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What really are Stars?

Lulav

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From some thoughts from this thread - I made all things New I got to thinking about the stars.

Let's look at what they are from a Biblical perspective. And if we say we believe in G-d Whom we cannot see and we believe in Yeshua whom we also have never seen but believe the Words in the Bible then we must believe they are true.

Put aside, if you can, what you have been taught outside of any Bible lessons and even some of them are tainted and let's just focus on the words in the Bible only.

The first mention of Stars of course is in the beginning, in Genesis. Let's just quote the facts from there.

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness


Notice that the greater light (we call the sun) and the lesser light (we call the moon) was set in the firmament along with the stars.

Now I'm just going to quote passages that my hope is others will see what I'm seeing.

  1. “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.”
  2. “Look, I have dreamed another dream. And this time, the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars bowed down to me.”
  3. “I see Him, but not now; I behold Him, but not near; A Star shall come out of Jacob; A Scepter shall rise out of Israel, And batter the brow of Moab, And destroy all the sons of tumult.
  4. The Lord your God has multiplied you, and here you are today, as the stars of heaven in multitude.
  5. Your fathers went down to Egypt with seventy persons, and now the Lord your God has made you as the stars of heaven in multitude.
  6. They fought from the heavens; The stars from their courses fought against Sisera.
  7. He commands the sun, and it does not rise; He seals off the stars...
  8. When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, The moon and the stars, which You have ordained
  9. When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
  10. “Is not God in the height of heaven? And see the highest stars, how lofty they are!
  11. He counts the number of the stars; He calls them all by name.
  12. Praise Him, sun and moon; Praise Him, all you stars of light!
  13. For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;
  14. And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them.
  15. The earth quakes before them, The heavens tremble; The sun and moon grow dark, And the stars diminish their brightness.
  16. “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”
  17. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.
  18. raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
  19. The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.
  20. Then the fourth angel sounded: And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened. A third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night.
  21. Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit.
  22. Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.
  23. “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.
I've numbered them so you can use a number for a reference you want to discuss.
 

d taylor

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My beliefs about stars 1. the sun is not a star, it is as the Bible states a great created light. 2. Stars are created lights that along with the moon (another created light) give light upon the earth at night. That stars are, as the sun and moon are, placed in the raqia (dome) above the earth. That somehow from their course in the heavens/sky/raqia, they helped in a battle fought against Sisera.

That it was a star, just like stated in The Bible that guided the wise men to The Messiah and that stood over where the child was.
That the stars will one day fall to earth like figs dropping from a fig tree.

I believe that what science calls planets, are actually stars.

 
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Lulav

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dtaylor said: My beliefs about stars

1. the sun is not a star, it is as the Bible states a great created light.:oldthumbsup:
2. Stars are created lights that along with the moon (another created light) give light upon the earth at night.
1/2 :oldthumbsup:

That stars are, as the sun and moon are, placed in the raqia (dome) above the earth. :oldthumbsup:

That somehow from their course in the heavens/sky/raqia, they helped in a battle fought against Sisera.

How do you think that happened?

That it was a star, just like stated in The Bible that guided the wise men to The Messiah and that stood over where the child was.

I tend to think it might have been a conjunction that would move as they followed. But star(s) as in the planets

That the stars will one day fall to earth like figs dropping from a fig tree.
A third of the stars-----

I believe that what science calls planets, are actually stars.
Yes, they have courses while others are fixed.

Thanks for your response!
 
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Brad D.

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Your post was very comforting to me in a lot of ways. Peaceful and Serene. I don't have any comments on the specific references, but thought I would share these impressions I had after reading it.

It has been God's way for some time to teach me how often our eyes have to be opened to see Him in the everyday things around us. He is often in the midst of so many things we would bypass if we are not careful to stop and see. He doesn't often come in the flash and bangs. He is more thorough than that. He is a slow burning fire. Coming in a thousand seemingly mundane things, but yet there He is revealing Himself day by day. Daily we are dying, daily we are seeing. We are being renewed and conformed to the image of Christ day by day. He is thorough, He is good. He is there in the midst of everything that tries to hide Him.

