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If this were true the Jesus was wrong to say, “Without me, you can do nothing.” That would include obeying. I don’t believe there is a living person on this earth that even knows what God’s true commands are let alone obey them without already being in Christ.
The account of Naaman is such a great foreshadow of the effects of water baptism by God's design. I can only guess that many don't realize that leprosy represents sin. Clearly being submissive to God's command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus results in, what He says it does, sins are washed away. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)
This is simply false. Are we to be dunked 7 times in the Jordan only in order to be baptized? Or do we simply extend the metaphors to satisfy our position but no further.
What Jesus was referring to is revealed in John 15 below. Jesus said bearing fruit is not possible without staying connected to the vine. And when taken in context, Jesus was explaining a principle concerning those already "in Him." Scripture reveals being placed in Him is part of the NT rebirth and takes place upon submission to baptism. (Col. 2:10-13, Romans 6:3) Those who have been born again must bear fruit or be cast into the fire.
Principles relative to the NT water baptism are foreshadowed in numerous accounts in the OT.
The "equivalency" is in the fact that God's gift (healing/forgiveness of sin) is given only upon the faithful completion of the commanded action that God says LEADS TO/RESULTS IN the gift being received.
There are no examples of such; not a single one.
That is not the issue. There is no salvation without obedience to God's commands. Jesus doesn't save everyone, He only saves those who obey Him (Heb 5:9).
Simple, but false, example. Rom 10:14 says that they cannot call on whom they have not believed, and they cannot believe in whom they have not heard, and they cannot hear without a preacher. If they call to God in the desert, then they heard the Word before they went to the desert. And if they heard the word before they went to the desert then they had opportunity to be baptized before they went to the desert. Salvation is not "fire insurance". We do not put off accepting Christ until just before the end, and then holler, "Wait, let me pray to God to save me so that I don't spend eternity in Hell." No, accepting Christ is a life-long commitment of love, obedience, and worship. If we put it off until the end, then we really don't love Him, and He will not save us.
When Jesus had a lame man lowered in front of Him by four friends, what happened?:
Every time someone was/is/ healed/saved, they did what if anything was needed as Jesus Says.
Before I write a proper reply, may I just check what you mean by two phrases you use:
Correct, He did not, but again, this is under the Old Covenant. Jesus had the power and authority to change His requirements for forgiving sin at His whim all the way up until He died. He could accept any actions of faith that He chose to accept, but after He died His will was set and cannot be changed (Heb 9:15ff).
But under the New Covenant, the jailer at Philippi asked, "What must I do to be saved?" The apostles' answer was, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved." "Saved" in biblical terms surely involves forgiveness of sins. It was only later that we read that he and his household, who had believed, were baptized. (I must say it feels unusual to find myself not agreeing with you - but on this point, I am sorry to say I do).
I agree that it is rare for us to disagree. But I believe the reason is that there is a misunderstanding of what "believe" means. "Believe" comes from the Greek word "pistis" which means "faith". This is not an intellectual assent "belief", but an active faith in Jesus. Faith is not just a mental, internal, passive concept. There is no faith if there is no action (James 2:20, 22, 24, 26), because it is our actions that make our faith complete, whole, and effective.
Thank you, that's the best way to put it, yes.
And God did not tell the thief on the cross next to him to be baptized because he couldn’t. God told many people including Abraham that their faith saved them. We recieve Christ and that impowers us to obey. To say otherwise is a tacit denial of Christ’s delclaration that without Him, you can do nothing.
You ignore all of the teaching that clearly states that we are saved by faith and not of works. This means that we are saved prior to baptism and not after it. The Catholics are more honest about this than Protestants who claim the nesscessity of baptism and yet give infants and toddlers a pass. At least they are consistent.
No one can obey without Christ. No one can obey to earn salvation. While in we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Legalism and moralism saved nobody. Is your argument, not merely substituting baptism for circumcision?
The demoniac, the paraplegic, a crippled man at the pool. Etc
Hey, you may feel this way, but there’s no concrete evidence that you are correct. I think you’re substituting baptism for circumcision and making a legalistic argument for salvation.
this is merely a interpretation according to your bias. There’s no concrete evidence that would indicate this is factual.
Yes I agree with that, all except the last sentence. Thankfully you and I seem to be able to discuss, and even differ, without, I trust, becoming in any way antagonistic to each other. Thanks!
I'm in the UK, so I don't know about US Federal laws about faith-healing. I have never been to a "faith healer." I'm stil not sure what "e. mia," and "vit a" mean, though.
