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...THAT'S where the hurt come from, not from God...from ourselves. When you look at those children or any children with problems or diseases, tell yourself that it is our fault...ALL of ours that that little girl or boy is hurting today...not God's.
God never promises fairness. He allows our sins to shape the world to show us that we are not the answer, HE is. Those children in Africa and children here in the US and children everywhere live in a sinful world...THAT'S where the hurt come from, not from God...from ourselves. When you look at those children or any children with problems or diseases, tell yourself that it is our fault...ALL of ours that that little girl or boy is hurting today...not God's.
I'm sorry to say it but I think that's messed up.
Your god never promises fairness... Hmm, that's not very...fair of him.
How can you blame anyone but god if god created the world and is ultimately responsible for all the suffering?
Its a bit like the logic they have in North Korea. If your grandpa was an enemy of the state you are deemed worthless and sentenced to a lifetime of slave labour. Even if you had done nothing wrong.
I gotta do some work now...deadlines and all. I would like to say this is by far the best conversation I have had with a small group of atheists on here. It is nice to see we can totally disagree and still be civil.
Peace
I find it strange that people who call themelves "free-thinkers" seems so eager to avoid responsibility. These things (in this case, children with terrible diseases) are our problems - we need to sort it out. Heck, we're commanded to sort them out.selfinflikted said:God is allegedly responsible for creating this world and everything/everyone in it. So, how is this not 100% god's fault?
I find it strange that people who call themelves "free-thinkers" seems so eager to avoid responsibility. These things (in this case, children with terrible diseases) are our problems - we need to sort it out. Heck, we're commanded to sort them out.
Jpcedotal however is wrong when he says God does not promise fairness. Life itself may not always be fair, but we are expected to act fairly.
I find it strange that people who call themelves "free-thinkers" seems so eager to avoid responsibility.
These things (in this case, children with terrible diseases) are our problems - we need to sort it out.
I find it strange that people who call themelves "free-thinkers" seems so eager to avoid responsibility. These things (in this case, children with terrible diseases) are our problems - we need to sort it out. Heck, we're commanded to sort them out.
Jpcedotal however is wrong when he says God does not promise fairness. Life itself may not always be fair, but we are expected to act fairly.
The Bible has several quotes telling people to act and judge fairly, especially when it comes to judging the rich and the poor:cupid dave said:?
"fairly?"
How would we define that?
And why would man be required to be fair?
I can see that men must be truthful, and must do things which the Truth about certain circumstances require.
But "fair" is not only subjective but dangerous.
Socialism seems "fair." But it is a slipper slpoe that leads to Failure.
And THAT is the Truth.
God created the earth and turned it over to Adam to run it.God is allegedly responsible for creating this world and everything/everyone in it. So, how is this not 100% god's fault?
I see. In the meantime I suppose you don't have any indications of when the Antichrist is planning to show up? In years, I mean.
By that logic my parents should be totally reponsible for everything I do, even though I'm a mentally competant adult. After all, they chose to create me. I had no say in the matter.Selfinflikted said:I don't believe in god (obviously), so how could I think it's really his fault? My post was clearly working under the hypothetical that god exists. And, if he did, then yes, he would be responsible. No way around that.
God frequently intervened in the Old Testament - the ten plagues of Egypt and the destruction of the Canaanites are probably the most famous. Yet frequently when these topics are brought up, people (usually atheists) use it as proof that God is evil and only cares for His chosen people, the Jews. What kind of God could possibly justify the deaths of so many to help so few?begt said:Imagine that you are god, you are omnipotent and can do whatever you want.
You see people in horrendous pain that have done nothing wrong. Mass murderers like Hitler and Stalin are free to torture and execute millions. Yet you just sit there, doing nothing.
Many cases of suffering are unknown to us so we cannot know for sure how much is our "fault". But still it happens, and this is something "god" approves of?
Makes sense?!!?!
Don't point that finger at me. I don't believe in god (obviously), so how could I think it's really his fault? My post was clearly working under the hypothetical that god exists. And, if he did, then yes, he would be responsible. No way around that.
I do not disagree.
By that logic my parents should be totally reponsible for everything I do, even though I'm a mentally competant adult. After all, they chose to create me. I had no say in the matter.
God frequently intervened in the Old Testament - the ten plagues of Egypt and the destruction of the Canaanites are probably the most famous. Yet frequently when these topics are brought up, people (usually atheists) use it as proof that God is evil and only cares for His chosen people, the Jews. What kind of God could possibly justify the deaths of so many to help so few?
Yet this is exactly what we want. We wanted God to smite wicked people like Stalin and Hitler - and when He doesn't, we argue that He is either indifferent to our suffering or He doesn't exist at all.
So what do we want? Should He intervene or shouldn't He?
Political concepts such as communism and socialism don't promote fairness or equality - instead, they treat their people as though they were identical. For example, in Cuba a medical doctor earns roughly the same salary as a taxi driver (around $20 a month). That's certainly unfair.
What, you want me to give you an example of God intervening without using the Bible?begt said:God intervened in the book yes. But not in the actual world- takes more evidence to believe something like that.
My comparison was simply that when God did intervene to prevent suffering (such as freeing the Hebrews from Egypt), many people will claim that proves He is evil and shows favouritism. When God doesn't intervene - or at least doesn't seem to do so directly - we claim He is either indifferent or doesn't exist.bigt said:I don't think your comparison is good btw. Lieutenant Stauffenberg very nearly killed Hitler, who survived the blast only because of a table made of solid oak (yet all others died that where present in the room). Yet your god thought that was a desirable outcome?
Hitler and Stalin were two deeply evil men, killing them would have done a great service to humanity.
So what about the Biblical posts I quoted, showing that God requires fairness? We can't simply ignore them.cupid said:Youmake my point that unless we can establish the truth, fairness is a subjective and useless term.
...
Unfair to whom, and under what conditiins, and during what particular moment in time are all considerations to be investigated before some revolutionary gang organizes by using the mantra of "Unfair, unfair."
I find it strange that people like you always deny god's responsibility.
Imagine that you are god, you are omnipotent and can do whatever you want.
You see people in horrendous pain that have done nothing wrong. Mass murderers like Hitler and Stalin are free to torture and execute millions. Yet you just sit there, doing nothing.
Many cases of suffering are unknown to us so we cannot know for sure how much is our "fault". But still it happens, and this is something "god" approves of?
Makes sense?!!?!
What, you want me to give you an example of God intervening without using the Bible?
My comparison was simply that when God did intervene to prevent suffering (such as freeing the Hebrews from Egypt), many people will claim that proves He is evil and shows favouritism. When God doesn't intervene - or at least doesn't seem to do so directly - we claim He is either indifferent or doesn't exist.
This schizophrnic attitude is why it's hard to get a stright answer.
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