WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?

[Mercy Shown]

The account of Naaman is such a great foreshadow of the effects of water baptism by God's design. I can only guess that many don't realize that leprosy represents sin. Clearly being submissive to God's command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus results in, what He says it does, sins are washed away. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)

Then we have the account in John 5:1-15 of the man who spent 38 years attempting to wash away his malady until Jesus took it away with 5 simple words. “Take up your bed and walk.”

It is by Faith that we are saved and not circumcision, baptism or any other ceremony or practice. Once we have been saved, in joy and celebration, we publicly commit to Christ by the public act of baptism unless that is impossible.

We also have the story of Zaccheaus, converted by the words of Jesus and that day, before baptism or any other ceremony Jesus pronounced, “today’s salvation has come to this house.“

 

[Mercy Shown]

Paul's explanation of baptism is clear. It is an intregal part of the NT rebirth. It does not in and of itself save but it is essential for salvation.

As to your comments scripture reveals:
Calling on the name of Jesus is accomplished in obedience to water baptism. (Acts 22:16, 2:21, 38; 8:12-18; 10:43, 47-48; 19:1-7; 1 Cor 1:2, 13-15)

No, not exclusively. Baptism was a public acknowledgment of your salvation, not a means to achieve it. Paul made that clear when he said you are saved by faith and not of works. I believe it is a great mistake to teach people that salvation comes through baptism When salvation comes through Jesus Christ.

When we read epistles of Paul, he lays out a litany of behaviors that should be exhibited in a born again Christian, but these are not prerequisites to salvation nor are they works that must be done in order to accomplish salvation, but instead they are a list of fruit that salvation brings. This list acts as a teacher for those who desire to do God’s will.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Every time someone was/is/ healed/saved, they did what if anything was needed as Jesus Says.
A thousand souls with luke e. mia may go without help for doing harmful things instead of doing what is necessary for healing (vit.a). If someone does what is needed, as Jesus Guides, the results are as Jesus Says.

There is a time for being immersed, and a time for just being healed; and a time for not being healed.
A time when multitudes are not saved; a time when some number are saved ...... all as God Says.

The man was not just healed. In Fact, he was not healed until after his sins were forgiven him.

 

[Wansvic]

...

There is no evidence anywhere that says that a man can save themselves by obedience. Obedience comes after salvation because it needs to be empowered by the end dwelling of the Holy Spirit. As the apostle Paul said an un spiritual man cannot even know the things of God let alone obey them.

Please take the time to read the scripture with an open heart. The account actually reveals those who believe in Jesus must obey specific instructions in order to receive remission of sin and receive the Holy Ghost/Spirit. And verse 40 confirms obedience is the key to being saved:

36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ."
37 "Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

It is important to note that those who accepted the above statement of Peter were at that point believers in Jesus, and they asked what they should do.

Peter's answer:
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine... (Acts 2)

 

[Wansvic]

this is merely a interpretation according to your bias. There’s no concrete evidence that would indicate this is factual.

There is no evidence anywhere that says that a man can save themselves by obedience. Obedience comes after salvation because it needs to be empowered by the end dwelling of the Holy Spirit. As the apostle Paul said an un spiritual man cannot even know the things of God let alone obey them.

The idea the points made regarding John 15 are merely an interpretation according to a bias is refuted by the actual scripture:

" I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:1-6)

Again, Jesus said bearing fruit is not possible without staying connected to the vine. And when taken in context, Jesus was explaining a principle concerning those already "in Him."

Scripture reveals being placed in Him is part of the NT rebirth and takes place upon submission to baptism. (Col. 2:10-13, Romans 6:3) Those who have been born again must bear fruit or be cast into the fire.

 

[Doug Brents]

And God did not tell the thief on the cross next to him to be baptized because he couldn’t. God told many people including Abraham that their faith saved them. We recieve Christ and that impowers us to obey. To say otherwise is a tacit denial of Christ’s delclaration that without Him, you can do nothing.

You're not listening. The thief on the cross was promised salvation BEFORE JESUS DIED. Jesus had the power and authority to forgive sin during His life for any demonstration of faith that He chose to accept. So the thief's statement of faith in Jesus was accepted by Jesus as sufficient. But after His death, there is only what is said in Scripture as the demonstration of faith that we must exhibit.

