What scriptures support praying to the saints?

[Incariol]

When you say that Mary was immaculately conceived, that she was sinless, that she was assumed bodily into heaven, that she is co-mediatrix with Christ, that she receives prayers, adoration, honors, etc., etc., all due to God alone, you make her equal to Christ. This is blasphemy.

Good thing nobody is giving Mary things that belong to God alone, then.

Only the first part of the "Hail Mary" is Scriptural. But it was merely the angel Gabriel's salutation to her at the annunciation.

Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of death. Amen.

Yeah, a prayer request is just sooooo unscriptural. /sarcasm

 

[jackmt]

I find it hard to believe that you were admitted to a Catholic seminary with such a basic misunderstanding of RC Mariology. You do understand this is all nonsense from a Jack Chick tract and not anything remotely like what the RCC actually believes?

I will await your response to my next posting before I respond. Will you answer it point by point?

 

[jackmt]

I supplicate you, Lady now, I fervently entreat you.
O Queen of all, I earnestly implore and seek your favor.
O gracious Maiden, spotless one, O Lady Panagia.
I call upon you ardently , O holy hallowed Temple.
O help me and deliver me protect me rom the enemy.
And make me an inheritor of blessed life eternal.

Blasphemy. You pray to Mary. You seek her grace and protection. You worship her. Etc. You demonstrate all my points. How is she not elevated to deity in the RCC? I am done with you and your foolishness.

 

[Incariol]

Blasphemy. You demonstrate all my points. I am done with you and your foolishness.

The ability to tolerate dissenting opinions and engage in discussion beyond making attacking statements is the hallmark of an educated and realistic individual.

 

[Incariol]

Blasphemy.

No.

You pray to Mary.

And I am so happy to have the holy Virgin as my intercessor. The communion of saints is truly wondrous!

You seek her grace and protection.

Yep!

You worship her.

No, sorry browski.

Etc. You demonstrate all my points.

Except you pulled "you worship her" out of nowhere and I didn't demonstrate it.

How is she not elevated to deity in the RCC?

The RCC don't worship her. Since you made the claim that you were RCC and even in seminary, you should have picked this up...

I am done with you and your foolishness.

“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” --Jalal al-Din Rumi

 

[jackmt]

The ability to tolerate dissenting opinions and engage in discussion beyond making attacking statements is the hallmark of an educated and realistic individual.

Sarcasm is not a dissenting opinion. It is an indication of an inability to respond to the case laid out, as you have consistently failed to do.

 

[Incariol]

Sarcasm is not a dissenting opinion. It is an indication of an inability to respond to the case laid out, as you have consistently failed to do.

I'm not the one acting outraged and melodramatically declaring: "Blasphemy. You demonstrate all my points. I am done with you and your foolishness". I think you need to stop projecting, I am not the one making fiat declarations that beliefs are blasphemous and refusing to engage with an actual argument, you are.

 

[Incariol]

"You do not understand how the saints in Heaven can hear us when we pray to them. But how do the rays of the sun bend down from Heaven to us, lighting everything throughout the earth? The saints in the spiritual world are like the rays of the sun in the material world. God is the eternal, life-giving Sun, and the saints are the rays of this wise Sun. As the eyes of the Lord are constantly looking upon the earth and upon terrestrial beings, so also the eyes of the saints cannot but turn towards the same direction as the provident gaze of the Lord of all creatures towards where their treasures (their bodies, their works, the holy places, and the persons devoted to them) are to be found. "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." --St John of Kronstadt, My Life in Christ

 

[Fireinfolding]

Rejoice!

O Virgin Pure-Orthodox Byantine Chant - YouTube

Refrain: O Rejoice Bride unwedded.
O Virgin pure, immaculate, O Lady Theotokos. (Refrain)
O fleece bedewed with every grace. O Virgin Queen and Mother.(Refrain)
More radiant that the rays of the sun, and higher than the heavens. (Refrain)
O joy of virgin choruses, superior to the angels. (Refrain)
O brighter than the firmament and purer that the sun's light. (Refrain)
More holy than the multitude of all the heavenly armies. (Refrain)



O ever virgin Mary of all the world, the Lady.(Refrain)
O Bride all pure immaculate, O Lady Panagia. (Refrain)
O Mary Bride and Queen of all, the cause of our rejoicing. (Refrain)
O noble Maiden, gracious Queen,
supremely holy Mother. (Refrain)
More honored than the Cherubim,
beyond compare more glorious(Refrain)
Than the unbodied Seraphim, transcending the angelic Thrones. (Refrain)

Rejoice, the song of Cherubim rejoice,
the hymn of angels
Rejoice the ode of Seraphim; the joy of the archangels.
Rejoice, O peace and happiness and cause of our rejoicing.
O sacred chamber of the Word, the flower of incorruption.
Rejoice, delightful Paradise of blessed life eternal.
Rejoice O sacred Tree of life and fount of immortality.

