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What proof would you need? (2)

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Split Rock

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Verysincere, if you want to see Astrid's MO in operation, check out this part of the previous "what proof would you need" thread. She quotes a wiki entry that falsely attributes content to Dawkins' "The Ancestor's Tale".
On page 93 (at the bottom) I correct her.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7608403-93/
On page 94, I continue to correct her, finally directing her to Google books so she can read the pages in question, post screen caps of those pages and a photo of myself, holding my copy of the book, standing next to Dawkins himself.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7608403-94/

Her response?
"Dear the work is quoted..."The Ancestor's Tale""
"That is because the book is quoted. I am not the idiot here...."The Ancestor's Tale" tells it all."
"GO BUY THE BOOK"
And then she quotes the bogus Wiki material one more time.

I put her on Ignore after the upteenth time she claimed that "bird-like" footprints prior to the Jurassic period equalled "modern birds" existing before their dinosaur ancestors. It's a waste of time trying to discuss anything with her.
 
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Astridhere

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Verysincere, if you want to see Astrid's MO in operation, check out this part of the previous "what proof would you need" thread. She quotes a wiki entry that falsely attributes content to Dawkins' "The Ancestor's Tale".
On page 93 (at the bottom) I correct her.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7608403-93/

Darls, I don't need Dawkins and you still haven't contacted them to change the content, You have a reason to lie. Wiki do not.

You also haven't even bothered to challenge the reseach I did post to demonstrate Lucy was just an ape and not in the human line at all, provided it so happens, by your own evolutionary researchers.

All you can do now is side wind and ridicule, Too bad you cannot actually defend your mess of contradictions. Ha Ha
On page 94, I continue to correct her, finally directing her to Google books so she can read the pages in question, post screen caps of those pages and a photo of myself, holding my copy of the book, standing next to Dawkins himself.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7608403-94/
You did not correct my research at all. What USingonito did was ignore it and continue woffling on his merry way with his little straw that makes no difference at all to my assertions.
Her response?
"Dear the work is quoted..."The Ancestor's Tale""
"That is because the book is quoted. I am not the idiot here...."The Ancestor's Tale" tells it all."
"GO BUY THE BOOK"
And then she quotes the bogus Wiki material one more time.
I'll repeat, I do not need Dawkins. You are so desperate, and I have broken you up so bad, that you can now only play this desperate tune.


You both may, with some luck, remember this.


The presence of the morphology in both the latter and Au. afarensis and its absence in modern humans cast doubt on the role of Au. afarensis as a modern human ancestor. The ramal anatomy of the earlier Ardipithecus ramidus is virtually that of a chimpanzee, corroborating the proposed phylogenetic scenario.

Gorilla-like anatomy on Australopithecus afarensis mandibles suggests Au. afarensis link to robust australopiths

How does anyone hold a job when they virtually have no memory?

Are evolutionists the only ones permited to cherry pick research or hand wave away that which is uncomfortable? I'd say that smacks of hypocrisy.

I have plenty of support for my assertions from your very own confused researchers. And the beauty of it is, the more your story tellers provide their biased research all the more support for my views they provide. That's science darls, not your knee jerk psuedo science.

Your reserchers huddle around sprooking support for each other until the 'evidence' is thrown in the great rubbish bin of evolutionary delusions past and that rubbish bin is huge and full of evolutionary falsifications trying to support the impossible, improbable and non plausible.
 
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Astridhere

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What verse exactly do you see as unsupported by evidence?

1) Certainly the Big Bang Theory of 1940AD finally supported a beginning as claimed for 3362 years by the Bible.

2) ...and the Plant Kindom did suddenly establish itself with an Act-of-God we call abiogenesis.

3) There statement about "all the waters under heaven being gathered together into one place" has now been supported with the theory of a Pangea-like tectonic movement.

etc etc etc

Cupid dave, I do not agree with you, but the best thing to do with Cabvet is ignore him. He never has anything of substance to say and he has never been able to offer more than simplistic replies to me.

Cabvet is one of those evolutionists that has no idea what evidence for anything should look like. He is a circle..^_^
 
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Astridhere

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I put her on Ignore after the upteenth time she claimed that "bird-like" footprints prior to the Jurassic period equalled "modern birds" existing before their dinosaur ancestors. It's a waste of time trying to discuss anything with her.

Data is produced. You interpret it to suit your evolutionary paradigm and I interpret it to suit mine.