So in reminding me of that, He comforted me in your post. It makes me believe that there is so much more we bypass every day, that we see every day, that has so much more potential, meaning than we ever take the time to see. There is more to this thing. There is something bigger here at work. Things we may take for granted, one day we will know in full what today we only know in part. We may be shocked in how much there was all around us, how much there was working through us, how big this thing really was, hidden by the everyday, looked at only through the dullness of our natural eyes, perceived by the dullness of our finite minds.

Which took me to Dothan in 2 Kings 6:15-17 when the servant of the man of God arose early and went out there was an army surrounding the city with horses and chariots And his servant said to him, "Alas my master! what shall we do? And Elisha answered "Do not fear for those who are with us are more than those who are with them." And Elisha prayed and said, "Lord I pray open his eyes that he may see." Then the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire.

Perhaps it's like that. Perhaps there are many things like that. We just have to press in, get out of the way, let the Spirit come in and see.

Thank you for your post Lulav. Really appreciated it.
 
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d taylor

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That somehow from their course in the heavens/sky/raqia, they helped in a battle fought against Sisera.

How do you think that happened?

That it was a star, just like stated in The Bible that guided the wise men to The Messiah and that stood over where the child was.

I tend to think it might have been a conjunction that would move as they followed. But star(s) as in the planets

That the stars will one day fall to earth like figs dropping from a fig tree.
A third of the stars-----

I believe that what science calls planets, are actually stars.
Yes, they have courses while others are fixed.

Thanks for your response!

Well people used the stars more for signs and navigation, etc.. back then. So some how the stars could have given a confusing message to Sisera. Which could have caused him to make a miscalculated military move. But really do not know ???????

I see no problem God using a star for the purpose of guiding the wise men. God could have easily just directed this star to come down from its place in the raqia and like The Bible states guide the wise men.

But you have to remember, when i speak of stars they are small created lights in the raqia, as stated in The Bible. And not the fabricated stars of science that are millions to billions of light years away and that are these crazy large sizes.
 
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Lulav

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Well people used the stars more for signs and navigation, etc.. back then. So some how the stars could have given a confusing message to Sisera. Which could have caused him to make a miscalculated military move. But really do not know ???????

I see no problem God using a star for the purpose of guiding the wise men. God could have easily just directed this star to come down from its place in the raqia and like The Bible states guide the wise men.

But you have to remember, when i speak of stars they are small created lights in the raqia, as stated in The Bible. And not the fabricated stars of science that are millions to billions of light years away and that are these crazy large sizes.
I agree about the distance. But have you wondered about the firmament they are set in and the scientific outlook that the stars are burning balls and our sun is just one of them, how would that work?

Also in the passages I quoted have you noticed anything that shows they are not just balls of gas, meaning they are alive somehow?
 
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Lulav

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Your post was very comforting to me in a lot of ways. Peaceful and Serene. I don't have any comments on the specific references, but thought I would share these impressions I had after reading it.

It has been God's way for some time to teach me how often our eyes have to be opened to see Him in the everyday things around us. He is often in the midst of so many things we would bypass if we are not careful to stop and see. He doesn't often come in the flash and bangs. He is more thorough than that. He is a slow burning fire. Coming in a thousand seemingly mundane things, but yet there He is revealing Himself day by day. Daily we are dying, daily we are seeing. We are being renewed and conformed to the image of Christ day by day. He is thorough, He is good. He is there in the midst of everything that tries to hide Him.

So in reminding me of that, He comforted me in your post. It makes me believe that there is so much more we bypass every day, that we see every day, that has so much more potential, meaning than we ever take the time to see. There is more to this thing. There is something bigger here at work. Things we may take for granted, one day we will know in full what today we only know in part. We may be shocked in how much there was all around us, how much there was working through us, how big this thing really was, hidden by the everyday, looked at only through the dullness of our natural eyes, perceived by the dullness of our finite minds.

Which took me to Dothan in 2 Kings 6:15-17 when the servant of the man of God arose early and went out there was an army surrounding the city with horses and chariots And his servant said to him, "Alas my master! what shall we do? And Elisha answered "Do not fear for those who are with us are more than those who are with them." And Elisha prayed and said, "Lord I pray open his eyes that he may see." Then the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire.

Perhaps it's like that. Perhaps there are many things like that. We just have to press in, get out of the way, let the Spirit come in and see.

Thank you for your post Lulav. Really appreciated it.
I'm glad that brought you to that place of wonderment. I too wonder about having 'eyes to see' beyond the 'natural' and what all we're missing. Then I think that if we did see things it would stress us out too much.