I supplicate you, Lady now, I fervently entreat you.
O Queen of all, I earnestly implore and seek your favor.
O gracious Maiden, spotless one, O Lady Panagia.
I call upon you ardently , O holy hallowed Temple.
O help me and deliver me protect me rom the enemy.
And make me an inheritor of blessed life eternal.

Yes indeed rejoice as Mary herself is an excellent example of rejoicing

Luke 1:37 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Mary was blessed among women. However, I feel she is a victim of all the overthetop displaced devotions we see today. It appears a strange doctrine of worship formed around her which ressembles another gospel, given nothing of it is in the scriptures or mentioned of the true apostles of the Lord. Her being the sinless advocate (which is Jesus place) and of a profession of another resurrection (ie her assumption) when the true gospel is of His resurrection.

I believe that to wish someone God speed in the displacement (of Jesus Christ) would be to be a partaker of evil as John says, but also confirmed by Pauls words concerning another gospel (and that either by we, or an angel from heaven)

Hail chairo

3, God speed


The Angel could say God speed to Mary because her devotions were not displaced... as she herself says...My spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. Mary got it right

I highly doubt the angel would say the same to this other stuff.

Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Same with Peter (whether it be man or angel)

Acts 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.

Acts 10:26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

And Mary would do no less then the Angel or Peter

John 2:5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.


Might be wise just to follow her example and worship God, not her.

But I know how it is, being a former catholic, in a household of them. And I just got news the other day as I was telling someone, that my sister just come to the Lord.

Im so thrilled and so I rejoice as well

And for this I too will give praise but to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!

I give thanks to you my great God for hearing my prayer and calling my sister to yourself. You are truly a God who hears and answers prayer! Blessed be the God who opens eyes, ears and hearts I so thank you, and for your great goodness and your eternal unchanging power! May every knee follow suit and bow to the most blessed name of your Son Jesus Christ to your very own glory.

Thank you (thank you) thank you! You are so faithful and true, Thank YOU FOREVER FOR YOUR GREAT LOVE in the name of your MOST blessed Son Jesus Christ

The Passion - Worthy Is The Lamb - YouTube

^Because of this^ He is worthy of every ounce of our worship.

 

[Chany]

When you say that Mary was immaculately conceived, that she was sinless, that she was assumed bodily into heaven, that she is co-mediatrix with Christ, that she receives prayers, adoration, honors, etc., etc., all due to God alone, you make her equal to Christ. This is blasphemy.

Only the first part of the "Hail Mary" is Scriptural. But it was merely the angel Gabriel's salutation to her at the annunciation.

Apparently you didn't read any of the article.

Let's break down the Hail Mary.

"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee."

Already shown to be biblical.

"Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus."

Luke 1:41-42

"Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death. Amen."


Asking for her intercession.


I don't understand how bashing Jesus' mother makes Him any better. Jesus is the Son of God, part of the Divine Trinity. He is whole man, yet He is whole divine. Mary, by making her free from original sin, does not make her God. She is not divine and she can never be divine. She is entirely human. By being free from original sin, she does not have the flaws and inclination towards sin that we do. She is what humans were intended to be before the fall of Adam and Eve.


Immaculate Conception and Assumption | Catholic Answers


Why Catholics Believe in the Immaculate Conception


You probably won't read these, but this is for anyone who will.

 

[Chany]

Yes indeed rejoice as Mary herself is an excellent example of rejoicing

Luke 1:37 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Mary was blessed among women. However, I feel she is a victim of all the overthetop displaced devotions we see today. It appears a strange doctrine of worship formed around her which ressembles another gospel, given nothing of it is in the scriptures or mentioned of the true apostles of the Lord. Her being the sinless advocate (which is Jesus place) and of a profession of another resurrection (ie her assumption) when the true gospel is of His resurrection.

I believe that to wish someone God speed in the displacement (of Jesus Christ) would be to be a partaker of evil as John says, but also confirmed by Pauls words concerning another gospel (and that either by we, or an angel from heaven)

Hail chairo

3, God speed


The Angel could say God speed to Mary because her devotions were not displaced... as she herself says...My spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. Mary got it right

I highly doubt the angel would say the same to this other stuff.

Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Same with Peter (whether it be man or angel)

Acts 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.

Acts 10:26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

And Mary would do no less then the Angel or Peter

John 2:5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.


Might be wise just to follow her example and worship God, not her.

But I know how it is, being a former catholic, in a household of them. And I just got news the other day as I was telling someone, that my sister just come to the Lord.

Im so thrilled and so I rejoice as well

And for this I too will give praise but to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!

I give thanks to you my great God for hearing my prayer and calling my sister to yourself. You are truly a God who hears and answers prayer! Blessed be the God who opens eyes, ears and hearts I so thank you, and for your great goodness and your eternal unchanging power! May every knee follow suit and bow to the most blessed name of your Son Jesus Christ to your very own glory.

Thank you (thank you) thank you! You are so faithful and true, Thank YOU FOREVER FOR YOUR GREAT LOVE in the name of your MOST blessed Son Jesus Christ

The Passion - Worthy Is The Lamb - YouTube

^Because of this^ He is worthy of every ounce of our worship.

We do not worship the saints or Mary. If it appears that way, we're sorry. If it appears that our prayers worship them, they do not.

To Acts 10:25-26

Peter was being humble and pointing out the worship is for God alone. It does not say anything about asking for prayers, which is different from God-only praise.

To John 2:5

I do not see how this has to do with anything. All Mary is doing is telling the servants to follow Christ's instructions in relation with the water-wine miracle, not telling them to worship Him.

To Mathew 18:19

I don't understand how this is a restriction. It's saying what God will do if two people on Earth agree on something, not what God won't do if a person on Earth and in heaven agree on something. Also, this passage seems to be talking about doctrine issues and issues over teachings, as pointed to in Mathew 18:18, not prayer to the saints. Mathew 18:15-20 actually is a passage used to support the notion that Christ established some sort of visible teaching body a.k.a. the Church.

By the way, what denomination are you? Just curious so I can better understand your beliefs.

 

[Thekla]

Christ is worthy of our worship because He is God, the 'second' of the Holy Trinity.

Even without the crucifixion, He is worthy of our worship !!!!!

His crucifixion describes in action that God is love; likewise every action of the Godman Christ describes in action the love of God.

Only God is to be given worship.

To value His gifts to us, including those who serve Him, is right.

What from God should we not give thanks for; what from God should we refuse to respect ?

His mother ? The prophets ? The apostles ? The Scriptures ? The creation ?

Which of the above from God is not on your list to give thanks for to Him ?

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Thank you (thank you) thank you! You are so faithful and true, Thank YOU FOREVER FOR YOUR GREAT LOVE in the name of your MOST blessed Son Jesus Christ

The Passion - Worthy Is The Lamb - YouTube

^Because of this^ He is worthy of every ounce of our worship.

Solus Christus!

 

[Fireinfolding]

We do not worship the saints or Mary. If it appears that way, we're sorry. If it appears that our prayers worship them, they do not.

To Acts 10:25-26

Peter was being humble and pointing out the worship is for God alone. It does not say anything about asking for prayers, which is different from God-only praise.

To John 2:5

I do not see how this has to do with anything. All Mary is doing is telling the servants to follow Christ's instructions in relation with the water-wine miracle, not telling them to worship Him.

To Mathew 18:19

I don't understand how this is a restriction. It's saying what God will do if two people on Earth agree on something, not what God won't do if a person on Earth and in heaven agree on something. Also, this passage seems to be talking about doctrine issues and issues over teachings, as pointed to in Mathew 18:18, not prayer to the saints. Mathew 18:15-20 actually is a passage used to support the notion that Christ established some sort of visible teaching body a.k.a. the Church.

By the way, what denomination are you? Just curious so I can better understand your beliefs.

Hi there John 2:5 really has nothing to do with anything at all, but since theres hardly a word to quote from Mary, and she is backing Jesus up there I felt it best to quote her where she tells others to do what he says. And yes, it becomes absolutely irrelevant if you believe she would say otherwise in any other situation. But since every molehill of a word she speaks becomes this mountain of worship toward her, I thought quoting her would be a good idea. But I find it a little amusing how what she said there (in relation to obedience to Christ) would be so easily set aside "to the actaul context" where nothing else ever is. And I was just observing to see how that works, and I thank you for showing me.

