Discussion What prophets today has a perfect record of not giving any failed prophecies that are clear? And, h

Status
Not open for further replies.

lismore

Maranatha
Oct 28, 2004
20,671
4,354
Scotland
✟242,456.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Am I misreading "in earlier years" to mean they made mistakes in their later years?

Hello Daniel. By 'earlier years' I meant that they lived in previous centuries. (Sorry I didn't make that point clear). But as far as I know all of their prophecies/ predictions came to pass. There are examples of prophets in church history who have made true predictions. God Bless :)
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: Daniel Marsh
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
"Though I speak in the tongues of men and of angels..." 1 Corinthians 13:1

One theory is angels speak in the language of human nations that they work with. Another theory is angels spoke Hebrew.

" The condition (εαν — ean and present subjunctive, λαλω και μη εχω — lalō kai mē echō though the form is identical with present indicative) is of the third class, a supposable case."
1 Corinthians 13 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

THE HYMN OF LOVE (1 Corinthians 13:1-13 )

13 I may speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but if I have not love, I am become no better than echoing brass or a clanging cymbal. I may have the gift of prophecy, I may understand all sacred secrets and all knowledge, I may have faith enough to remove mountains, but if I have not love I am nothing. I may dole out all that I have, I may surrender my body that I may be burned, but if I have not love it is no good to me.

Nero did not have Christians as party torches until ten or more years later. Thus Paul was telling us a little about the future thus

The opening of that chapter is hypothetical, speculative, theoretical and exageration in his discussion of good works without having agape love.

.

Expositor's Greek Testament
1 Corinthians 13:1. This way will be described in 1 Corinthians 13:4-7, but first its necessity must be proved: this is shown by the five parl[1961] hypotheses of 1 Corinthians 13:1 ff.,—respecting tongues, prophecy, knowledge, and devotion of goods or of person. The first supposition takes up the charism last mentioned (1 Corinthians 12:30) and most valued at Cor[1962]: ἐὰν τ. γλώσσαις … λαλῶ, ἀγάπην δὲ μὴ ἔχω (form of probable hypothesis—too prob. at Cor[1963]), “If with the tongues of men I be speaking, and of angels, but am without love,”—in that case, “I have become a sounding brass or a clanging cymbal”—I have gained by this admired endowment the power of making so much senseless noise (cf. 1 Corinthians 14:6-11; 1 Corinthians 14:23; 1 Corinthians 14:27 f.).

Pulpit Commentary
Verses 1-13. - The supremely excellent way of Christian love. This chapter has been in all ages the object of the special admiration of the Church. Would that it had received in all ages the loftier and more valuable admiration which would have been expressed by an acceptance of its lessons! Tertullian says that it is uttered "with all the force of the Spirit" (totis Spiritus viribus). It is a glorious hymn or paean in honour of Christian love, in which St. Paul rises on the wings of inspiration to the most sunlit heights of Christian eloquence.

1 Corinthians 13 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
1 Corinthians 13:1 Commentaries: If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

Exegetically, the context is "If I can do X and Y --- no love, useless.
If I can do Z --- no love, useless. I give my body to be burned and no love, useless. Simple outlining of the text, sentences shows what I am saying.

It does not mean we can speak in the language of angels.

Paul was in heaven, and heard language of angels --- he was not permitted to speak in language of angels on earth. If angels speak Hebrew, then Paul could not share the content of what he heard.

2 Corinthians 12:4
New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition

4 was caught up into Paradise and heard things that are not to be told, that no mortal is permitted to repeat.
 
Upvote 0

ARBITER01

Legend
Aug 12, 2007
13,348
1,695
✟161,131.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
We know that research by linguists have concluded that no constructs of language are in tongue speaking services. I have already posted on that before. do a search on tongues lindquist here.

That would be true. We shouldn't expect our spirit speaking to be in any known language,...

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
 
Upvote 0

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
That would be true. We shouldn't expect our spirit speaking to be in any known language,...


With that being the case, as it is true, I have witnessed myself.

I have lived in and attended Churches in every City mentioned.
Miami Fla.
St Louis Mo.
Seattle Wa.
Portland Or.
Los Angeles, Cal.

I have heard the same types of Tongues in each place with very little variation, which says to me, One God, One Spirit, One Tongue between God and man.

What we speak in Tongues is a Spiritual Language not a Earthly one, therefore Linguistic rules do not apply.