Do you have a pet, one that stays close to you when you are resting? I have had at least three dogs who I have observed, mainly while lying in bed reading before sleeping that I find looking up on the wall above me or to the side of me. When it first happened I thought they might be spotting a bug on the wall, spider, moth, etc. But after observing and finding nothing I watched them. They clearly are seeing something I can't but are concentrating on it. None of them seemed phased by it, like they didn't bother getting up nor sniffing the air but I could tell there was 'something' there and have concluded that it must be my 'guardian' angel.
I've surmised that they catch the attention of the dog by 'shimmering' don't know how to explain it and I also think sometimes they talk to them and let them know things are ok, to just rest. Many times after one of these spottings by the dog of the being they will lay down and close their eyes, very calm like.

I got to thinking about this and do believe I am correct in my assertation of it being a spiritual being, a guarding angel as I remember the story of Balaam and his donkey. That of course was not a guardian angel but the Angel of the LORD and surely frightening, but the point is the animal who couldn't talk could see them.
:)
 
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d taylor

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I agree about the distance. But have you wondered about the firmament they are set in and the scientific outlook that the stars are burning balls and our sun is just one of them, how would that work?

Also in the passages I quoted have you noticed anything that shows they are not just balls of gas, meaning they are alive somehow?

My thought on the raqia is that it is like The Bible states. An area above our heads that is where God placed the sun, moon and stars. I believe it is clear and that the sun, moon and stars move in it and that it is holding back a large mass of water above it.

That the raqia is clear, i do not believe we can distinguish it from the air we breath and is part of the sky above our head which is called heaven in Genesis 1.

As for science i believe nothing they say about God's creation, so i do not believe stars are fire balls. I believe they are light and not light from something burning but just light. Do they have a solid base where the light shines from, that i do not know.

I know i have heard/read people who believe stars may be angles. I do not believe that, i believe stars are stars and angles are not stars. But i do entertain the thought that, shooting stars may be angles moving across the sky.
 
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Paul4JC

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Now I'm just going to quote passages that my hope is others will see what I'm seeing.

  1. “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.”
  2. “Look, I have dreamed another dream. And this time, the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars bowed down to me.”
  3. “I see Him, but not now; I behold Him, but not near; A Star shall come out of Jacob; A Scepter shall rise out of Israel, And batter the brow of Moab, And destroy all the sons of tumult.
  4. The Lord your God has multiplied you, and here you are today, as the stars of heaven in multitude.
  5. Your fathers went down to Egypt with seventy persons, and now the Lord your God has made you as the stars of heaven in multitude.
  6. They fought from the heavens; The stars from their courses fought against Sisera.
  7. He commands the sun, and it does not rise; He seals off the stars...
  8. When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, The moon and the stars, which You have ordained
  9. When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
  10. “Is not God in the height of heaven? And see the highest stars, how lofty they are!
  11. He counts the number of the stars; He calls them all by name.
  12. Praise Him, sun and moon; Praise Him, all you stars of light!
  13. For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;
  14. And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them.
  15. The earth quakes before them, The heavens tremble; The sun and moon grow dark, And the stars diminish their brightness.
  16. “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”
  17. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.
  18. raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
  19. The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.
  20. Then the fourth angel sounded: And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened. A third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night.
  21. Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit.
  22. Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.
  23. “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.
It's obvious that they are light's, but then they seem to be more than just light's. Here's a bit from a paper I wrote.

We find many attributes of stars in the Bible that are very personal.

They sing. They praise God.
[Job 38:7 NASB20] When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

[Psa 148:3] Praise him, sun and moon; praise him, all you shining stars.

They fight!
[Jdg 5:20] From the heavens the stars fought, from their courses they fought against Sisera.

They have splendor
[1Co 15:41] The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

They all have names.
[Psa 147:4] He determines the number of the stars and calls them each by name.

They fall from the sky, even to the earth.
[Mar 13:25] the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

[Rev 6:13 ] and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.

They are referred to as being angels.
[Rev 1:20] The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

[Rev 12:4a, 9] Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. 9 The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.


#23 just grabbed me that our Lord Jesus is actually being referred to as a star! Mind blown!

I'll have more comments later.
 