Theres not one denomination I agree with 100% however I can agree with every denomination (including yours) "on something". So to say I am of "this denomination" or "that denomination" is futile because it wont help you better understand my beliefs, but maybe that will help you some, Im not sure. Im not of the mindset that God only rains on my particular puddle that I splash around in (as in the one true puddle of God). I acknowledge the body of Christ wherever there are those devoted to him, I have two favorite catholic posters here and I consider them brothers in the Lord because they bear beautiful fruit and I agree with alot of what they write. One thing they have in common is not all this overthetop Mary worship and I can respect that and because of that I can easily attend to their words, they bless me. But really (to me) someone could dwell where Satan has his seat but there will always be the few (even there as Jesus points out) who have not defiled their garments and remain faithful to Jesus Christ. Even Jude speaks of spots in your feasts of charity and these feasting with you, so really... I honestly dont get that. Jesus said the wheat and the tares grow together and that His disciples would be known by their fruit (not their denominations). Even as Jude speaks of spots in your feasts of charty (wherever they may be) as trees without fruit and are twicedead. Its not where you abide (as these) its who any of us abide in and Jesus said, "Me and my words".

I have close freindships with those of various denominations who love Jesus Christ, I dont separate myself from any of them, I just take note of the certain in each (wherever they come from) and I havent a qualm in the world with calling upon the Lord with any of them, the Spirit bears witness of them and they are such a blessing. Im grateful to God they too dont take that separatist mindset, of I am of the true, if you belong to Christ and bearing the fruit of the Spirit I could care less about where you park your rearend on Sundays. I dont assume every christian (including catholics, as I have met some) who believe everything they hear. I know some that prove all things, and they do have the ability to eat the chicken and spit out the bones. I can appreciate that in every believer in Jesus Christ, even he commends the trying of those who say they are apostles and were not but these found them liars, and he was like, Good job

 

[Fireinfolding]

Solus Christus!

Amen sis

Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

Rev 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
　

 

[Fireinfolding]

Christ is worthy of our worship because He is God, the 'second' of the Holy Trinity.

Only God is to be given worship.

To value His gifts to us, including those who serve Him, is right.

What from God should we not give thanks for; what from God should we refuse to respect ?

His mother ? The prophets ? The apostles ? The Scriptures ? The creation ?

Which of the above from God is not on your list to give thanks for to Him ?

Theres nothing wrong with giving thanks to Him for all things

 

[Fireinfolding]

I do save quotes of some of the most wonderful catholics for example Yarddog, notice (and he is consistent)

Walking in the Spirit is letting go of all that is worldly and embracing Jesus Christ and turning over our spirits to the control of the Holy Spirit, who lives within God's children.

But many Christians of all of our Churches don't get this message. Hopefully, more people will be able to see as your spirit does and recognize the Holy Spirit in people who belong to other Christian Churches. I know of many Catholics who fail at this.

He is probrobly the most impartial and enlightened catholics I have ever read (to be quite honest). There are others, just few and far between, but even he acknowledges the many in his sphere (puddle, or whatever you want to call it) fail at reccognizing this. All seem to, I dont take offense at that observation, I agree with him.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Amen sis

Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

Rev 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
　

AMEN!!!!!

 

[Ave Maria]

I have a Catholic Doctrinal Concordance on my computer for my E-Sword program and it lists some verses in support of praying to the Saints. Here are a few of the verses:

Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, and also for me, that utterance may be given me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains; that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak.
(Ephesians 6:18-20 RSV)

I appeal to you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf, that I may be delivered from the unbelievers in Judea, and that my service for Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints, so that by God's will I may come to you with joy and be refreshed in your company. The God of peace be with you all. Amen.
(Romans 15:30-33 RSV)

And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.
(Revelation 8:3-4 RSV)

To me, the one in Revelation is the most convincing. It clearly says that the saints pray. Who would they be praying for if not for Christians on earth?

 

[jackmt]

I have a Catholic Doctrinal Concordance on my computer for my E-Sword program and it lists some verses in support of praying to the Saints. Here are a few of the verses:

Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, and also for me, that utterance may be given me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains; that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak.
(Ephesians 6:18-20 RSV)

I appeal to you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf, that I may be delivered from the unbelievers in Judea, and that my service for Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints, so that by God's will I may come to you with joy and be refreshed in your company. The God of peace be with you all. Amen.
(Romans 15:30-33 RSV)

And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.
(Revelation 8:3-4 RSV)

To me, the one in Revelation is the most convincing. It clearly says that the saints pray. Who would they be praying for if not for Christians on earth?

The first 2 refer to saints on earth. Saints are the believers in Christ (I Cor.1:2 KJV); i.e., Christians, not dead RCs canonized by the Rome. The context is an allegorical vision; not a good 'proof text.' And it says nothing about saints in heaven.