What proof would you need?

[Loudmouth]

That's not constructive criticism.

But directly to your point,
Energy cannot be created nor destroyed.
Mass at rest and motionless remains at rest and motionless unless acted upon.
So...given an empty void, why did something just happen?

What does this have to do with the age of the Earth or evolution?

The universe could have been created by a supernatural deity at the Big Bang and the age of the Earth would still be 4.55 billion years and evolution would still occur.

 

[Loudmouth]

I challenged the evocrew. They claim to know more about evolution than you or I, mind you, and I've seen thousands of evostories. I challenged them to produce one evostory which withstands scrutiny. Think about that. One! Surely in such a vast mountain of "science" there should be something worthy.

Here is your challenge:

Given the size of vertebrate genomes (>1 × 109 bp) and the random nature of retroviral integration (22, 23), multiple integrations (and subsequent fixation) of ERV loci at precisely the same location are highly unlikely (24). Therefore, an ERV locus shared by two or more species is descended from a single integration event and is proof that the species share a common ancestor into whose germ line the original integration took place (14).
Constructing primate phylogenies from ancient retrovirus sequences
​

If I am able to show that humans and chimps share thousands of retroviral insertions at the same loci in their genome, can you please explain why this is not evidence of humans and chimps sharing a common ancestor?

Also, you claimed that evos are lying, and yet you can't point to a single one. Why is that? Do you always accuse people of lying even when you have no proof of it? Isn't that called "bearing false witness"? Are there only 9 commandments in your Bible?

 

[CTD]

Here is your challenge:

Given the size of vertebrate genomes (>1 × 109 bp) and the random nature of retroviral integration (22, 23), multiple integrations (and subsequent fixation) of ERV loci at precisely the same location are highly unlikely (24). Therefore, an ERV locus shared by two or more species is descended from a single integration event and is proof that the species share a common ancestor into whose germ line the original integration took place (14).
Constructing primate phylogenies from ancient retrovirus sequences
​

If I am able to show that humans and chimps share thousands of retroviral insertions at the same loci in their genome, can you please explain why this is not evidence of humans and chimps sharing a common ancestor?

Also, you claimed that evos are lying, and yet you can't point to a single one. Why is that? Do you always accuse people of lying even when you have no proof of it? Isn't that called "bearing false witness"? Are there only 9 commandments in your Bible?

I never promised to go element by element, attempting to debunk every single lie, did I? I recall committing to tackle precisely one. Is my memory faulty?

Sore losers...

 

[Davian]

Maybe if you guys didn't spend an inordinately large amount of your time and focus on Him, we would think otherwise.

Maybe if atheists stopped acting like they know the Bible through-and-through, using Strong's concordance, copy-and-pasting chunks of this, that, and the other thing, etc. and so-on, we would think otherwise.

As I have said before:

• Mention Allah = meh
• Mention Joseph Smith = meh
• Mention Zeus, Thor, Wooden = meh
• Mention Jesus Christ = look out! It's 20-questions from the atheist camp!

You guys act like you're experts on OEC, YEC, Embedded Age, Last Thursday, and Omphalos -- even going as far as to tell me what I am, despite what's in my profile.


If you knew the Koran or the Bhagavad-Gita 1/100 of what you "know" about the Bible, maybe I'd assume you might have a case for the points you make; but you're focus is solely and totally against Jesus Christ and the Bible.


I don't know -- I haven't been there -- but I'd venture a guess and say you guys won't be found discussing these things in the Jewish threads, or the Mormon threads, or wherever.

And that's probably because they'd rip you apart with documentation you probably haven't even begun to know existed, then send you back here with egg on your faces.

It's okay to tell a Gap theorist that Gap theory is wrong, isn't it? or an Embedded Ager that Embedded Age is wrong -- but I'll bet you 10 cents on the dollar you wouldn't dare go to the Jewish threads and tell them they are ignorant, bronze-age, goat herders, would you?

I would agree with your comments were we in the Exploring Christianity forum. But these are the sciences forums.

The more interesting question is, why do *you* come *here*?

Ya -- I get the impression you guys hate Jesus Christ too -- along with His followers.

I hope you do not get that impression of me.

 

[Loudmouth]

I never promised to go element by element, attempting to debunk every single lie, did I? I recall committing to tackle precisely one. Is my memory faulty?

Sore losers...

So I see that you can't expose the "evolies". Thanks for playing.

 

[CTD]

Why not take belief out of the equation and look at the evidence?

Typical self-contradiction. Why bother looking unless one believes one's own eyes?

And even after that, there are plenty more beliefs involved. Boy!

How could one believe one should take belief out of the equation?

 

[Davian]

So the Antichrist will demonstrate abiogenesis, and Jesus will falsify the theory of evolution.

Biology Battle!

Who goes first?



Will they be taking on any other scientific theories while they are at it? Gravitational theory could use some work.

Oh, you bet.

In the future, we aren't even going to need the sun, and neither will plants.

There will even be a tree that bears a different fruit each month; and lions that eat ... get this ... straw!

Seriously, do you just make this stuff up?

 

[CTD]

So I see that you can't expose the "evolies". Thanks for playing.

More backward conclusions, eh?

If there was something worthy, why wasn't it presented?

Your bluff is for fools, exclusively. I slay one, you bring another. It falls you bring another. Ever hear of a fallacy called 'infinite regress'? There is no limit to the number of false statements you can generate. I don't deny that. What I do deny is your fantasy that your capacity to generate false statements makes you strong.

I have demonstrated that Evolanders themselves have zero confidence in the mountain of spam. That was my objective, and it's accomplished. I won. ...And it was so easy anyone could've done it.

Of course even knowing their stockpile of spam to be worthless won't convince them, and that's what the thread's all about.