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Paul4JC

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Also in the passages I quoted have you noticed anything that shows they are not just balls of gas, meaning they are alive somehow?
Exactly! They are entities with names. (17, 11)
 
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Brad D.

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I'm glad that brought you to that place of wonderment. I too wonder about having 'eyes to see' beyond the 'natural' and what all we're missing. Then I think that if we did see things it would stress us out too much.

Do you have a pet, one that stays close to you when you are resting? I have had at least three dogs who I have observed, mainly while lying in bed reading before sleeping that I find looking up on the wall above me or to the side of me. When it first happened I thought they might be spotting a bug on the wall, spider, moth, etc. But after observing and finding nothing I watched them. They clearly are seeing something I can't but are concentrating on it. None of them seemed phased by it, like they didn't bother getting up nor sniffing the air but I could tell there was 'something' there and have concluded that it must be my 'guardian' angel.
I've surmised that they catch the attention of the dog by 'shimmering' don't know how to explain it and I also think sometimes they talk to them and let them know things are ok, to just rest. Many times after one of these spottings by the dog of the being they will lay down and close their eyes, very calm like.

I got to thinking about this and do believe I am correct in my assertation of it being a spiritual being, a guarding angel as I remember the story of Balaam and his donkey. That of course was not a guardian angel but the Angel of the LORD and surely frightening, but the point is the animal who couldn't talk could see them.
:)

I have had 3 pets in my adult life 2 dogs and 1 cat, all having passed away now. And though I have never had or at least was not in tune enough to observe experiences like you had each one has had or played a spiritually significant part in my life.

Both of my dogs were broken, a bit fragile characters like myself. My first dog ran out in front of and was hit by a car at a young age, and shortly after that was viciously attacked, unprovoked by another dog. He was changed after that. I think there was a bit of a PTSD effect. He never quite viewed the world in the same happy go lucky way. But He stuck by me like glue in the darkest period of my life. I was in my 20's and had not come to the Lord yet, and was living through a dangerously destructive time which shut me down as person, provoking me to contemplate suicide daily. But there he was each day, just as you described, following me wherever I went, putting his head on my leg, almost knowing when things were at there worse. I really believe the Lord used that dog to keep me going. Often it came down to not so worried about me, but what would happen to him if I wasn't around. I came to Christ before He died. I would sometimes look upon him and think about him and tear up. I still do sometimes thinking back upon him. After being saved, I was sure God put Him in my life at that time to help me through, to give me a reason to live one more day. It was painful when he died. I tried to tell him how thankful I was for all he had done.

My second dog died the same age as my first when he was 13 years old. We got him when he was 3. He was owned by a someone who just didn't have the time to take care of him and needed to find him a home. We were ready again for another dog so we took him in. We immediately noticed he too had a past. Some things he was working out that caused him to walk a bit out of step from the rest of dog world. His most peculiar thing was he would not eat out of a bowl, and was petrified of his water bowl. It was almost as if he knew we could do something about his food, but when it came to his water we were out of options. So no matter what we did ( We tried everything!) He would not eat out of a bowl, everything had to be placed on a mat on the ground. Knowing we couldn't do anything about his water he would drink from his bowl as if any moment it would explode. His back legs would be back as far as they could go and he would lean in at the most precarious distance, on the ready at any moment to evacuate if the situation called, which he was most sure it would every time he drank. We finally just accepted him the way he was and this was the way he ate and drank until the day he died.

One of the funniest things that ever happened with him was the time we took him with us to Yellowstone, NP. Yellowstone is not a far drive from where I live in the Northern Rockies, so I have been there several times. Well we took him to Old Faithful, and were waiting like everyone else for the old Jem to erupt right on time from it's hole. And so it did, and when it did, everything was confirmed and sealed for the old fellow. He jumped back like a cannon and barked his fool head off for a minute. And from that day looked at us with contempt, like he had forever won the battle as if, "I've been telling you water bowls are dangerous!" Like a prosecutor in a court of law who makes his definitive closing comments and walks back to his seat triumphantly to a deadly quiet courtroom.

