What saves a person?

[setst777]

Why are Catholics a controversial group? They and the Orthodox constituted the original Church back in the time of the apostles. How did they become a controversial group?

Controversial. . .
Firstly, the New Testament is the complete Gospel revelation to us by the command of the Eternal God to give us complete understanding, that we are to contend for, once for entrusted to the saints:

1 Peter 1 (WEB) 10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets sought and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching for who or what kind of time the Spirit of Christ, which was in them, pointed to, when he predicted the sufferings of Christ, and the glories that would follow them. 12 To them it was revealed, that not to themselves, but to you, they ministered these things, which now have been announced to you through those who preached the Good News to you by the Holy Spirit sent out from heaven; which things angels desire to look into.

Romans 15 (WEB)
17 I have therefore my boasting in Christ Jesus in things pertaining to God. 18 For I will not dare to speak of any things except those which Christ worked through me, for the obedience of the Gentiles, by word and deed, 19 in the power of signs and wonders, in the power of God’s Spirit; so that from Jerusalem, and around as far as to Illyricum, I have fully preached the Good News of Christ

Romans 16 (KJV)
25 Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

Ephesians 3 (NIV) Bolding and underlining mine
4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Jude 1 (WEB) Bolding mine… 3 Beloved, while I was very eager to write to you about our salvation, I became burdened to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

So, if some church organization comes along later saying we have more foundation to the Gospel that what was already completely revealed by Lord Jesus and His 12 Apostles as the foundation, then should we not take offense?

Ephesians 2 (NIV) Bolding mine
18 For through him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God, 20 being built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone

Revelation 21 (NIV) Bolding mine 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them twelve names of the twelve Apostles of the Lamb.

So, if some other church body comes along claiming to be the teaching the Gospel, and promotes themselves alone as the dispensers of God's Revelation, then shouldn't they be pointing us to Christ alone as our Mediator whom we must give our pure devotion to, rather than Virgin Mary, St Jude, St Benedict, and so forth.

Ephesians 2:18 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

Philippians 4:6 6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

Hebrews 4 14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are — yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

Hebrews 7:25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Only one mediator between God and man through whom make make all are petitions to God alone...

1 Timothy 2 (WEB) Bolding is mine.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who desires all people to be saved and come to full knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all; the testimony given at its appointed time.

2 Corinthians 11 (NIV)
2 For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy. For I married you to one husband, that I might present you as a pure virgin to Christ. 3 But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve in his craftiness, so your minds might be corrupted from your holy devotion to Christ.

Neither Lord Jesus nor His Apostles ever taught that we must take all our petitions to Virgin Mary, or St. Michael, St. Jude, Saint Benedict etc for our needs, when God himself commanded us to take all our petitions to Him in prayer though our High Priest Christ Jesus. Should this not concern us?

So if the Roman Catholic Church is teaching contrary to the complete revelation of the Gospel in Holy Scripture that God commanded and authored for us, then shouldn't we be concerned?

When Scriptures clearly teach that Bishops are to be the husband of one wife and rule his children well, and to not forbid certain foods, and then the Catholic church comes along and reverses what God ordained in Scripture, shouldn't we be concerned?

1 Timothy 4 New International Version (NIV)
4 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

That these are some major reasons why the Roman Catholic Church is controversial. For just as the Christ Jesus and the Apostles prophesied there would be those that would come after them that would deceive many and would not spare the flock...

Acts 20 (WEB) Bolding mine 28 Take heed, therefore, to yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the assembly of the Lord and [a] God which he purchased with his own blood. 29 For I know that after my departure, vicious wolves will enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Men will arise from among your own selves, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, remembering that for a period of three years I didn’t cease to admonish everyone night and day with tears.

Do you see why the Roman Catholic Church is controversial?

 

[dqhall]

When Scriptures clearly teach that Bishops are to be the husband of one wife and rule his children well, and to not forbid certain foods, and then the Catholic church comes along and reverses what God ordained in Scripture, shouldn't we be concerned?

Do you see why the Roman Catholic Church is controversial?

Given Paul’s recommendations for the selection of bishops, Jesus and Paul would have been excluded. John the Baptist was likely single as well.

Righteousness is determined by obedience to Christ, not marital status.