You ignore all of the teaching that clearly states that we are saved by faith and not of works. This means that we are saved prior to baptism and not after it. The Catholics are more honest about this than Protestants who claim the nesscessity of baptism and yet give infants and toddlers a pass. At least they are consistent.

Again, not at all. There is a massive difference between an action to earn something, and an action of faith. For example, if you do work in my yard to earn money to buy a car, then you have earned the car. But if I give you a car and you have to show up at the dealership to pick it up, you did not earn the car (but you still don't have the car or use of it until you show up at the dealer to pick it up). Do you see the difference. I told you that in order to receive the car (that I have already paid for in full), you have to show up at the dealer to take possession of it. That in no way adds to my payment for the car, or indicates that you have in some way earned the car. Nor is there anything in showing up for which you can brag.

No one can obey without Christ. No one can obey to earn salvation. While in we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Legalism and moralism saved nobody. Is your argument, not merely substituting baptism for circumcision?

No. My argument has nothing to do with legalism or moralism, and is not related to circumcision in any way. Baptism is not the "new circumcision". The circumcision without hands (which is done by the Holy Spirit) is done during water baptism (Col 2:11-14), but that has no relation to physical circumcision other than that it is a cutting away of something.

The demoniac, the paraplegic, a crippled man at the pool. Etc

These are all people from before Jesus died, and so they fall in the same category as the thief on the cross.

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes I agree with that, all except the last sentence. Thankfully you and I seem to be able to discuss, and even differ, without, I trust, becoming in any way antagonistic to each other. Thanks!

I appreciate your condor. If you don't mind, why do you agree with everything in that post except the last sentence? The last sentence is the result of everything that came before.

 

[Wansvic]

Then we have the account in John 5:1-15 of the man who spent 38 years attempting to wash away his malady until Jesus took it away with 5 simple words. “Take up your bed and walk.”

It is by Faith that we are saved and not circumcision, baptism or any other ceremony or practice. Once we have been saved, in joy and celebration, we publicly commit to Christ by the public act of baptism unless that is impossible.

We also have the story of Zaccheaus, converted by the words of Jesus and that day, before baptism or any other ceremony Jesus pronounced, “today’s salvation has come to this house.“

The Gospels reveal Jesus' many miracles, while on earth, proving He was who He said He was. They also record His purchasing the Church with His blood. However, it is in Acts that the Church rises into actual existence beginning in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47, Acts 2:4-41)

Acts records the foundational truths and principles in "Word and Deed." And the Epistles define limits of "Doctrine and Practice" for the Church.

Acts is God's design and standard of principles for His Church Today. It was then. It is now. God does not change, as man does. Since I couldn't have expressed it better some of the points are taken from "The Book of Acts" by Kevin J. Conner.

 

[Wansvic]

No, not exclusively. Baptism was a public acknowledgment of your salvation, not a means to achieve it. Paul made that clear when he said you are saved by faith and not of works. I believe it is a great mistake to teach people that salvation comes through baptism When salvation comes through Jesus Christ.

When we read epistles of Paul, he lays out a litany of behaviors that should be exhibited in a born again Christian, but these are not prerequisites to salvation nor are they works that must be done in order to accomplish salvation, but instead they are a list of fruit that salvation brings. This list acts as a teacher for those who desire to do God’s will.

Salvation does come through Jesus Christ. Without His sacrifice water baptism would be meaningless. Those who trust in Jesus believe what He says and obey Him. Obedience to God's command of water baptism is faith in action.

Paul explained upon obedience to the baptism command individuals are buried with Jesus into death and are raised from the dead; this is a picture of rebirth. Those who have been planted together with Jesus shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection. And verse 6 specifically states it is when sins are destroyed. Ananias explained this concept to Paul as revealed in Acts 22:16: 6; "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."


"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Romans 6:3-6)

 

[Mercy Shown]

Salvation does come through Jesus Christ. Without His sacrifice water baptism would be meaningless. Those who trust in Jesus believe what He says and obey Him. Obedience to God's command of water baptism is faith in action.