But for all his eccentricities he was one of the kindest, gentlest souls one could be around. Everything loved him. We lived out on a ranch for a time, and when the cows in the pasture would see him they would all come to the fence to be near him. They would fight with each other to be the one who got to rub noses with him or lick him. And he would patiently endure it, as if he was a therapy dog. And the 3 tough as nails barn cats, would flock to him when he was out, they would literally all 3 snuggle right up next to him when he was sleeping sometimes even laying on top of him, and again he was always so patient with them. But one of the most touching endearing things I ever saw was one early morning he was out in the yard and I happened to look out the window and he was rubbing noses in the most gentle way with a red fox. They had no animosity towards one another whatsoever. But the thing that was most endearing of all was his friendship with my son. There were some tough years, and he gave my son a loyal friend who went with him tromping the wild hills everywhere he went. The Lord used that dog tremendously in those years.

And finally a short story of our cat that lived with us for 14 years. He had been sick for several weeks. There was nothing we could do but comfort him. We got him all situated with everything he needed and watched over him in his dying days. He had been to weak to move from this spot for several days. One early morning we heard him crying coming down the steps. He startled us from our sleep. We couldn't believe he was up and coming down the steps. That cat was wailing about the time he got into our bedroom. we got out of bed and tried to comfort and console him. And as soon as we go to him and began petting him, he literally collapsed and died right there in our room. It was as if he knew he was about to die, and expended everything he had to come say good by and be with us one last time before he passed. Truly something that we have never forgotten, and makes you pause an think of what they do know and do perceive as you say.

I pray I haven't derailed your thread. Forgive me, but your question made me think about all of these things. And it felt safe here to I guess to reflect and relive many years past now. Thanks for giving me a place to do so.
 
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d taylor

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One reason i would not say with 100% certainty angles are actually stars. Is angles, when seen are men. and even Daniel called Gabriel a man.

If i could record a star and see a man shaped figure giving off light. Then yes i would say stars are angles
 
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Lulav

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I have had 3 pets in my adult life 2 dogs and 1 cat, all having passed away now. And though I have never had or at least was not in tune enough to observe experiences like you had each one has had or played a spiritually significant part in my life.

Both of my dogs were broken, a bit fragile characters like myself. My first dog ran out in front of and was hit by a car at a young age, and shortly after that was viciously attacked, unprovoked by another dog. He was changed after that. I think there was a bit of a PTSD effect. He never quite viewed the world in the same happy go lucky way. But He stuck by me like glue in the darkest period of my life. I was in my 20's and had not come to the Lord yet, and was living through a dangerously destructive time which shut me down as person, provoking me to contemplate suicide daily. But there he was each day, just as you described, following me wherever I went, putting his head on my leg, almost knowing when things were at there worse. I really believe the Lord used that dog to keep me going. Often it came down to not so worried about me, but what would happen to him if I wasn't around. I came to Christ before He died. I would sometimes look upon him and think about him and tear up. I still do sometimes thinking back upon him. After being saved, I was sure God put Him in my life at that time to help me through, to give me a reason to live one more day. It was painful when he died. I tried to tell him how thankful I was for all he had done.

My second dog died the same age as my first when he was 13 years old. We got him when he was 3. He was owned by a someone who just didn't have the time to take care of him and needed to find him a home. We were ready again for another dog so we took him in. We immediately noticed he too had a past. Some things he was working out that caused him to walk a bit out of step from the rest of dog world. His most peculiar thing was he would not eat out of a bowl, and was petrified of his water bowl. It was almost as if he knew we could do something about his food, but when it came to his water we were out of options. So no matter what we did ( We tried everything!) He would not eat out of a bowl, everything had to be placed on a mat on the ground. Knowing we couldn't do anything about his water he would drink from his bowl as if any moment it would explode. His back legs would be back as far as they could go and he would lean in at the most precarious distance, on the ready at any moment to evacuate if the situation called, which he was most sure it would every time he drank. We finally just accepted him the way he was and this was the way he ate and drank until the day he died.

One of the funniest things that ever happened with him was the time we took him with us to Yellowstone, NP. Yellowstone is not a far drive from where I live in the Northern Rockies, so I have been there several times. Well we took him to Old Faithful, and were waiting like everyone else for the old Jem to erupt right on time from it's hole. And so it did, and when it did, everything was confirmed and sealed for the old fellow. He jumped back like a cannon and barked his fool head off for a minute. And from that day looked at us with contempt, like he had forever won the battle as if, "I've been telling you water bowls are dangerous!" Like a prosecutor in a court of law who makes his definitive closing comments and walks back to his seat triumphantly to a deadly quiet courtroom.