If you are unable to fathom that concept all the more ignorant you prove yourself to be. It really is that simple.

Creationist interpretations cannot possibly be worse that the mess of contradictions and falsifications evolutionists provide. That is also simple, yet unfathomable to the evolutionary scrambled and inculcated mind.
 
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Astridhere

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All modern science, not just evolutionary biology, is based on the scientific method. The scientific method involves continual questioning and theories are always subject to falsification. Yes, insight often comes through continual testing and falsification. (I have no idea where you got the idea that TOE is exempt from such falsification.)

I am glad you agree. To disagree with the obvious is just a demonstration of hiding ones head in the sand by denial. If you actually do still have a reasoning mind then you can understand much so called 'information' is based on the interpretation of data and the credibility of the data produced.

As to your confidence that you have found devastating flaws in the Theory of Evolution which will overturn 150+ years of scientific inquiry, by all means publish your "manifesto" and win the Nobel Prize. (I'm quite serious. If your ideas are superior, they will survive the scrutiny of peer-review.)
The peer review and publication process is contolled by shmooks that do doubt would expect and demand a higher level of substantiation than ay evolutionist themselves can provide, so I would not waste my time.

BTW I have never seen a Noble prize awarded for any theory, not even an evolutionary one.

One of the best ways to go down in history as a giant of science is to overturn long-held theories. (Despite the "conspiracy theories" of many anti-evolution ranters, the scientific community worldwide reveres those who upset the status quo, revolutionize scientific thinking, and provoke major revisions of textbooks.) After centuries of Newtonian physics, Einstein shocked the world and (with the help of scientists who created experiments to test his theories) convinced physicists of the astounding limitations of Newton's ideas. Politics, ideologies, and other real or imagined human tendencies to preserve the dogmas of the status quo have again and again crumbled as the processes of the scientific method eventually exposed flaws and improved our understanding of the universe.

So if you are certain that you have uncovered "fatal flaws" in the Theory of Evolution, by all means enlighten the world with your analysis by publishing a comprehensive review of TOE.
The fatal flaws in evolutionary theory have always been hand waved away with more ridiculous and non plausible scenarios. Why would I expect anything to change now?

Impress us all and someday we can all recount how we watched you change the landscape of modern biology. And don't complain that the system is rigged against you or that everybody else is blind and biased to the "real truth" (which only you and a disenfranchised minority of anti-evolution crusaders have figured out and embraced.) Einstein was a lowly patent clerk who couldn't find even an adjunct-faculty undergraduate teaching post. Yet, a short article on his theory of relativity instantly catapulted him into the stratosphere of advanced physics. If your work has exceptional merit, the world will take notice.
I do not need to do waste my time publishing papers to falsify any of your silly scenarios. Your own evolutionary researchers are crackers at it, and do it very well themselves.
Meanwhile, you need to learn some of the fundamentals of science in general and biology in particular. It only takes a few seconds of reading your protestations to determine that you aren't going to be granted tenure as part of any biological sciences faculty at a leading accredited university (or at least, not anytime soon). That's not a smug put-down. It is simply reality and I'm showing you the courtesy of trying to help you.
Dear, you cannot refute an unfalsifiable scenario and none of you have done so as yet.

You can no more falsify my interpretation of erectus the ape than I can falsify your scenario of primitive half wit erectus nursing and carrying a dependent new born. They are theories and are both unfalsifiable. Evos may and have accepted the ridiculous many times. However I have to say that you lot have crossed the line with the new erectus female pelvis and the ensuing stories and I think on this one it is falsifiable by evoking good old observation and a little common sense.

Half wits cannot nurture dependent babies and we observe that today. Highly sexually dimorphic primitive beings, and all that it implies also means they could not nurture a dependent neonate. This is research from your very own. A baby is is either not fully dependent and can cling to mum or it cannot and there is nothing in the middle at the time of birth and the ensuing few hours. Hence the obvious suggests that erectus still had a full fur coat and the young still must have clinged to their mother as apes do today.

That is a theory based on observation. Common sense has absolutely no place in evolutionary thinking and nether has observation, it appears.

It comes down to plausibility, and my interpretation of evolutionary research is much more plausible than yours. It is that simple.