Not in and of itself. Baptism has no power to save. God saves, not baptism. Many years ago the Church I was attending had a family who's eldest sin, Jerry, got mixed up with drugs and alcohol.

Many years went by we all prayed for him. Then one day he fell very ill and he was taken to the hospital. There, the doctors told him if he didn’t give up his lifestyle he was going to die.

He struggled mightily but began coming back back to church. During one of our revivals, he became very emotional and gave himself to Jesus in an alter call. we all rejoiced and the date for hisbaptism was set.

We were on our way to baptism when we received a call that he’d been in a terrible accident. A drunk driver had run a red light and broadsided his car. He was rushed to the hospital, but never regained consciousness and he died about 48 hours after the accident. I know, that he was saved, regardless of what those who demand baptism for salvation say.

 

[Mercy Shown]

The Gospels reveal Jesus' many miracles, while on earth, proving He was who He said He was. They also record His purchasing the Church with His blood. However, it is in Acts that the Church rises into actual existence beginning in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47, Acts 2:4-41)

The Bible indicates that it was from the foundation of the world.

Paul explained upon obedience to the baptism command individuals are buried with Jesus into death and are raised from the dead; this is a picture of rebirth. Those who have been planted together with Jesus shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection. And verse 6 specifically states it is when sins are destroyed. Ananias explained this concept to Paul as revealed in Acts 22:16: 6; "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

Jesus simply said, “your sins are forgiven.” Paul explained the symbolism of baptism not the saving power if it. Revelation reveals that it is the washing of our robes in the blood of the lamb that cleanses us. Water only cleanse physical dirt off of us.

 

[Mercy Shown]

You're not listening. The thief on the cross was promised salvation BEFORE JESUS DIED. Jesus had the power and authority to forgive sin during His life for any demonstration of faith that He chose to accept. So the thief's statement of faith in Jesus was accepted by Jesus as sufficient. But after His death, there is only what is said in Scripture as the demonstration of faith that we must exhibit.

I am not buying what you are trying to teach. That is different from not listening. I hear your opinion but it is just that. If Jesus had the power and authority to forgive sins while on earth, why do you think He doesn't have it now?

 

[Mercy Shown]

Again, not at all. There is a massive difference between an action to earn something, and an action of faith. For example, if you do work in my yard to earn money to buy a car, then you have earned the car. But if I give you a car and you have to show up at the dealership to pick it up, you did not earn the car (but you still don't have the car or use of it until you show up at the dealer to pick it up). Do you see the difference. I told you that in order to receive the car (that I have already paid for in full), you have to show up at the dealer to take possession of it. That in no way adds to my payment for the car, or indicates that you have in some way earned the car. Nor is there anything in showing up for which you can brag.

Yes, but you must understand that I own the car once you gave it to me and I pick it up because I own it and not in order to own it.

 

[Mercy Shown]

The idea the points made regarding John 15 are merely an interpretation according to a bias is refuted by the actual scripture:

" I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:1-6)

Again, Jesus said bearing fruit is not possible without staying connected to the vine. And when taken in context, Jesus was explaining a principle concerning those already "in Him."

Scripture reveals being placed in Him is part of the NT rebirth and takes place upon submission to baptism. (Col. 2:10-13, Romans 6:3) Those who have been born again must bear fruit or be cast into the fire.

1 Corinthians 2:14 New International Version (NIV)The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

 

[Wansvic]

1 Corinthians 2:14 New International Version (NIV)The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

The scripture you point out is true. Have ye received the Holy Ghost since you believed? Paul's question reveals the Holy Spirit is not received instantaneously upon belief. You may want to read the entire account in Acts 19:1-7.

 

[Doug Brents]

Not in and of itself. Baptism has no power to save. God saves, not baptism.

Have I, or anyone who believes as I do, ever said that it is baptism that does the saving? No. It is Jesus' blood, His sacrifice of His life for us, that is the power that brings about our salvation. But we receive the benefit of this sacrifice during water baptism (as Scripture says).

Many years ago the Church I was attending had a family who's eldest sin, Jerry, got mixed up with drugs and alcohol.

Many years went by we all prayed for him. Then one day he fell very ill and he was taken to the hospital. There, the doctors told him if he didn’t give up his lifestyle he was going to die.