 

[Loudmouth]

More backward conclusions, eh?

If there was something worthy, why wasn't it presented?

I did present it. Here it is again:

Here is your challenge:

Given the size of vertebrate genomes (>1 × 109 bp) and the random nature of retroviral integration (22, 23), multiple integrations (and subsequent fixation) of ERV loci at precisely the same location are highly unlikely (24). Therefore, an ERV locus shared by two or more species is descended from a single integration event and is proof that the species share a common ancestor into whose germ line the original integration took place (14).
Constructing primate phylogenies from ancient retrovirus sequences
​

If I am able to show that humans and chimps share thousands of retroviral insertions at the same loci in their genome, can you please explain why this is not evidence of humans and chimps sharing a common ancestor?

Your bluff is for fools, exclusively. I slay one, you bring another.

No bluff. Either deal with the evidence or admit that your claims of evolies are all bluster.

Ever hear of a fallacy called 'infinite regress'? There is no limit to the number of false statements you can generate.

That is not infinite regress. Also, you have not shown that my statement is false. Again, you are all bluster.

What I do deny is your fantasy that your capacity to generate false statements makes you strong.

Please point to the false statement that I posted. If you are going to call me a liar at least have the temerity to point to the lies.

I have demonstrated that Evolanders themselves have zero confidence in the mountain of spam. That was my objective, and it's accomplished. I won. ...And it was so easy anyone could've done it.

Where did you demonstrate that? You asked for evidence. It was posted. Now you are running away from it. That is a loss in your column.

 

[Loudmouth]

Typical self-contradiction. Why bother looking unless one believes one's own eyes?

You don't need to believe your own eyes. That is why empirical evidence is so powerful. You can check to see if your findings are the same as other people's findings. If everyone gets the same results from the same experiment then it is accepted as a valid result.

And even after that, there are plenty more beliefs involved. Boy!

Such as?

 

[CTD]

Typical self-contradiction. Why bother looking unless one believes one's own eyes?

You don't need to believe your own eyes.

Garbage. If you didn't believe your own eyes, you wouldn't have responded to my post.

That is why empirical evidence is so powerful.

Real empirical science is powerful, and it's observation based. It's also faith based, as is any productive activity. Your perversion of empirical methodology is disgusting.

You can check to see if your findings are the same as other people's findings. If everyone gets the same results from the same experiment then it is accepted as a valid result.

And even after that, there are plenty more beliefs involved. Boy!

Such as?

The very sentence before the silly question. There's no escaping belief.

Even altering your contention hasn't helped. You weren't advocating anything empirical consulting others. You said:

Why not take belief out of the equation and look at the evidence?

It is impossible to take belief out of the equation, and obviously so. One cannot look without believing one's eyes. One cannot recognize evidence without having some belief about the evidence. One cannot apply logic without faith in logic. One cannot conduct experiment without faith in the process and faith in the laws the Living God has established.

Belief is part of life. You advocate death. Not surprising, all things considered.

 

[Split Rock]

As I have said before, when it comes to evolution, evolutionists like to skip over 9 billion years of non-biological evolution and jump right to life -- up and running like clockwork.

And as Mr. Morowitz points out, to even get at the basic unit of life, you have to gloss over a 1/10[sup]340,000,000[/sup] chance of getting there.

It takes more faith to believe evolutionism than it does creationism, doesn't it?

I could also ask "what does the probability of a simple organism pulling itself together randomly in a single event have to do with abiogenesis?" In other words, its a strawman. It isn't applicable to anything in science today.

 

[CTD]

I could also ask "what does the probability of a simple organism pulling itself together randomly in a single event have to do ... It isn't applicable to anything in science today.

Inadvertent truth!

 

[Loudmouth]

Real empirical science is powerful, and it's observation based. It's also faith based, as is any productive activity. Your perversion of empirical methodology is disgusting.

Please point to the perversion or admit that you are all bluster.

The very sentence before the silly question. There's no escaping belief.

Sure there is. Compare your results to other peoples' results. Test your hypothesis from multiple angles. Run controls. There are tons of ways to remove belief from the equation. I ask you to list the beliefs and you have failed, so I can only conclude that your claims are false.

Even altering your contention hasn't helped. You weren't advocating anything empirical consulting others. You said:

It is impossible to take belief out of the equation, and obviously so. One cannot look without believing one's eyes. One cannot recognize evidence without having some belief about the evidence. One cannot apply logic without faith in logic. One cannot conduct experiment without faith in the process and faith in the laws the Living God has established.

As I have already shown, repeatability removes the need for belief. What other beliefs are you talking about?

Also, you have still failed to address the endogenous retrovirus evidence that you claim is a lie. When will you be addressing this, or do you admit that it isn't a lie?

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh, you bet.

In the future, we aren't even going to need the sun, and neither will plants.

There will even be a tree that bears a different fruit each month; and lions that eat ... get this ... straw!

Seriously, do you just make this stuff up?

Seriously, no.

Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Isaiah 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

 

[Split Rock]

Seriously, no.

Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Isaiah 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

REV is fun to read, but it is just crazy talk!

 

[Davian]

Seriously, do you just make this stuff up?

Seriously, no.

Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Isaiah 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

So someone else made it up. Other than 'faith', why would one take the above literally?

 

[AV1611VET]

REV is fun to read, but it is just crazy talk!

It has a tendency to catch the uneducated* off-guard and make them look bad if they laugh.

Seriously, do you just make this stuff up?

 

[AV1611VET]

So someone else made it up. Other than 'faith', why would one take the above literally?

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

 

[SkyWriting]

Is there any evidence that you would accept as evidence for humans sharing a common ancestor with other apes?

Is that some personal religion or something? Why would that have any importance? Of all of the facts in the world, what value is that one?