Sometimes one of the lowest-achieving students in a class visits the professor's office to argue that his/her wrong answer on an exam question should qualify as an "equally true" alternative answer deserving of full credit. (They may even strain, contort, and twist some perceived flaw in the minutiae of the topic in order to declare the right answer inferior to their incorrect answer.) Sadly, far too many anti-evolution campaigners go far beyond that vain and pathetic strategy on a regular basis and not only contest concepts which they don't even understand, they presume that they are somehow intellectually superior to everyone else in the classroom (as well as the analogue of the entire departmental faculty) and should be teaching the courses and rewriting the textbooks. Does that position sound at all familiar to you?
The position that resembles your scenario best is your very own researchers. After more than 150 years they are no closer to resolving the how, when, where or why of evolution. That strikes me as a pathetic and vain attempt to support the impossible. Your past shoving of rubbish down creationists throats that is now falsified and recanted by your own demonstrates this well.
If you are correct and everyone else is wrong, the best scholars and scientists will affirm your brilliance and confirm your qualifications and the superiority of your ideas. Your mastery of the field will be confirmed by your performance, not by mere posturing. Think about it.

Oh honey, your incredibly well credentialled researchers are the very fools that propose this rubbish prior to the falsification in the first place, therefore your point is mute.


You lot need to understand that you no longer have any credibility at all. Only the gullible are going to listen to new stories that replace old stories and take that as credible.

Indeed credibility resides in the continuing support of an over arching theory ("It all evolved" "It was all created") by the underlying theories that support it.

On this basis, you evos have no credibility what so ever, but my paradigm continues to be supported and substantiated as your flavours of the month turn to dust and erectus gets more primitive and non plausible.

That's what it's all about and no amount of ignorance, handwaving away, side winding, ridicule or denial is going to change that fact.

Fortunately for me I am not as gullible as you appear to be.
 
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verysincere

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Does that explain why so many people find your posts so convincing?

Yes, after Astrid's recent contributions, I guess it's time for someone to step forward and do the right thing and officially declare Kruger-Dunning.
 
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Astridhere

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Mr Strawberry,

The best entertainment for me at present is simplistic replies such as yours that in no way address my interpretations but rather suggest that smart butt comments are all that you have to challenge me with.

Based on this fact. I have already won.
 
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Mr Strawberry

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Mr Strawberry,

The best entertainment for me at present is simplistic replies such as yours that in no way address my interpretations but rather suggest that smart butt comments are all that you have to challenge me with.

Based on this fact. I have already won.

It was a serious question. If your posts are full of the fruits of your canny avoidance of gullibility then they should impress other people as being refreshingly free of fallacy, logical flaws, falsehoods and error. One of the drawbacks, however, of being duped, is not noticing when it is happening. This is why feedback from the wider community is important, particularly from people who know more you do about the subject you have developed an opinion on. I just wondered if the feedback you'd received to your posts had confirmed your high opinion of your own opinions. That is to say, do people generally think you are talking sense or nonsense?
 
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Astridhere

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Verysincere

Underneath my words on your door you can add that you were the goose that disagreed with me.

Emphasis on discoveries over inventions
Alfred Nobel left his fortune to finance annual prizes to be awarded "to those who, during the preceding year, shall have conferred the greatest benefit on mankind." He stated that the Nobel Prizes in Physics should be given "to the person who shall have made the most important 'discovery' or 'invention' within the field of physics." Nobel did not emphasise discoveries, but they have historically been held in higher respect by the Nobel Prize Committee than inventions: 77% of the Physics Prizes have been given to discoveries, compared with only 23% to inventions. Christoph Bartneck and Matthias Rauterberg, in papers published in Nature and Technoetic Arts, have argued this emphasis on discoveries has moved the Nobel Prize away from its original intention of rewarding the greatest contribution to society.[137][138]
Nobel Prize - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As I said

"That's what it's all about and no amount of ignorance, handwaving away, side winding, ridicule or denial is going to change that fact."

You have provided another excellent example of my claim in sidewinding and NOT being able to challenge me with anything more than ridicule and sidewinding away on any aside you can hit that keeps you away from addressing anything I have to say, let alone successfully refuting me with any substance. Ridicule and sidewinding, of course, does not count as it is not a scientific stance. It is just your attempt to mask the fact that you have nothing intelligent to say at this point.

Go ahead and say something intelligent if your are such a clued in evo. Most of you have no clue as demonstrated so far.

Show me how a half witted erectus had the intelligence to complete the complex task of firelighting. Observation in the real world denies this possibility. Using flint or stick rubbing is most certainly a complex task, or do you think erectus had lighters or matches.

