have faith (pistis), for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith (pistis) without good deeds is inactive? Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his belief (pistis) and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith (pistis) complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed (pisteuó) God, and God credited to him as righteousness (work).” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do (faith), not by belief (pistis) alone. (James 2:19-24 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in the hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Divide]

Brother, Paul tells us who we really are, there are not two of you in the struggle. Our renewed "mind" is who we are in the present, and our "flesh" shows who we were until it catches up to the "mind". There would not be a struggle if you were not in the process of changing who you were to who you are.

I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it. (Romans 7:19-20 NLT)​

In the following passage, the struggle is extended to be between the example of Jesus and the flesh, which we learned in the letter to the Romans transforms our "mind" before results are seen in our "flesh". Jesus, as our model to copy, guides us through the guaranteed word of God through prophets. We are not fighting Jesus as our model to do the same as, but are together with Jesus as our model to do the same as fighting what remains of who we were and Jesus has empowered us through His exemplary life to win the battle. The evidence of where we are in our growth is seen in our lives as listed, and we are told to tolerate different stages of growth.

So I say, let the Holy (added by the translators and not found in the original) Spirit (Jesus as our model for us to do the same as Jesus) guide your lives (mind). Then you won’t be doing what your sinful nature craves (flesh). The sinful nature wants to do evil (flesh), which is just the opposite of what the Spirit (Jesus as our model to do the same as Jesus) wants (mind). And the Spirit gives us desires (mind) that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires (flesh). These two forces are constantly fighting each other (struggle), so you are not free to carry out your good intentions (mind). But when you are directed by the Spirit (mind), you are not under obligation to the law (Jesus' many forgivenesses, as our High Priest, allows slow growth unlike the law alone). When you follow the desires of your sinful nature (flesh), the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God. But the Holy (added by the translators and not found in the original) Spirit (Jesus as our model for us to do the same as Jesus) produces this kind of fruit in our lives (mind): love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things! Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature (flesh) to his cross and crucified them there. Since we are living by the Spirit (mind), let us follow the Spirit’s leading in every part of our lives. Let us not become conceited, or provoke one another, or be jealous of one another (slow growth through Jesus). (Galatians 5:16-26 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, Paul tells us, we are our renewed "mind" in the present, and our "flesh" shows who we were until it catches up to the "mind". There would not be a struggle if you were not in the process of changing who you were to who you are.

(To who you are in Christ!) . Let's look at what Romans says

Romans 12:2
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.../KJV

Your flesh can not catch up with your mind unless you are transformed by th renewing of your mind. This only takes place when you are readong His word regularly and have only God on your mind. You have repented from your sins, and have turned from them, so that is not being conformed to the world. So you immerse yourself in the word of God. Chruch dont count, videos dont count, only one on one time with the Lord in the Word.

Then your flesh can catch up with your mind. Just, after you renew it!

 

[Gary K]

(To who you are in Christ!) . Let's look at what Romans says

Romans 12:2
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.../KJV

Your flesh can not catch up with your mind unless you are transformed by th renewing of your mind. This only takes place when you are readong His word regularly and have only God on your mind. You have repented from your sins, and have turned from them, so that is not being conformed to the world. So you immerse yourself in the word of God. Chruch dont count, videos dont count, only one on one time with the Lord in the Word.

Then your flesh can catch up with your mind. Just, after you renew it!

I think you misinterpret what Paul says. Our flesh will never keep up with our spirit until Jesus comes.

1Corinthians 15: 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Only at that time will our sinful nature be changed;

 

[Divide]

I think you misinterpret what Paul says. Our flesh will never keep up with our spirit until Jesus comes.

That's a given I thought. But another place it says the bride has made herself ready. So there is participation required by us for our ongoing sanctification. WHich is a process and takes time.

The Lord isn't expecting us to be perfect here. Just that we make a continual diligent effort,
This planet and all of its temptations is nothing that any man could do. It might have been designed for us to fail here,

 

[daq]

Brother, I let the Bible define its own words and do not rely on human definitions of the words God uses. The best example of this is the Greek word "pistis" God has made ambiguous for two Hebrew words where it can mean "belief" and not always "faith". "Righteousness by faith/belief (pistis)" is a mistake in translating Paul's revelation of an ambiguous word in the Greek New Testament that can mean "belief" and must not always be translated as "faith". Our prophetess Ellen white told us what it is in the following passage.

Ellen White was much in the field during the next two years, endeavoring to lead the churches and conferences to a deeper, fuller understanding of the important message of righteousness by faith. She spoke of this Bible truth as one which, though “new to many minds,” was in reality “old truth in new Framework.” (Ellen G. White, The Review and Herald, July 23, 1889, reprinted in Selected Messages, B. 1, p. 355)​

"Righteousness by faith/belief (pistis)" is a repackaging of the Greek New Testament with an ambiguous Greek word "pistis" for the old truth in Hebrew of "faith" not being "belief" alone in the following passage.

You say you have faith (pistis), for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith (pistis) without good deeds is inactive? Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his belief (pistis) and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith (pistis) complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed (pisteuó) God, and God credited to him as righteousness (work).” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do (faith), not by belief (pistis) alone. (James 2:19-24 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in the hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

That is an argument over a Greek word and its rendering in English. It is not an argument about the meaning of an English word. Are you suggesting that the words employed in the Greek text for die, dying, death, dead, a dead body, etc., are not rendered correctly in English translations?

Would it not be much better to simply admit it if you do not fully understand the passage you quoted to make your assertion, (John 10:17-18), rather than to change the definition of what it means to be dead in the English language?

Is the following English rendering correct in your opinion?

Revelation 1:18 KJV
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; [G3498 νεκρος] and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Dead means dead in the English language, and what is dead cannot raise itself or himself from the dead: and if you say that dead does not really mean the same thing when it comes to the Meshiah, then you are making what is called a special pleading argument, another logical fallacy.