Also, as a side note, whenever I speak in English even if at some length, I do not feel the same as when I speak in an Unknown Tongue in Prayer, even though I have no idea as to what is being spoken by me.

I guess what I am feeling is the Edification of myself by the Holy Spirit of God.
 
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
That would be true. We shouldn't expect our spirit speaking to be in any known language,...

Acts 2
Easy-to-Read Version
The Coming of the Holy Spirit
2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a noise came from heaven. It sounded like a strong wind blowing. This noise filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw something that looked like flames of fire. The flames were separated and stood over each person there. 4 They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they began to speak different languages. The Holy Spirit was giving them the power to do this.

5 There were some godly Jews in Jerusalem at this time. They were from every country in the world. 6 A large crowd came together because they heard the noise. They were surprised because, as the apostles were speaking, everyone heard in their own language.

7 They were all amazed at this. They did not understand how the apostles could do this. They said, “Look! These men we hear speaking are all from Galilee.[a] 8 But we hear them in our own languages. How is this possible? We are from all these different places: 9 Parthia, Media, Elam, Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus, Asia, 10 Phrygia, Pamphylia, Egypt, the areas of Libya near the city of Cyrene, Rome, 11 Crete, and Arabia. Some of us were born Jews, and others have changed their religion to worship God like Jews. We are from these different countries, but we can hear these men in our own languages! We can all understand the great things they are saying about God.”
 
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
With that being the case, as it is true, I have witnessed myself.

I have lived in and attended Churches in every City mentioned.
Miami Fla.
St Louis Mo.
Seattle Wa.
Portland Or.
Los Angeles, Cal.

I have heard the same types of Tongues in each place with very little variation, which says to me, One God, One Spirit, One Tongue between God and man.

What we speak in Tongues is a Spiritual Language not a Earthly one, therefore Linguistic rules do not apply.

Also, as a side note, whenever I speak in English even if at some length, I do not feel the same as when I speak in an Unknown Tongue in Prayer, even though I have no idea as to what is being spoken by me.

I guess what I am feeling is the Edification of myself by the Holy Spirit of God.

The sounds they are making are from the English Language. Many people likely imitate what they have heard others say. One televised or radio show where tongues are spoken would account for that. If it were one and the same spirit, we would expect the various tongues to be as diverse as those in Acts 2
 
Upvote 0

ARBITER01

Legend
Aug 12, 2007
13,348
1,695
✟161,131.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
I'll post when I get off from work.

In the mean time, let's make sure we are understanding that The Holy Spirit doesn't lie to us or create contradictions in scripture. We are the ones who can be wrong, not Him.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Daniel Marsh
Upvote 0

ARBITER01

Legend
Aug 12, 2007
13,348
1,695
✟161,131.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
Acts 2
Easy-to-Read Version
The Coming of the Holy Spirit
2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a noise came from heaven. It sounded like a strong wind blowing. This noise filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw something that looked like flames of fire. The flames were separated and stood over each person there. 4 They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they began to speak different languages. The Holy Spirit was giving them the power to do this.

5 There were some godly Jews in Jerusalem at this time. They were from every country in the world. 6 A large crowd came together because they heard the noise. They were surprised because, as the apostles were speaking, everyone heard in their own language.

7 They were all amazed at this. They did not understand how the apostles could do this. They said, “Look! These men we hear speaking are all from Galilee.[a] 8 But we hear them in our own languages. How is this possible? We are from all these different places: 9 Parthia, Media, Elam, Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus, Asia, 10 Phrygia, Pamphylia, Egypt, the areas of Libya near the city of Cyrene, Rome, 11 Crete, and Arabia. Some of us were born Jews, and others have changed their religion to worship God like Jews. We are from these different countries, but we can hear these men in our own languages! We can all understand the great things they are saying about God.”

Before we get to Acts 2, we have to acknowledge 1 Corinthians 14:2,...

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

We can't ignore this scriptural fact, when a person is speaking in tongues, it is to GOD and not man. It is not a human language.

I know what people think that Acts 2 means, but most of them refuse to acknowledge this section of scripture by The Holy Spirit, and it's importance sets the stage for the proper understanding of Acts 2.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Before we get to Acts 2, we have to acknowledge 1 Corinthians 14:2,...



We can't ignore this scriptural fact, when a person is speaking in tongues, it is to GOD and not man. It is not a human language.