Show me why you lot suggest that a hugely sexually dimorphic
creature as proposed by your evo researchers could possibly have reared a fully dependent baby to independence. They are primitive. They get around humping each other with instrinsic inate drives driving their world not carrying neonates in arms as they trecked across the savanah or forest whilst remembering to feed at regular intervals. That is what rearing a dependent neonate entails.

Your theory made more sense when brain size was tied to bipedalism. It would make even more sense if full modern human brain capacity was reached prior to the thining of fur. It would make more sense if erectus was still a hairy ape just starting to become smart enough to nurture their young as their fur thinned and their babies needed more and more nuturing such that they were already intelligent enough to nurture fully dependent neonates before the ability to cling to the mother was lost
As it stands your theory is non plausible.

I can even predict your researchers realizing this as time goes on and the further furring up of erectus in time after realizing just how ridiculous their current asssumptions and speculations are. If they do remember you heard it first from a creationist.

BTW..I have recieved many congrats and reputations for my posts and I do not stand alone in by beliefs and interpretations.

So if smart butt comments are all you have, it looks like I win this point unchallenged.
 
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Davian

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BTW I have never seen a Noble prize awarded for any theory, not even an evolutionary one.

Now that one is definitely going on my office door!
Good catch. I tend to ignore posts where the poster is unable to properly format the quote tags.

On the subject of Nobel prizes:

"To see the integral role of evolution in biomedical research, consider Nobel Prizes, a good indicator of the most important breakthroughs in biology. Reviewing the last 50 years of Nobel Prizes in medicine or physiology, I asked, "Is training in evolutionary biology necessary for a thorough understanding of the award-winning discoveries and work resulting from each breakthrough?" By my criteria, understanding of evolution is necessary in 47 of 50 cases. From vaccines, viral cancer genes, and nerve cell communication to drug trials, and genes controlling cholesterol and heart disease, evolutionary insights are crucial."

Evolution is a Winner for Breakthroughs and Prizes | NCSE


...
Creationist interpretations cannot possibly be worse that the mess of contradictions and falsifications evolutionists provide. That is also simple, yet unfathomable to the evolutionary scrambled and inculcated mind.

Astridhere, what contributions have creationist interpretations made to biomedical research?
 
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Astridhere

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It was a serious question. If your posts are full of the fruits of your canny avoidance of gullibility then they should impress other people as being refreshingly free of fallacy, logical flaws, falsehoods and error. One of the drawbacks, however, of being duped, is not noticing when it is happening. This is why feedback from the wider community is important, particularly from people who know more you do about the subject you have developed an opinion on. I just wondered if the feedback you'd received to your posts had confirmed your high opinion of your own opinions. That is to say, do people generally think you are talking sense or nonsense?

You need to actually provide some plausible explantions in opposition to my interpretations.

As it stands none of you are able to, not even one of you.

A gorilla with a 650cc brain capacity is within the size range of erectus as the 900 is only an average. A gorilla will never learn to light a fire with sticks or flint no mater how many times you demonstrate.

Erectus craniums are the same shape as rudolfensis now seen with a 525cc brain. My observations and interpretations are as good as yours. However evolutionists are intoxicated with TOE and this has diminished their capacity to reason amd dampened their ability to use use common sense and pay attention to observations that contradict their speculations.

I love it when you lot side wind and ridicule me as it demonstrates and proves that is the best you lot can come up with.

The calibre of your reply is about all I get and it means nothing, let alone providing any refute to my interpretations.
 
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Astridhere

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Good catch. I tend to ignore posts where the poster is unable to properly format the quote tags.

On the subject of Nobel prizes:

"To see the integral role of evolution in biomedical research, consider Nobel Prizes, a good indicator of the most important breakthroughs in biology. Reviewing the last 50 years of Nobel Prizes in medicine or physiology, I asked, "Is training in evolutionary biology necessary for a thorough understanding of the award-winning discoveries and work resulting from each breakthrough?" By my criteria, understanding of evolution is necessary in 47 of 50 cases. From vaccines, viral cancer genes, and nerve cell communication to drug trials, and genes controlling cholesterol and heart disease, evolutionary insights are crucial."

Evolution is a Winner for Breakthroughs and Prizes | NCSE

How cells divide is based on an observed demonstration and actually has nothing to do with supporting evolution which is speculation and straw grabbing ignoring and excusing that which does not align eg homoplasy and convergent evolution, deletions and insertions, all based on a reconcieved assumption. I am not an IDer.