The Samaritans studied the Torah. They celebrated Passover on Mt. Gerazim instead of Jerusalem. They did not pay the two drachma temple tax. The Samaritans were mixed race. There were differences in doctrine even though they both used Torah scrolls.

Catholics and Protestants do not agree about some things, but they use some of the same scriptures.

Even a Samaritan was justified by faith. He was going down the mountain road from Jerusalem to Jericho and stopped to transport a wounded man to a place of hospitality and made payment for a stranger’s food and lodging.

I am reminded Jesus taught the crowd, “If someone asks you to go a mile, go two miles.” Matthew 5-7, Sermon on the Mount.

When I start to think I am better than one group or another, perhaps I should remember I am a sinner in need of mercy.

 

[klutedavid]

Obviously Jesus saves as he is the only name to call upon to be saved. But what constitutes salvation? What saves a person? Is it believing in the gospel? I.E. the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus? If that's the case than Catholics and SDA's are saved. Is it believing in the Trinity? Ditto to Catholics and SDAs and other controversial groups. Is it trusting in the finished work of Jesus on the cross? If that's required for salvation than Catholics and SDAs are not saved and I believe they are so that can't be it. So what saves a person? Paul says in Romans 10:9 that if we declare Jesus as Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead than we will be saved. So it must be that every person who believes the gospel and calls upon the Lord for salvation will be saved right? Or am I missing something?

Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved!

If the process of salvation is conditional, then I do not believe anyone can be saved. Because if conditions are attached, then, that means some level of sin is taken into account. Hence, if some sin is taken into account, then logically all sin must be considered. If all sin is the condition, then we are back at square one, we once again need a savior.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Obviously Jesus saves as he is the only name to call upon to be saved. But what constitutes salvation? What saves a person? Is it believing in the gospel? I.E. the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus? If that's the case than Catholics and SDA's are saved. Is it believing in the Trinity? Ditto to Catholics and SDAs and other controversial groups. Is it trusting in the finished work of Jesus on the cross? If that's required for salvation than Catholics and SDAs are not saved and I believe they are so that can't be it. So what saves a person? Paul says in Romans 10:9 that if we declare Jesus as Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead than we will be saved. So it must be that every person who believes the gospel and calls upon the Lord for salvation will be saved right? Or am I missing something?

Nowhwere does the Bible use the expression, "finished work of Jesus on the cross."

Our faith should be in Jesus Himself, not a theory about He saves us.

Believe it or not, there IS a difference.

 

[setst777]

Given Paul’s recommendations for the selection of bishops, Jesus and Paul would have been excluded. John the Baptist was likely single as well.

Righteousness is determined by obedience to Christ, not marital status.

The Samaritans studied the Torah. They celebrated Passover on Mt. Gerazim instead of Jerusalem. They did not pay the two drachma temple tax. The Samaritans were mixed race. There were differences in doctrine even though they both used Torah scrolls.

Catholics and Protestants do not agree about some things, but they use some of the same scriptures.

Even a Samaritan was justified by faith. He was going down the mountain road from Jerusalem to Jericho and stopped to transport a wounded man to a place of hospitality and made payment for a stranger’s food and lodging.

I am reminded Jesus taught the crowd, “If someone asks you to go a mile, go two miles.” Matthew 5-7, Sermon on the Mount.

When I start to think I am better than one group or another, perhaps I should remember I am a sinner in need of mercy.

Firstly, Paul was not a bishop, he was an Apostle.

Secondly, the ruling that a Bishop should be the husband of one wife, does not exclude Bishops that do not have wives. But neither does it prohibit a Bishop from having one wife as the Roman Catholic Church clearly prohibits.

If your faith is in something other than the Word of God, then is that the kind of faith that saves. Didn't the Apostles warn the Church in numerous Scriptures to remain true to the doctrine they received from them, and not to be misled by what anyone else told them? Yes, many times.

Blessings

 

[GingerBeer]

Obviously Jesus saves as he is the only name to call upon to be saved. But what constitutes salvation? What saves a person? Is it believing in the gospel? I.E. the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus? If that's the case than Catholics and SDA's are saved. Is it believing in the Trinity? Ditto to Catholics and SDAs and other controversial groups. Is it trusting in the finished work of Jesus on the cross? If that's required for salvation than Catholics and SDAs are not saved and I believe they are so that can't be it. So what saves a person? Paul says in Romans 10:9 that if we declare Jesus as Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead than we will be saved. So it must be that every person who believes the gospel and calls upon the Lord for salvation will be saved right? Or am I missing something?

