BTW, it only takes one sin to fall away, right?
Who taught you that?
I mean, one sin before we're saved was enough to condemn us, so one sin after we're saved is enough to condemn us, right? Doesn't this make the New Covenant worse than the Old? Under the Old Covenant, the Israelites were condemned for their actions, but we'd be condemned for our thoughts.
Under the Old, one sin condemned you but they could be forgiven by penance or atonement through sacrifices. We have the one sacrifice through which we can find forgiveness for our sins. We sin today, we can find forgiveness, we sin tomorrow, we can find forgiveness. Hopefully we mature as Christians and learn to walk and run in the Spirit.
Is this really the Good News of Jesus Christ?
It is for me.
Are these the riches of His Grace, that we have to live in fear of sinning?
I don't fear sinning because I have a brother in heaven who intercedes for me. Through Jesus we find forgiveness.
Are we saved by grace only to be placed under the constraints of an even more severely administered law?
If you think that forgiveness for sins is a constraint, have at it.
And what of Romans 8:29-30, which says that God predestined those whom He foreknew to be conformed to the image of Christ. If we can lose our salvation and, thus, our conformity to the image of Christ, then does this mean that God's foreknowledge is wrong? That's open theism, which has historically been condemned as heresy by the Church.
Open theism has to do with man's free will which has not been condemned but what Calvin did was base his theology on parts of scripture and discount others. God cannot be wrong he did predestine to be conformed when Christ came but he also said that not all who hear the Gospel and who sprout will bear fruit.
How about Jude 24, which says that Christ is able to keep us from falling?
God is able to keep us from falling if we don't turn away from him. If we choose another path, he does not stop us.
If we can lose our salvation, does this mean that Christ is able to keep us from falling, but is merely unwilling? How is that consistent with the Biblical description of Christ?
I guess that you just need to read scripture more. Christ is our brother but he says, "Not everyone who calls me "Lord, Lord' will enter the Kingdom of heaven, but only those who do what my Father in heaven wants them to do."
What do you make of Colosians 3:1-4, which promises that if we have been save, we will appear with Christ in glory? It doesn't say "you might appear with Christ in glory, if you don't lose your salvation". It says "you will appear with Christ in glory". Done deal.
Then why does he say in the verses right after those:"Put to death, then, the parts of you that are earthly: immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and the greed that is idolatry.
Because of these the wrath of God is coming [upon the disobedient]. By these you too once conducted yourselves, when you lived in that way. [/b]But now you must put them all away[/b]: anger, fury, malice, slander, and obscene language out of your mouths."
If one only uses a few verses, taken out of context, to build a theology and not reading them all, false theology arises. Yes, we have a promise but that promise is for those who remain in faith.
Philipians 1:6 promises us that if Christ has begun a good work in us, that He will finish it. How does He keep that promise if you believe you can lose your salvation?
Paul does not say anything about promise, he says that he is "confident". That is not "I promise". Paul's letters were meant to encourage the Christians in the Churches which he sent them. Encourage them that Jesus was faithful to us and that we should remain faithful to Jesus.
Paul urges them: "So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent,
work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For God is the one who, for his good purpose,
works in you both to desire and to work. Do everything without grumbling or questioning,
that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine like lights in the world, as you hold on to the word of life,
so that my boast for the day of Christ may be that I did not run in vain or labor in vain."
Yes, Paul knew that not all would remain in faith but that some would fall away. If he knew that all who received Christ would remain in Christ, he would not have to have continually warned them from falling into sin or how to behave as Christians.
Therefore, its value is for you who have faith, but for those without faith: The stone which the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,
How do you explain 1 Peter 1:23, which tells us that when we are born again, we are born of incorruptable seed? If we can lose our salvation, then this seed is corruptable and that promise is not true. [/quote]
The seed is incorruptible but what is the seed? The seed produces fruit but is that fruit good and does it survive. Not according to the Gospel.
Peter goes on to say: "who by the power of God are safeguarded
through faith, to a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the final time. In this you rejoice, although now for a little while you may have to suffer through various trials,
so that the genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold that is perishable even though tested by fire,
may prove to be for praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ."
Will all people's faith, who have gone through the trials prove to be genuine?
Peter says: "Therefore, gird up the loins of your mind, live soberly, and set your hopes completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Like obedient children, do not act in compliance with the desires of your former ignorance but, as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in every aspect of your conduct, for it is written, Be holy because I [am] holy.
" Rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, insincerity, envy, and all slander; like newborn infants,
long for pure spiritual milk so that through it you may grow into salvation, for you have tasted that the Lord is good. Come to him, a living stone, rejected by human beings but chosen and precious in the sight of God, and, like living stones, let yourselves be built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ....Therefore, its value is for you
who have faith, but for those without faith: The stone which the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,
Yes, it is so important to remain in faith.
Read that passage again. The tares are not saved in the first place.
I suggest that you read the right parable. Jesus explains the parable of the sower:
20. The seed sown on rocky ground is the one who hears the word and receives it at once with joy.
21. But he has no root and lasts only for a time. When some tribulation or persecution comes because of the word, he immediately falls away.
22. The seed sown among thorns is the one who hears the word, but then worldly anxiety and the lure of riches choke the word and it bears no fruit.
23. But the seed sown on rich soil is the one who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and yields a hundred or sixty or thirtyfold.
Many people hear the Gospel and turn to Christ for salvation and are baptized into the body but fall away for various reasons. No one can tell who these people are until they fall away. I have heard many many people doing this over the many years that I have been around.
Then you believe in the priesthood of the believer?
The Catholic Church teaches that we are a priesthood.
Think about the consequences of rejecting the Biblical doctrine of eternal security for a moment.
Since there is no biblical doctrine of eternal security, I don't have to reject it. What scripture teaches is salvation for those who have faith.
If our salvation is dependent upon our ability to "hold on", then it's our ability to hold on that is our security, not Christ.
Tell that to Paul and Peter who said that we need to remain in faith. Don't give up, trust in the saving grace of Jesus Christ when the world throws all of its worldly things at you. It is Christ, not us.
The difference is that you believe in your ability to hold on to Christ. We believe in Christ's ability to hold on to us.
No, I know of my weakness and know that I have to remain humble before the Lord, knowing that only through his help can I receive the promise of eternal salvation.
I'll give you a hint: it's in the Council of Trent.
If you understood Trent, you would know that it is not. The conditions set forth in Trent, apply to only those which it was intended to apply to.
I'm sorry, but I don't believe we are.
That doesn't mean that you are not. You are either in the body of Christ or not. If you are not in the body of Christ then you are not a Christian. If you notice, I did not capitalize the "c" in catholic.
I disagree. The Bible has given us four primary ways by which we can "recognize our bretheren":
a) By their testimony
b) By their doctrine
c) By their fruits
d) By their sanctification
That then shows that you lack the perception which comes with the maturity of the Holy Spirit. We are called to grow and stop relying on the milk which infants drink. Grow and start eating solid food.