What a Nobel Prize is or is not has absolutely nothing to do with the point I made on the ape erectus.

I am taking on one point in erectus and you flatly refuse to speak to it.


Astridhere, what contributions have creationist interpretations made to biomedical research?

Here we go again. Now you want to lean on asides. How does your question address anything I spoke to. Clearly it doesn't. Yet you lot will continue to persist with any desperate aside for as long as you are unable to refute me.

All you are demonstrating to my collegues is that indeed you have no idea where to begin to challenge me, further demonstrating the obvious credibility of my assertions.

How about you lot try something novel and actually deal with providing a refute to my interpretations instead of constant woffling, ridicule and asides that have nothing to do with it?
 
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Davian

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Good catch. I tend to ignore posts where the poster is unable to properly format the quote tags.

On the subject of Nobel prizes:

"To see the integral role of evolution in biomedical research, consider Nobel Prizes, a good indicator of the most important breakthroughs in biology. Reviewing the last 50 years of Nobel Prizes in medicine or physiology, I asked, "Is training in evolutionary biology necessary for a thorough understanding of the award-winning discoveries and work resulting from each breakthrough?" By my criteria, understanding of evolution is necessary in 47 of 50 cases. From vaccines, viral cancer genes, and nerve cell communication to drug trials, and genes controlling cholesterol and heart disease, evolutionary insights are crucial."

Evolution is a Winner for Breakthroughs and Prizes | NCSE

Astridhere, what contributions have creationist interpretations made to biomedical research?

...constant woffling...

None, it would seem.

Carry on without me.
 
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Astridhere

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Mr Strawberry has yet again substantiated my assertion that evolutionists are gobsmacked and unable to mount any refute to my fur laden erectus ape interpretation. It is better than your interpretation of erectus data, makes more sense and aligns with observation better than any evo one.

Asking the same question that has no bearing on refuting me is really sad. I have already answered by saying that evolutionists are intoxicated and inculcated and are unable to to see the forest for the trees.

At the very least my interpretations cannot possibly worse than what you lot have to offer.

Thanks Mr Strawberry for your ongoing substantiation of your inability to provide any reply of substance.

Let's see if your next post is any better and actually demonstrates the error of my reasoning with more than 'they said so'.

My prediction is...NO, it will be the same line of rhetoric, sidewinding or ridicule and nothing more.
 
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Keachian

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At the very least my interpretations cannot possibly worse than what you lot have to offer.

So are you going to tell us what your interpretations are? This is at least the 10th time I have seen someone ask you what a creationist/your interpretation is, you haven't delivered, please do it will help many people understand where you are coming from.
 
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Astridhere

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None, it would seem.

Carry on without me.

Come back if you finally think of some science or observation to refute me and my hairy erectus ape, that at least has some plausibility behind it.

Otherwise I agree, you are fighting a loosing battle as ridicule and asides will never match the science based interpretations of evolutionary data I have offered. Your objective data better aligns with my subjective interpretations than it does with evolutionary subjective interpretations, that do not align with observation and are non plausible. It takes much intoxication to accept non plausibility.
 
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Astridhere

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So are you going to tell us what your interpretations are? This is at least the 10th time I have seen someone ask you what a creationist/your interpretation is, you haven't delivered, please do it will help many people understand where you are coming from.
Erectus is a non human ape and not becoming human at all. Therefore there are no intermediates which supports my creationist view.

What language would like this in, seeing as you have been unable to get your head around it thus far, regardless of my speaking to it numerous times.


I have posted all the links that demonstrated the huge sexual dimorphism found in erectus and the links to the erectus female pelvis and much, much more.

I should not have to keep reposting them for every Johnny come lately.

Instead....You just shoot off and deny anything I place the erectus fur laded ape theory on,that I have presented many times, and I will demonstrate how ignorant you are of your own science. That is the easiest way around Johny come lately's.

Other than that you had better get peddling in coming up with some plausible explanations to reinterpret recent findings into a plausible scenario with more substantiation behind it than mine.

You are free to admit what you have no idea about current research and I will provide the links again. But don't play with me if you do not know your stuff. You will only waste everyones time at getting to the bottom of this.

However every statement I have made in support of my theory is based on the objective data provided by your very own researchers stripped of the non plausible interpretation of same with a much more plausible scenario to explain it in creationist terms according to my paradigm...eg. erectus the ape with a fur coat that is not human nor becoming human.

Go!
 
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