But for all his eccentricities he was one of the kindest, gentlest souls one could be around. Everything loved him. We lived out on a ranch for a time, and when the cows in the pasture would see him they would all come to the fence to be near him. They would fight with each other to be the one who got to rub noses with him or lick him. And he would patiently endure it, as if he was a therapy dog. And the 3 tough as nails barn cats, would flock to him when he was out, they would literally all 3 snuggle right up next to him when he was sleeping sometimes even laying on top of him, and again he was always so patient with them. But one of the most touching endearing things I ever saw was one early morning he was out in the yard and I happened to look out the window and he was rubbing noses in the most gentle way with a red fox. They had no animosity towards one another whatsoever. But the thing that was most endearing of all was his friendship with my son. There were some tough years, and he gave my son a loyal friend who went with him tromping the wild hills everywhere he went. The Lord used that dog tremendously in those years.

And finally a short story of our cat that lived with us for 14 years. He had been sick for several weeks. There was nothing we could do but comfort him. We got him all situated with everything he needed and watched over him in his dying days. He had been to weak to move from this spot for several days. One early morning we heard him crying coming down the steps. He startled us from our sleep. We couldn't believe he was up and coming down the steps. That cat was wailing about the time he got into our bedroom. we got out of bed and tried to comfort and console him. And as soon as we go to him and began petting him, he literally collapsed and died right there in our room. It was as if he knew he was about to die, and expended everything he had to come say good by and be with us one last time before he passed. Truly something that we have never forgotten, and makes you pause an think of what they do know and do perceive as you say.

I pray I haven't derailed your thread. Forgive me, but your question made me think about all of these things. And it felt safe here to I guess to reflect and relive many years past now. Thanks for giving me a place to do so.

Thank you so much for sharing that here. I do believe that the LORD speaks to his creation, not just us. I think he guides them to be helpers in our lives.
Your story about your cat, brought back memories I have of a baby squirrel I rescued. I had him about a year and decided that he should be let go to the wild to get himself a family. We had been leaving his door on the cat playcage I had for him open and he would go out for the day and then come back before evening and crawl up in the sleeve of my husbands old shirt I had hanging in there.
Then one day he didn't come back and I was glad that he had found a new home, probably padded with leaves and was ready to set out on his own.
That night we had a bad t'storm and I worried about him out there, alone. We lived by a river and had frequent lightening strikes there.
The next day we went about our day and when we went out onto the porch, there he sat. His face was blackened and there was a drop of blood on his ear.

Apparently he was in a tree that had gotten struck. I brought him in the house and put him in an old hamster aquarium with shavings. We had unexpected visitors and I wasn't prepared so we took them out to dinner. I didn't want to leave and gave him some extra love before I left.
He was gone when I returned and it broke my heart. He had made sure he made it back home. To him I was his mother. I had even taken him to work with me so I could feed him every couple of hours. When I got him (he had apparently fell or was pushed out of the nest) he didn't even have any hair on his tail. We called him Quinn baby as he was found on the equinox.
Now I'm derailing my own thread but it ties in I think that the LORD is gracious and cares about us and shows us in all kinds of ways.
 
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Lulav

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One reason i would not say with 100% certainty angles are actually stars. Is angles, when seen are men. and even Daniel called Gabriel a man.

If i could record a star and see a man shaped figure giving off light. Then yes i would say stars are angles

All other 'beings' that we are not aware of are different. There is not just one kind of being.

The word angel means messenger, and I think it would fit that the 'stars' are messengers of a sort.

When the LORD wants us to see them he somehow allows them to take on human flesh, but there are those like with Balaam that are unseen, by man, but not by beast.
 
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Lulav

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@Brad D One other thing I wanted to share with you was that the word in Hebrew for dog is Kelev. It means 'like a heart'. Perhaps it is the heart of GOD in some way that can see our innermost feelings, know our innermost hurts and is there just to be with us so it's something we can see and know we aren't alone?

I am glad for the one the LORD sent to you and the comfort he gave in your dark times.

I had a rescued dog that actually rescued me. i worked with her in training and she and I became a therapy team to bring others comfort, a laugh, a smile. When we had to let her go because of cancer before the Dr. gave her the shot I told her how much she'd meant to me and thanked GOD for bringing her to me.
 