I know what people think that Acts 2 means, but most of them refuse to acknowledge this section of scripture by The Holy Spirit, and it's importance sets the stage for the proper understanding of Acts 2.

Your assumption that speaking in tongues is not a human language --- that is how the mystery cults back then did it. The word tongue in King James Language back then had the meaning of languages which Acts 2 clearly shows us. Paul uses music to prove that "tongues" are human languages. Your I cor 14:2 proof text only says whom one is speaking to, until it is translated or interpreted. Translation is in fact interpreting.


tongue noun

To save this word, you'll need to log in.

Log In
\ ˈtəŋ \
Definition of tongue (Entry 1 of 3)
1a: a fleshy movable muscular process of the floor of the mouths of most vertebrates that bears sensory end organs and small glands and functions especially in taking and swallowing food and in humans as a speech organ
b: a part of various invertebrate animals that is analogous to the tongue
2: the flesh of a tongue (as of the ox or sheep) used as food
3a: LANGUAGE
especially : a spoken language

b: manner or quality of utterance with respect to tone or sound, the sense of what is expressed, or the intention of the speaker
she has a clever tongue
a sharp tongue

1 Corinthians 14
Easy-to-Read Version
Use Spiritual Gifts to Help the Church
14 Love should be the goal of your life, but you should also want to have the gifts that come from the Spirit. And the gift you should want most is to be able to prophesy. 2 I will explain why. Those who have the gift of speaking in a different languages are not speaking to people. They are speaking to God. No one understands them—they are speaking secret things through the Spirit. 3 But those who prophesy are speaking to people. They help people grow stronger in faith, and they give encouragement and comfort. 4 Those who speak in a different language are helping only themselves. But those who prophesy are helping the whole church.

5 I would like all of you to have the gift of speaking in different languages. But what I want more is for you to prophesy. Anyone who prophesies is more important than those who can only speak in different languages. However, if they can also interpret those languages, they are as important as the one who prophesies. If they can interpret, then the church can be helped by what they say.

6 Brothers and sisters, will it help you if I come to you speaking in different languages? No, it will help you only if I bring you a new truth or some knowledge, prophecy, or teaching. 7 This is true even with lifeless things that make sounds—like a flute or a harp. If the different musical notes are not made clear, you can’t understand what song is being played. Each note must be played clearly for you to be able to understand the tune. 8 And in a war, if the trumpet does not sound clearly, the soldiers will not know it is time to prepare for fighting.

9 It is the same with you. If you don’t speak clearly in a language people know, they cannot understand what you are saying. You will be talking to the air! 10 It is true that there are many different languages in the world, and they all have meaning. 11 But if I don’t understand the meaning of what someone is saying, it will just be strange sounds to me, and I will sound just as strange to them. 12 That’s why you who want spiritual gifts so much should prefer those gifts that help the church grow stronger.

13 So those who have the gift of speaking in a different language should pray that they can also interpret what they say. 14 If I pray in a different language, my spirit is praying, but my mind does nothing. 15 So what should I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind. I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 16 You might be praising God with your spirit. But someone there without understanding cannot say “Amen” to your prayer of thanks, because they don’t know what you are saying. 17 You may be thanking God in a good way, but others are not helped.

18 I thank God that my gift of speaking in different kinds of languages is greater than any of yours. 19 But in the church meetings I would rather speak five words that I understand than thousands of words in a different language. I would rather speak with my understanding, so that I can teach others.

20 Brothers and sisters, don’t think like children. In evil things be like babies, but in your thinking you should be like full-grown adults. 21 As the Scriptures[a] say,

“Using those who speak a different language
and using the lips of foreigners,
I will speak to these people.
But even then, they will not obey me.”

This is what the Lord says.

22 And from this we see that the use of different languages shows how God deals with those who don’t believe, not with those who believe. And prophecy shows how God works through those who believe, not through unbelievers. 23 Suppose the whole church meets together and you all speak in different languages. If some people come in who are without understanding or don’t believe, they will say you are crazy. 24 But suppose you are all prophesying and someone comes in who does not believe or who is without understanding. Their sin will be shown to them, and they will be judged by everything you say. 25 The secret things in their heart will be made known. So they will bow down and worship God. They will say, “Without a doubt, God is here with you.”