He struggled mightily but began coming back back to church. During one of our revivals, he became very emotional and gave himself to Jesus in an alter call. we all rejoiced and the date for hisbaptism was set.

We were on our way to baptism when we received a call that he’d been in a terrible accident. A drunk driver had run a red light and broadsided his car. He was rushed to the hospital, but never regained consciousness and he died about 48 hours after the accident. I know, that he was saved, regardless of what those who demand baptism for salvation say.

Are you God that you "know that he was saved"? You hope that he was saved. You want to believe that he was saved. But you cannot "know" it for sure, because you are not God. I would like to believe that he was saved as well. But I cannot teach that he was because it is clear that he did not obey the Gospel. Now, if he had been saved before he went off into drugs then it is probable that his is saved because of his repentance and return to God. But if he was never in Christ then he could not "return".

I am not buying what you are trying to teach. That is different from not listening. I hear your opinion but it is just that. If Jesus had the power and authority to forgive sins while on earth, why do you think He doesn't have it now?

He does have the power and authority still (He never lost it), but the path to receiving His forgiveness was set in stone at His death. He could change it at His whim up until He died, but when He died it could not be changed anymore (Heb 9:16-17). What we have, as written in the NT Scripture, is the only way to receive salvation today. And as I have pointed out, ALL of it MUST be true and accurate all at the same time.

Yes, but you must understand that I own the car once you gave it to me and I pick it up because I own it and not in order to own it.

You must take delivery of it to have use of it. If you never take delivery of it, it does you no good. Salvation is there available to every person on Earth. Jesus purchased salvation for everyone. But to benefit from it we must receive it, and it is only received through what God says is Scripture is required to receive it. Rom 10:9-10 says that confession of Jesus as Lord with the mouth is absolutely required to receive salvation. Acts 3:19 says that repentance is absolutely required to receive salvation. Acts 2:28 says that baptism is absolutely required to receive salvation. And all of these must be true and correct at the same time.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Have I, or anyone who believes as I do, ever said that it is baptism that does the saving? No. It is Jesus' blood, His sacrifice of His life for us, that is the power that brings about our salvation. But we receive the benefit of this sacrifice during water baptism (as Scripture says).

The scriptures also say that people can receive it without baptism I’ve given you plenty of examples from the scripture. We’re not talking about ignoring baptism we’re talking about what happens if people cannot be baptized due to circumstances, such as being in an ICU.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Are you God that you "know that he was saved"? You hope that he was saved. You want to believe that he was saved. But you cannot "know" it for sure, because you are not God. I would like to believe that he was saved as well. But I cannot teach that he was because it is clear that he did not obey the Gospel. Now, if he had been saved before he went off into drugs then it is probable that his is saved because of his repentance and return to God. But if he was never in Christ then he could not "return".

this is purely a legalistic viewpoint. That God would deny salvation to a repentant sinner, because they could not be baptized due to circumstances beyond their control. This is extremely legalistic. It is saying that it is God‘s grace plus baptism rather than God‘s grace alone, which is clearly what the Bible teaches.

 

[Wansvic]

The scriptures also say that people can receive it without baptism I’ve given you plenty of examples from the scripture. We’re not talking about ignoring baptism we’re talking about what happens if people cannot be baptized due to circumstances, such as being in an ICU.

God reaches out to mankind throughout their lifetime, it is not His will that anyone should perish. However ignoring HIs prompting until it is too late does not negate the requirements God has set forth.

 

[Mercy Shown]

God reaches out to humanity throughout their lifetime; it is not His will that anyone should perish. However, ignoring HIs prompting until it is too late does not negate the requirements God has set

Baptism is not a requirement for salvation. Baptism is a public speaking declaration of salvation and commitment to Jesus Christ.

We all were saved from the foundation of the earth. I am not trying to convince you, but I would like people to know that God is not an accountant damning people on technicalities. Instead, he is a living, loving Father who can save all who come to Him through Jesus Christ. If you come, He will in no way cast you out, and he will not disqualify you due to a missed ceremony.

All who are saved will be baptized unless it is impossible, but God will and does understand.