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Paul4JC

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One reason i would not say with 100% certainty angles are actually stars. Is angles, when seen are men. and even Daniel called Gabriel a man.

The word angel means messenger, and I think it would fit that the 'stars' are messengers of a sort.

As far as being light's (Gen 1:16), so is God, yet we know he is much, much more. [1Jo 1:5 NIV] This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

[1Ti 6:16 NIV] who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

In Book of Jubilees: The Book of Jubilees: The Angel dictates to Moses the Primæval History: the Creation of the World and Institution of the Sabbath (ii. 1-33) angels are created on day 1 and the stars on day 4.

Combined with what the Bible says, I'm now leaning toward stars being an abode for angels, or their home. Even the Lord Jesus (23) is referred to as a star, he must have a special one he abides in at times. Like our homes, we are not always there, but still that is our "home base."

There seems to be some oneness to these abodes, where the occupants are one and the same.

For example the evil wandering(planet) stars of Jude, (18) the only place in the NT where the word Planet is used ( G4107 - planētēs - Strong's Greek Lexicon (niv)). 1 Enoch* clearly shows them as being the angels that left their appointed places and transgressed, and are held in Tartarus. Yet we can see them. IMO, I think they are in "outer darkness" awaiting judgment. Is this Tartarus or part of it? Yet they still have held power to reign (via their demon horde offspring that can travel to parts of Sheol/Hades aka the underworld. They have been worshiped by people throughout history, as they are in every mythology, whose names and traditions differ (because of Babel) yet the attributes are always the same. I shared a spreadsheet on this in another thread. We name most days of the week after the same. The stars are abodes.

..........................
*
1 Enoch 18:12 Beyond this chasm I saw a place where there was neither firmament of heaven above, nor firmly founded earth beneath it. Neither was there water on it, nor bird; but the place was desolate and fearful. 13/ There I saw seven stars like great burning mountains. 14/ To me, when I inquired about them, the angel said, “This place is the end of heaven and earth; this has become a prison for the stars and the hosts of heaven. 15/ The stars that are rolling over in the fire, these are they that transgressed the command of the Lord in the beginning of their rising, for they did not come out in their appointed times.

compare with

[2Pe 2:4 NIV] For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to (Tartarus), putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;
 
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Lulav

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angels are created on day 1 and the stars on day 4.

Speaking to Job the LORD says:

“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. 5 Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? 6 On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone 7 when the morning stars sang together and all the heavenly beings shouted for joy?

This seems to contradict that assertion. Seems the angels were already present when the foundations of the earth were created.
 
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d taylor

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Speaking to Job the LORD says:

“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. 5 Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? 6 On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone 7 when the morning stars sang together and all the heavenly beings shouted for joy?

This seems to contradict that assertion. Seems the angels were already present when the foundations of the earth were created.

I was thinking of this verse earlier.

But i am one who believes that the original creation is in Genesis 1:1 which was the home of God and the host of un-fallen angels. So i see the host of angels preceding Genesis 1:2
 
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Paul4JC

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This seems to contradict that assertion. Seems the angels were already present when the foundations of the earth were created.
Who exactly were the morning stars? (I see that stars as angels, but there's more to it.) I don't see Jubilees 2 as a contradiction. The morning stars could have been created on day one, and more stars created on day four. They seem to be their abode. Stars don't move from their position in the celestial ball, angels do. I don't think they continually remain in the starlight but also have other forms, even as they appear to people throughout the bible, not just as lights. So again I go with my abode theory.

But i am one who believes that the original creation is in Genesis 1:1 which was the home of God and the host of un-fallen angels. So I see the host of angels preceding Genesis 1:2
I agree that the morning stars are arch angels. Are you referring to creation before creation or gap theory? I understand that view but don't adhere. Everything including arch angels was created within six days. There was no creation before the six days.

[Exo 20:11 NIV] For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
 
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d taylor

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I agree that the morning stars are arch angels. Are you referring to creation before creation or gap theory? I understand that view but don't adhere. Everything including arch angels was created within six days. There was no creation before the six days.

[Exo 20:11 NIV] For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

That verse uses the word made (asah) instead of create (bara').
And i believe i have read that these two words actually have a different meaning. the asah may mean to create from preexisting material, where as bara' means to create for no previous material.
 
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