Believing that Jesus was born, lived a sinless life, died, rose again, and ascended to heaven does not save because even demons believe that nor does believing that God is one save since demons also believe that. But faith working through love does save by the grace of God in Jesus Christ.

 

[GingerBeer]

Why are Catholics a controversial group? They and the Orthodox constituted the original Church back in the time of the apostles. How did they become a controversial group?

They are controversial to Protestant people. Protestants people formed their "Identity" by protesting against Catholic teaching and practise.

 

[salt-n-light]

Obviously Jesus saves as he is the only name to call upon to be saved. But what constitutes salvation? What saves a person? Is it believing in the gospel? I.E. the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus? If that's the case than Catholics and SDA's are saved. Is it believing in the Trinity? Ditto to Catholics and SDAs and other controversial groups. Is it trusting in the finished work of Jesus on the cross? If that's required for salvation than Catholics and SDAs are not saved and I believe they are so that can't be it. So what saves a person? Paul says in Romans 10:9 that if we declare Jesus as Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead than we will be saved. So it must be that every person who believes the gospel and calls upon the Lord for salvation will be saved right? Or am I missing something?

It’s beyond confessing that you believe and trust. It’s also living out your life as one of faith. I can’t speak for the Catholics nor SDA, as all of them still base their faith like any other Christian on the life,death, and resurrection of Jesus.

The most I can touch upon is anything that speaks of how they express that, and that’s case by case. Some are more blantantly wrong, and some may be more legalistic but not inherently sinful. But I can only know the individual by their fruits, it wouldn’t be wise to make blanket statements and question someone’s salvation based on only denomination.

 

[Dave L]

There are only 3 possibilities for salvation.

1) God saves people

2) God and people save people each doing their part

3) people save themselves by doing their part

Most all calling themselves Christian hold to the second position. This includes the "born again movement types", the Catholics, Lutherans, Evangelicals for the most part, and Charismatic groups, cults and what have you.

But scripture teaches the 1st possibility. God saves people wholly by grace from beginning to end.

In the end, # 2 is logically #3, people think they save themselves but give God the credit.

 

[Southernscotty]

Our faith cannot save us without His grace. If you will look closely you will see that we have a really good deal going for us here.
He gives us a free unmerited gift for "Trusting" in him and nothing more.
Jesus last words on the cross were not "It's almost finished" No, They were it is finished! and it is completely finished as far as making atonments and/or doing anything to earn salvation.

We could never earn anything because we are all rotten to the core and full of pride. We are judgmental and our tongues spin like trolling motors spewing hateful and degrading things.
Our very BEST works are as filthy rags to God.
So by trusting in the "only righteous One" ever to walk the earth, We are then saved, because we are trusting in His righteousness that never sinned nor failed in any way.
So adhere yourself to Jesus Christ and trust in Him and you will be clothed in His righteousness and that my friend is what saves us.

 

[JacksBratt]

Obviously Jesus saves as he is the only name to call upon to be saved. But what constitutes salvation? What saves a person? Is it believing in the gospel? I.E. the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus? If that's the case than Catholics and SDA's are saved. Is it believing in the Trinity? Ditto to Catholics and SDAs and other controversial groups. Is it trusting in the finished work of Jesus on the cross? If that's required for salvation than Catholics and SDAs are not saved and I believe they are so that can't be it. So what saves a person? Paul says in Romans 10:9 that if we declare Jesus as Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead than we will be saved. So it must be that every person who believes the gospel and calls upon the Lord for salvation will be saved right? Or am I missing something?

Anybody that believes that Christ is the Son of God, Messiah and that He died for their sins and that He is the only source of salvation and accepts the gift of salvation... is saved..

So, yes, Catholics and SDA's who believe on Christ's work, are saved.

All the other stuff is fluff and human confusion and muddying the waters.

Look at it this way:

You have a bunch of architects...They all know that a building needs to be founded on solid ground, have a roof that holds back rain and snow and walls to keep out the elements.

Now, from this group of architects... some believe that the building must have two stories, some three. Some think that windows should be able to be opened others sealed. Some believe that there should be no below grade living quarters.. others want basement living quarters... Some want bathrooms on each floor, others want bathrooms for each sex, male and female, separate.

