What saves a person?

[Bible Highlighter]

Here we go.

There is no such thing as a free will. That is a philosophical idea, mankind is enslaved to their passions and desires. No one ever, ever, chooses to love others and especially to love at their own loss. Christians battle to love others and they constantly avoid the troublesome folk.

God does not force salvation on anyone by the way.

I constantly ask people why they keep sinning. I will not apologize for that, people need to show some personal integrity. You cannot tell others to do what you have not done yourself.

If you have continuous and repetitive sin in your life, you need to confess that. Not act as though only the perfect enter the kingdom of heaven.
Even the apostle Paul did not achieve perfection. You can have a near perfect faith, but a perfect love for others?

Anyone who calls on the name of Jesus will be saved!

A person who calls on Jesus in that moment correctly will be saved. What they do with Jesus after that is up to them. They have to continue to follow Jesus. If they are not following Jesus, they are following themselves and or their sin. Nobody can save themselves by making their own path. We have to follow Jesus and His path.

As for free will:
I believe in Prevenient Grace.
But after we come to God, our free will is not over-written by God.
If it was then you would have never disobeyed even the smallest way with God after coming to the faith. You said yourself you have not seen anyone obey God, so this suggests that nobody really is living a new and regenerated life as you are claiming.

 

[klutedavid]

No. God's Word does not say that minor faults or flaws in character will send us to hell. If you don't take out the trash on time last week, or if you went a little over the speed limit, you are not going to hell for doing that. The Bible is clear on what sins can condemn us. Venturing outside of what the Bible says is to invent things that are not there.

Going over the speed limit is a dangerous thing to do. People die everyday because they were speeding. Driving too fast through school zones is a wicked thing to do.

I need you to retract that statement of yours.

Next you will be saying that drink driving is not a sin.

Is taking heavy illegal drugs a sin?

Is avoiding paying tax and shifting the taxation load, onto other people a sin?

Is loving the things of the world a sin?

 

[justbyfaith]

1 John 5:16.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, correct Jason.

A perfect love of others is not a condition, nor is a perfect holiness.

If you believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. And you confess His name, then you are saved!

That was not all that was required. We see Jesus say that not everyone who says unto me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but he that does the will of the Father. We see Jesus tell certain believers who did wonderful works to depart from him because they also worked iniquity (or sin). Jesus drives home the point even more and says that if we do not do what He says, we are like a fool who built his house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (See Matthew 7). So yeah. I just do not see the greasy grace gospel in this kind of chapter and many others.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Going over the speed limit is a dangerous thing to do. People die everyday because they were speeding. Driving too fast through school zones is a wicked thing to do.

I need you to retract that statement of yours.

Next you will be saying that drink driving is not a sin.

Is taking heavy illegal drugs a sin?

Is avoiding paying tax and shifting the taxation load, onto other people a sin?

Is loving the things of the world a sin?

I said 5 and not 50. Going 5 mph over the speed limit is the same as murder?
Also, going 5 over the speed limit is not considered reckless endangerment of others around you (unless you are in a school zone or something).

Anyways, you really have an odd sense of morality.

Side Note:

Oh, and if you are this upset by such immoral things, then you should realize how much God is upset when a believer sins. Adam and Eve believed in God and yet, their sin separated them from God. They died spiritually the day they sinned and not physically. The bought into the devil's lie that they could sin and still be saved.

 

[KDB47]

Those who practice righteousness are born of God (1 John 2:29).

Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother (1 John 3:10)

'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' (Matthew 7:23)

 

[klutedavid]

A person who calls on Jesus in that moment correctly will be saved. What they do with Jesus after that is up to them. They have to continue to follow Jesus. If they are not following Jesus, they are following themselves and or their sin. Nobody can save themselves by making their own path. We have to follow Jesus and His path.

As for free will:
I believe in Prevenient Grace.
But after we come to God, our free will is not over-written by God.
If it was then you would have never disobeyed even the smallest way with God after coming to the faith. You said yourself you have not seen anyone obey God, so this suggests that nobody really is living a new and regenerated life as you are claiming.

All ministers I have ever heard preach, all admit they sin. I have never met a perfect Christian and I never will, they don't exist.

As I said before, there is no such thing a free will. A will exerted that is free from external influence is impossible. You are a product of your parents and your environment, your will is a conditioned will.

This is why there are so few Christians in muslim countries. They cannot freely choose Jesus because they are taught, that Jesus did not rise from the tomb. No free will has ever been observed, the idea of free will exists only as a concept. But the hard reality of free beings, exerting a free choice, is mere illusion.

 

[klutedavid]

Those who practice righteousness are born of God (1 John 2:29).

Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother (1 John 3:10)

'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' (Matthew 7:23)

Yes KDB47.

We know these verses, but salvation is still a gift that you receive.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

All ministers I have ever heard preach, all admit they sin. I have never met a perfect Christian and I never will, they don't exist.

As I said before, there is no such thing a free will. A will exerted that is free from external influence is impossible. You are a product of your parents and your environment, your will is a conditioned will.