Your Meetings Should Be Helpful to All
26 So, brothers and sisters, what should you do? When you meet together, one person has a song, another has a teaching, and another has a new truth from God. One person speaks in a different language, and another interprets that language. The purpose of whatever you do should be to help everyone grow stronger in faith. 27 When you meet together, if anyone speaks to the group in a different language, it should be only two or no more than three people who do this. And they should speak one after the other. And someone else should interpret what they say. 28 But if there is no interpreter, then anyone who speaks in a different language should be quiet in the church meeting. They should speak only to themselves and to God.

29 And only two or three prophets should speak. The others should judge what they say. 30 And if a message from God comes to someone who is sitting, the first speaker should be quiet. 31 You can all prophesy one after the other. This way everyone can be taught and encouraged. 32 The spirits of prophets are under the control of the prophets themselves. 33 God is not a God of confusion but a God of peace. This is the rule for all the meetings of God’s people.

34 The women should keep quiet in these church meetings. They are not allowed to speak out but should be under authority, as the Law of Moses says. 35 If there is something they want to know, they should ask their own husbands at home. It is shameful for a woman to speak up like that in the church meeting.

36 God’s teaching did not come from you, and you are not the only ones who have received it. 37 If you think you are a prophet or that you have a spiritual gift, you should understand that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38 If you do not accept this, you will not be accepted.

39 So my brothers and sisters, continue to give your attention to prophesying. And don’t stop anyone from using the gift of speaking in different languages. 40 But everything should be done in a way that is right and orderly.

Footnotes
1 Corinthians 14:21 Scriptures Literally, “law,” which sometimes means the Old Testament.
1 Corinthians 14:25 See Isa. 45:14 and Zech. 8:23.

Zechariah 8:23
Easy-to-Read Version
23 The Lord All-Powerful says, “At that time many foreigners speaking different languages will come to a Jewish man, take hold of the hem of his robe, and ask, ‘We heard that God is with you. Can we come with you to worship him?’”

Isaiah 45:14
Easy-to-Read Version
14 The Lord says, “Egypt and Ethiopia are rich,
but, Israel, you will get those riches.
The tall people from Seba will be yours.
They will walk behind you with chains around their necks.
They will bow down before you
and ask you to pray for them and say,
‘The true God really is with you,
and there is no other God.’”
 
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
To qualify, I believe all spiritual gifts are still for today. What I see is simply out of order. Before you miss use Romans 8:26...

Romans 8:26
Easy-to-Read Version

26 Also, the Spirit helps us. We are very weak, but the Spirit helps us with our weakness. We don’t know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit himself speaks to God for us. He begs God for us, speaking to him with feelings too deep for words.

King James Bible
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

The key is it is deep emotion by the Holy Spirit that we can not express. Yes, we are capable of deep emotions, but not as deep as those of the Holy Spirit.

Literal Standard Version
And in like manner also, the Spirit helps our weaknesses; for what we may pray for, as it is necessary, we have not known, but [this] One—the Spirit—makes intercession for us with unutterable groanings,

English Standard Version
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

Amplified Bible
In the same way the Spirit [comes to us and] helps us in our weakness. We do not know what prayer to offer or how to offer it as we should, but the Spirit Himself [knows our need and at the right time] intercedes on our behalf with sighs and groanings too deep for words.

unutterable
Pronunciation /ˌənˈədərəb(ə)l/
See synonyms for unutterable
Translate unutterable into Spanish

ADJECTIVE
Too great, intense, or awful to describe.

‘those private moments of unutterable grief’
UNUTTERABLE | Definition of UNUTTERABLE by Oxford Dictionary on Lexico.com also meaning of UNUTTERABLE

The whole point it is the Holy Spirit praying separate from us, not through our mouth.

check out the Oxford Advanced American Dictionary in your local library for word history of use.

Next post is Romans 8 to read in context.
 
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Romans 8
Easy-to-Read Version
Life in the Spirit
8 So now anyone who is in Christ Jesus is not judged guilty. 2 That is because in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit that brings life made you[a] free. It made you free from the law that brings sin and death. 3 The law was without power because it was made weak by our sinful selves. But God did what the law could not do: He sent his own Son to earth with the same human life that everyone else uses for sin. God sent him to be an offering to pay for sin. So God used a human life to destroy sin. 4 He did this so that we could be right just as the law said we must be. Now we don’t live following our sinful selves. We live following the Spirit.