All are architects... all have other legalistic ideals that have no bearing on the fact that they are all architects... BUT all will argue that the others don't deserve to be called architects due to their flawed views of architecture.

 

[fhansen]

Obviously Jesus saves as he is the only name to call upon to be saved. But what constitutes salvation? What saves a person? Is it believing in the gospel? I.E. the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus? If that's the case than Catholics and SDA's are saved. Is it believing in the Trinity? Ditto to Catholics and SDAs and other controversial groups. Is it trusting in the finished work of Jesus on the cross? If that's required for salvation than Catholics and SDAs are not saved and I believe they are so that can't be it. So what saves a person? Paul says in Romans 10:9 that if we declare Jesus as Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead than we will be saved. So it must be that every person who believes the gospel and calls upon the Lord for salvation will be saved right? Or am I missing something?

It's a little deeper than that:
"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3

Mans "lostness" has to do with having lost the "knowledge of God". We're born not knowing Him, because Adam, by disobeying God, had essentially dismissed His godhood. And his descendants are now born without inimate relationship with Him, without the vital communion which man was made for.

Jesus came to reconcile this situation, to reveal the true face of God and provide the means for man to re-establish this direct relationship. This relationship itself, and remaining in it, is the central aspect of man becoming justified; it constitues man's basic justice; it's the right order of things. It's the fulfillment of the New Covenant prophecy of Jer 31:34, that we will 'all know Him, from the least to the greatest'. From there He does a work, of 'placing His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts' Jer 31:32. This restablished connection with God begins with faith, the opposite of Adam's dismissal of God and His authority.

Man must come to know God, 'apart from whom we can do nothing' John 15:5, but 'with whom all things are possible', Matt 19:26. This knowledge is fully complete to the extent that we truly love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength. Then we're complete, so to speak, whole again, home again, no longer lost.

We cannot love God unless we know Him. And we can't really know Him until we come to believe in Him. When the time was ripe in human history, even if just barely, Jesus came to fully reveal God, His true nature and will, to give us the real stuff to believe in.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Nowhwere does the Bible use the expression, "finished work of Jesus on the cross."

Our faith should be in Jesus Himself, not a theory about He saves us.

Believe it or not, there IS a difference.

I agree. I was just asking that because I've heard that teaching before. That you have to trust in the finished work of Jesus to be saved. I.E. that all of your sins are paid for that no amount of good works can save you ...etc. Like I said I don't believe it. While Jesus did cover all of my sins past present and future I don't believe that believing that is required for salvation. Paul and Peter said that all who call upon Jesus will be saved.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved!

If the process of salvation is conditional, then I do not believe anyone can be saved. Because if conditions are attached, then, that means some level of sin is taken into account. Hence, if some sin is taken into account, then logically all sin must be considered. If all sin is the condition, then we are back at square one, we once again need a savior.

So just asking Jesus for salvation is enough to get it? God does the rest?

 

[Neostarwcc]

Our faith cannot save us without His grace. If you will look closely you will see that we have a really good deal going for us here.
He gives us a free unmerited gift for "Trusting" in him and nothing more.
Jesus last words on the cross were not "It's almost finished" No, They were it is finished! and it is completely finished as far as making atonments and/or doing anything to earn salvation.

We could never earn anything because we are all rotten to the core and full of pride. We are judgmental and our tongues spin like trolling motors spewing hateful and degrading things.
Our very BEST works are as filthy rags to God.
So by trusting in the "only righteous One" ever to walk the earth, We are then saved, because we are trusting in His righteousness that never sinned nor failed in any way.
So adhere yourself to Jesus Christ and trust in Him and you will be clothed in His righteousness and that my friend is what saves us.

So salvation to you is the trust of Jesus's finished work on the cross? Interesting.

 

[Southernscotty]

So salvation to you is the trust of Jesus's finished work on the cross? Interesting.

Yes it is. The blood is what saves us, His shed blood for us at Calvary.
Believe means much more than we use it in today's context, It actually means to trust fully in, adherence, too, pitch your tent beside, Have faith in...
Grace by faith. :]

 

[Neostarwcc]

Anybody that believes that Christ is the Son of God, Messiah and that He died for their sins and that He is the only source of salvation and accepts the gift of salvation... is saved..