This is why there are so few Christians in muslim countries. They cannot freely choose Jesus because they are taught, that Jesus did not rise from the tomb. No free will has ever been observed, the idea of a free will exists as a concept. But the hard reality of free beings, exerting a free choice is mere illusion.

So you believe in Unconditional Election?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes KDB47.

We know these verses, but salvation is still a gift that you receive.

Yes, you may say you know those verses, but you are not explaining them. You are.... directing the focus away from them by saying salvation is a gift, etc., etc. (all while ignoring how life teaches us that gifts can be lost if we do not take care of the gifts we have been given).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

All ministers I have ever heard preach, all admit they sin. I have never met a perfect Christian and I never will, they don't exist.

As I said before, there is no such thing a free will. A will exerted that is free from external influence is impossible. You are a product of your parents and your environment, your will is a conditioned will.

This is why there are so few Christians in muslim countries. They cannot freely choose Jesus because they are taught, that Jesus did not rise from the tomb. No free will has ever been observed, the idea of free will exists only as a concept. But the hard reality of free beings, exerting a free choice, is mere illusion.

Did not Adam and Eve die spiritually the day they disobeyed God?
Yet, Satan told them the lie that they would not die if they sinned.
Why do you think Satan has changed his tactics?
It doesn't make any sense.
He is still using the same old trick he did back in the Garden.

 

[klutedavid]

I said 5 and not 50. Going 5 mph over the speed limit is the same as murder?
Also, going 5 over the speed limit is not considered reckless endangerment of others around you (unless you are in a school zone or something).

Anyways, you really have an odd sense of morality.

Side Note:

Oh, and if you are this upset by such immoral things, then you should realize how much God is upset when a believer sins. Adam and Eve believed in God and yet, their sin separated them from God. They died spiritually the day they sinned and not physically. The bought into the devil's lie that they could sin and still be saved.

Your missing the point for some reason.

No one is saying that a Christian can sin. All disobedience and whatever that disobedience amounts too, is sin.

Outside of Christ, you sin you die. In Christ, you sin and you cannot die. We cannot sin Jason.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

All ministers I have ever heard preach, all admit they sin. I have never met a perfect Christian and I never will, they don't exist.

Narrow is the way that leads to life and FEW be there that finds it.
Jesus said when He returns, will He find faith on the Earth?
As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the coming of the Son of Man.
The whole world during Noah's time were filled with wicked men. They were destroyed not because they did not have a belief on Jesus but they were destroyed because of their wickedness. Peter says that the flood was an example to all who should live ungodly thereafter. So yeah. It is a lesson for us today. Are you hearing it? My guess is you don't want to hear it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your missing the point for some reason.

No one is saying that a Christian can sin. All disobedience and whatever that disobedience amounts too, is sin.

Outside of Christ, you sin you die. In Christ, you sin and you cannot die. We cannot sin Jason.

I am sorry. That is not how it works.
That is turning God's grace into a license for immorality (See Jude 1:4).

 

[klutedavid]

Narrow is the way that leads to life and FEW be there that finds it.
Jesus said when He returns, will He find faith on the Earth?
As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the coming of the Son of Man.
The whole world during Noah's time were filled with wicked men. They were destroyed not because they did not have a belief on Jesus but they were destroyed because of their wickedness. Peter says that the flood was an example to all who should live ungodly thereafter. So yeah. It is a lesson for us today. Are you hearing it? My guess is you don't want to hear it.

Jesus is the way that leads to life.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus is the way that leads to life.

He sure is and He was manifested to destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8). This would be the works of the devil within a believer's life. We are told to put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Romans 13:14). Jesus saves not only in Justification but also in Sanctification, too.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Most churches believe in OSAS or some form of a sin and still be saved type belief. How do you see that as the narrow way that Jesus talked about?

 

[klutedavid]

I am sorry. That is not how it works.
That is turning God's grace into a license for immorality (See Jude 1:4).

No it's not.

Christians are saved, they cannot sin. If they do sin, then they ask for forgiveness.

You have a strange theology, sinners must die mentality. Given that you sin yourself, it is difficult for me to understand how you do that?

 

[KDB47]

"THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." (Galatians 3:11b)
The JUST are those who practice righteousness are passed from death unto life (born again).

........he who is righteous (practices righteousness), let him be righteous (justified) still
(Revelation 22:11c). God justifies those who practice righteousness. God does not justify those who willfully continue to practice unrighteousness, unless they truly repent.

Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 3:19).
God justifies those who have turned from sin to practice righteousness.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit (Romans 8:1)

If you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live (Romans 8:13).

And the "dead in Christ" shall rise first!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No it's not.

Christians are saved, they cannot sin. If they do sin, then they ask for forgiveness.

You have a strange theology, sinners must die mentality. Given that you sin yourself, it is difficult for me to understand how you do that?

Let's not kid each other here. You know you are not dealing plainly with all the verses in the Bible. If you were, you would explain the verses I have put forth so far that demolishes a sin and still be saved type belief. God is good and He can no more condone a believer's wrong actions under His grace than for cats and dogs to actually rain down physically as a by-product of clouds.