5 People who live following their sinful selves think only about what they want. But those who live following the Spirit are thinking about what the Spirit wants them to do. 6 If your thinking is controlled by your sinful self, there is spiritual death. But if your thinking is controlled by the Spirit, there is life and peace. 7 Why is this true? Because anyone whose thinking is controlled by their sinful self is against God. They refuse to obey God’s law. And really they are not able to obey it. 8 Those who are ruled by their sinful selves cannot please God.

9 But you are not ruled by your sinful selves. You are ruled by the Spirit, if that Spirit of God really lives in you. But whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Christ. 10 Your body will always be dead because of sin. But if Christ is in you, then the Spirit gives you life, because Christ made you right with God. 11 God raised Jesus from death. And if God’s Spirit lives in you, he will also give life to your bodies that die. Yes, God is the one who raised Christ from death, and he will raise you to life through his Spirit living in you.

12 So, my brothers and sisters, we must not be ruled by our sinful selves. We must not live the way our sinful selves want. 13 If you use your lives to do what your sinful selves want, you will die spiritually. But if you use the Spirit’s help to stop doing the wrong things you do with your body, you will have true life.

14 The true children of God are those who let God’s Spirit lead them. 15 The Spirit that we received is not a spirit that makes us slaves again and causes us to fear. The Spirit that we have makes us God’s chosen children. And with that Spirit we cry out, “ Abba, Father.” 16 And the Spirit himself speaks to our spirits and makes us sure that we are God’s children. 17 If we are God’s children, we will get the blessings God has for his people. He will give us all that he has given Christ. But we must suffer like Christ suffered. Then we will be able to share his glory.

We Will Have Glory in the Future
18 We have sufferings now, but these are nothing compared to the great glory that will be given to us. 19 Everything that God made is waiting with excitement for the time when he will show the world who his children are. The whole world wants very much for that to happen. 20 Everything God made was allowed to become like something that cannot fulfill its purpose. That was not its choice, but God made it happen with this hope in view: 21 That the creation would be made free from ruin—that everything God made would have the same freedom and glory that belong to God’s children.

22 We know that everything God made has been waiting until now in pain like a woman ready to give birth to a child. 23 Not only the world, but we also have been waiting with pain inside us. We have the Spirit as the first part of God’s promise. So we are waiting for God to finish making us his own children. I mean we are waiting for our bodies to be made free. 24 We were saved to have this hope. If we can see what we are waiting for, that is not really hope. People don’t hope for something they already have. 25 But we are hoping for something we don’t have yet, and we are waiting for it patiently.

26 Also, the Spirit helps us. We are very weak, but the Spirit helps us with our weakness. We don’t know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit himself speaks to God for us. He begs God for us, speaking to him with feelings too deep for words. 27 God already knows our deepest thoughts. And he understands what the Spirit is saying, because the Spirit speaks for his people in the way that agrees with what God wants.

28 We know that in everything God works for the good of those who love him. These are the people God chose, because that was his plan. 29 God knew them before he made the world. And he decided that they would be like his Son. Then Jesus would be the firstborn of many brothers and sisters. 30 God planned for them to be like his Son. He chose them and made them right with him. And after he made them right, he gave them his glory.

God’s Love in Christ Jesus
31 So what should we say about this? If God is for us, no one can stand against us. And God is with us. 32 He even let his own Son suffer for us. God gave his Son for all of us. So now with Jesus, God will surely give us all things. 33 Who can accuse the people God has chosen? No one! God is the one who makes them right. 34 Who can say that God’s people are guilty? No one! Christ Jesus died for us, but that is not all. He was also raised from death. And now he is at God’s right side, speaking to him for us. 35 Can anything separate us from Christ’s love? Can trouble or problems or persecution separate us from his love? If we have no food or clothes or face danger or even death, will that separate us from his love? 36 As the Scriptures say,

“For you we are in danger of death all the time.
People think we are worth no more than sheep to be killed.”

37 But in all these troubles we have complete victory through God, who has shown his love for us. 38-39 Yes, I am sure that nothing can separate us from God’s love—not death, life, angels, or ruling spirits. I am sure that nothing now, nothing in the future, no powers, nothing above us or nothing below us—nothing in the whole created world—will ever be able to separate us from the love God has shown us in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Footnotes
Romans 8:2 you Some Greek copies have “me.” Also in the next sentence.
Romans 8:15 Abba An Aramaic word that was used by Jewish children as a name for their fathers.
 