So, yes, Catholics and SDA's who believe on Christ's work, are saved.

All the other stuff is fluff and human confusion and muddying the waters.

Look at it this way:

You have a bunch of architects...They all know that a building needs to be founded on solid ground, have a roof that holds back rain and snow and walls to keep out the elements.

Now, from this group of architects... some believe that the building must have two stories, some three. Some think that windows should be able to be opened others sealed. Some believe that there should be no below grade living quarters.. others want basement living quarters... Some want bathrooms on each floor, others want bathrooms for each sex, male and female, separate.

All are architects... all have other legalistic ideals that have no bearing on the fact that they are all architects... BUT all will argue that the others don't deserve to be called architects due to their flawed views of architecture.

I agree. I mean I don't really like Christians who go out there and accuse other groups who worship God in a different way than we do say that other groups are not saved. But you see it all over YouTube. Christians condemning other Christians just because they believe different things. Like for example my mom is brainwashed as a Catholic into believing that only Catholics will be saved and that Catholicism is the "true" church. So she raised my sister and I Catholic but neither of us shared her faith. My sister doesn't really believe in Jesus and I didn't become a Christian until I was 27. When I got saved all I did was just ask Jesus for salvation and he gave it to me. That's why I like Peter and Paul's statements of "Everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved"

 

[Neostarwcc]

Yes it is. The blood is what saves us, His shed blood for us at Calvary.
Believe means much more than we use it in today's context, It actually means to trust fully in, adherence, too, pitch your tent beside, Have faith in...
Grace by faith. :]

Yes I've heard that the word pisteuo which is the Greek word translated as believe in English translations means to place confidence in and to trust.

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

 

[JacksBratt]

I agree. I mean I don't really like Christians who go out there and accuse other groups who worship God in a different way than we do say that other groups are not saved. But you see it all over YouTube. Christians condemning other Christians just because they believe different things. Like for example my mom is brainwashed as a Catholic into believing that only Catholics will be saved and that Catholicism is the "true" church. So she raised my sister and I Catholic but neither of us shared her faith. My sister doesn't really believe in Jesus and I didn't become a Christian until I was 27. When I got saved all I did was just ask Jesus for salvation and he gave it to me. That's why I like Peter and Paul's statements of "Everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved"

This is very true. Christians condemning other Christians due to different theology.

I think that it is good to have calm and respectable arguments about theological issues as Iron Sharpens Iron...

However, Catholics saying that Protestants are not saved and Protestants saying Catholics are going to hell, based on different understandings beyond the Gospel message... is not helping anyone.

In fact, a good friend of the family will not attend any church because a Priest came to his mothers house, when he was an infant and told the mother that her children would go to hell if she did not have them baptized.

It is when non believers are held to these legalistic ideologies of all the different denominations and divisions of Christian religion, that they turn and high tail it as far away from religion as they can go.

John 3:16 says it all. Christ's two commandants tie it all together...Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind... Love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[Neostarwcc]

This is very true. Christians condemning other Christians due to different theology.

I think that it is good to have calm and respectable arguments about theological issues as Iron Sharpens Iron...

However, Catholics saying that Protestants are not saved and Protestants saying Catholics are going to hell, based on different understandings beyond the Gospel message... is not helping anyone.

In fact, a good friend of the family will not attend any church because a Priest came to his mothers house, when he was an infant and told the mother that her children would go to hell if she did not have them baptized.

It is when non believers are held to these legalistic ideologies of all the different denominations and divisions of Christian religion, that they turn and high tail it as far away from religion as they can go.

John 3:16 says it all. Christ's two commandants tie it all together...Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind... Love your neighbor as yourself.

Oh yeah. My wife and I were baptized as infants because of that. I half wish that I didnt get baptized as an infant because I kinda want to get baptized again. I want to make a public declaration of Christ and my wife just doesnt want to gert baptized again. But those who believe Baptism is a requirement for salvation will put pressure on those who were baptized as infants getting rebaptized.

Yes John 3:16 does say it all. I don't believe in baptism salvation or baptismal regeneration at all.

In a perfect world Christians wouldn't be so divided but every Christian is condemning the other and its just like... What the hell. It prevents people from converting to Christianity and it doesn't make understanding salvation any easier. We should be united.