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Remember what Jesus said about Prayer:

Matthew 6:6
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Matthew 6:7
English Standard Version
7 “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ARBITER01

Legend
Aug 12, 2007
13,348
1,695
✟161,131.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
I wasn't the one who said it was a language not understood by men, GOD did. What was spoken by Paul by The Holy Spirit is just as important as what The Holy Spirit said through Peter over in Acts 2,....

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

You don't have to convince us that it is a language, we know that it is a language, but it is understood by GOD, not us, like scripture says, hence why it requires another gift to interpret it and provide the understanding.
 
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Hey Daniel!

So, do you still believe that the sign gifts are for today? Like prophecy, tongues, things like that?

Ephesians 4:11-14
Easy-to-Read Version
11 And that same Christ gave these gifts to people: He made some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to go and tell the Good News, and some to care for and teach God’s people.[a] 12 Christ gave these gifts to prepare God’s holy people for the work of serving, to make the body of Christ stronger. 13 This work must continue until we are all joined together in what we believe and in what we know about the Son of God. Our goal is to become like a full-grown man—to look just like Christ and have all his perfection.

14 Then we will no longer be like babies. We will not be people who are always changing like a ship that the waves carry one way and then another. We will not be influenced by every new teaching we hear from people who are trying to deceive us—those who make clever plans and use every kind of trick to fool others into following the wrong way.

Scripture is plan that all the gifts are active until verse 13 is completed or fulfilled. Cleary, the church today has not meet that standard. The question was asked concerning those who are making a public spectacle of themselves. All of us Christians are to use discernment and wisdom from knowing Jesus and from knowing the Scriptures to avoid being led astray by every wind of doctrine. I often question things that do not meet the principles of scripture. God's will is for worship services to be in good order ( I cor 14 ).
The research I have done on speaking in unknown languages tells me what is going on today is likely of the flesh of people. Acts 2 makes it clear that speaking in tongues is human languages that are know to people who speaks those languages, but are unknown to the person speaking in them. On two occasions in the middle of a revival period that followed me where ever I went in the military God use tongues as missionary tongues to Iranian Pilots. Who gave their lives to Christ and were executed for leaving Islam. Often when I visited a pentecostal church, the church tried to teach people to speak in tongues by priming the pump as they call it. That alone tells me that what is going on is human driven, not by God. Yes, I think all the gifts are still for today. We need to test what we see.

I cor 13:8-10 has historically been joined to the second coming by quoting from one of John's letters.

Ephesians 4:11-14
King James Version
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
 
Upvote 0

ARBITER01

Legend
Aug 12, 2007
13,348
1,695
✟161,131.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
Sorry, the verse is self explanatory to all Christians,...

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

We operate in the gifts, you don't. Coming here to "try" and explain to us your book knowledge means nothing when you have no real practical experience.

You should read the Community statement about teaching against our theology in our forum.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Daniel Marsh
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Sorry, the verse is self explanatory to all Christians,...

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

We operate in the gifts, you don't. Coming here to "try" and explain to us your book knowledge means nothing when you have no real practical experience.

You should read the Community statement about teaching against our theology in our forum.

I believe all the spiritual gifts are for today.

for no man understandeth; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

These two lines is what known as a parallel meaning that both lines are different ways of saying the same thing. Basically, what is being spoken is a mystery. One can understand the words, but does not understand the meaning.

You happen to be using the same arguments that Christian Science uses when I speak to people in that church their website: Christian Science


mys·ter·y = something that is difficult or impossible to understand or explain.

Synonymous parallelism involves the repetition in the second part of what has already been expressed in the first, while simply varying the words.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
6 Brothers and sisters, will it help you if I come to you speaking in different languages? No, it will help you only if I bring you a new truth or some knowledge, prophecy, or teaching. 7 This is true even with lifeless things that make sounds—like a flute or a harp. If the different musical notes are not made clear, you can’t understand what song is being played. Each note must be played clearly for you to be able to understand the tune. 8 And in a war, if the trumpet does not sound clearly, the soldiers will not know it is time to prepare for fighting.

9 It is the same with you. If you don’t speak clearly in a language people know, they cannot understand what you are saying. You will be talking to the air! 10 It is true that there are many different languages in the world, and they all have meaning. 11 But if I don’t understand the meaning of what someone is saying, it will just be strange sounds to me, and I will sound just as strange to them. 12 That’s why you who want spiritual gifts so much should prefer those gifts that help the church grow stronger.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.