What makes Christianity special?

[stevevw]

There's not been a single time in which you have said "that's out of context" and I failed to explain how it most certainly is in context.

[FONT=&quot]This is all part of taking thing out of context and changing meanings
http://www.christianforums.com/t7821623-21/#post65662261
You are pulling single sentences out and giving it another meaning.
You seem to either take a literal understanding or twist it to something that you have already decided within yourself that is your own personal beliefs.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7821623-19/
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]So these are very big contextual difference.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]I am suggesting there are other conclusions that we can draw from what is written. You say there is no room for any context. http://www.christianforums.com/t7821623-17/
[/FONT][FONT=&amp] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I have been constantly pointing out that you have been taking things out of context in one way or another.
[/FONT]

The text does not agree with your theological beliefs. You say he asked "too much of God," but there is no indication in the text that this is correct. God simply performs the miracle in response to Gideon's test.

[FONT=&quot]Most scholars that I have referenced say the same thing. Gideon lost some faith and asked God for reassurance. For someone who says they have studied the bible at a uni level you dont seem to understand the basic meanings of these stories. What do you think the lesson and purpose is about.
Here are the links to this understanding this. The lessons drawn fro this story are called laying the fleece before God.
Is it acceptable to "lay out a fleece" before God in prayer?
Knowing God’s Will: Is It Okay to “Put Out the Fleece”? | Questions.org[/FONT]

Quote a psychologist who says "lust is like a drug and affects people so that it takes over them and takes control." Name just one psychologist who says this.

[FONT=&quot]Simply stated, lust is the excessive desire for one's own sexual pleasure.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ethics-everyone/201101/the-lost-concept-lust
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Dr. Helen Fisher describes lust as equal to drug addiction--specifically an addiction to amphetamines, as shown by actual brain scans.
Dr. Belisa Vranich: Lust Telepathy: An Unexplored Psychological Phenomenon (Poll)

[/FONT]And furthermore, no, it does not matter what the English term "lust" means since we're not debating a translation, we're discussing a Greek text.[/quote]
I assume this is to do with the bible. Then why does the bible state that lust is a sin.
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Ever desired a woman that is forbidden to you (also known as "not married to you" in Jesus' worldview)? Controlled by the flesh ye are.

[FONT=&quot]It is not a sin to have a natural thought of being attracted to the opposite sex. It is what you do with that thought and where you take it. If you then dwell on it and start to take it to the point of being with that women sexually and then lusting after her. But even feeding into lustful thoughts of no particular women is also a lust sin. The point is the women or the image of a woman becomes an object and not a person to be loved. It is taken beyond love and into a self serving lust for power and pleasure.

[/FONT]

If you looked at a woman with desire, you sinned, chief. Also sin is the same to God (according to the bible), so shall we start calling you Tiger?

[FONT=&quot]The bible is quite specific. If you look at a women with lust. That is a specific woman with lust. Looking at a woman and wanting to have sex with her in your mind. Taking these thoughts and developing them. Taking them from a natural attraction for the opposite sex to specifically desiring to have sex or sexual acts with that woman. There is a big difference. One is a natural general desire that has not been turned into specific sex acts and desires with that women or women in general if you are looking at porn as each woman is an person who is an individual.

But let’s be clear here. Christians do sin sexually and we can and will give into our sexual lusts. But we learn to identify this and give these thoughts over to God and try to fight this temptation. By living in the spirit of God we accept Jesus into our lives and this diminishes the power of sin. We take on a new nature and this nature cannot live with the things of the flesh which are things like lust, envy, immorality and a lack or self control.
Jesus' Attitudes Towards Sex


[/FONT]

 

[PsychoSarah]

0 correlation with reduced crime and religion, and studies have included specific religions. It turns out having a decent math book and good schooling helps people "resist temptation" more than going to church and being devout.

 

[stevevw]

Yes, let's review what you have said:

Gee not only do you take the bible out of context but you also do it with my posts. I had included links to may of these things before and gave support from experts and scholars which you choose to ignore. All you are doing in return is refuting them with your own opinion which is unsupported.
But lets just remind you of some of the things i have posted.

It's understandable to want to beat infants on rocks (it isn't).
Psalms are not to be sung or chanted (that's their entire purpose).

You have no support for what you infer. this is your view and is out of context with the psalm.

The bible is both perfect yet not perfect because it was written by men (illogical).

I'm not sure I want to even bother answering such a silly statement. You are now misquoting me as well as getting things out of context.

That Psalms 137 is referring to the Medes and Persians (it isn't).

[FONT=&quot]
It is referring to the Israelites plight and feelings about being destroyed and taken captive by the Medes and Persians.

[/FONT]

The Holy Spirit speaks to you, but doesn't say anything (must be great conversations).

[FONT=&quot]
I have explained all this before but you are just repeating yourself now. So you dont believe there is more than one way to communicate besides orally. A Christian is also made more sensitive to the things of God. His creation, the meanings of his word (scriptures), the identification of Gods will (why certain choices are more important and related to God than others). Being able to discern things better that are related to God, teachings related to God and being shown Gods nature in many other ways with all the senses of your body. We have many senses in case you didn't know that can communicate to us different things going on in our lives. God uses all of them.

[/FONT]

God can't be tested (Gideon did without judgement).
Gideon was wrong to test God (bible doesn't say that).

So wait a minute. Your saying the bible doesn't say that Gideon was wrong to test God yet he did. But at the same time you are saying he did test God without Judgement. So your saying Gideon was wrong for testing God but you also say the bible doesn't say that he was wrong for testing God. You have said it yourself which shows you understood the story better than you thought. Gideon knew he was wrong because he said to God dont be angry for asking you a 2nd time to do the experiment with the fleece. God allowed it not because he was being tested as to whether he was God and had powers. Gideon already knew who God was and that he was great as he had seen the angel of God and God was talking to him. God allowed it because he wanted Gideon to get over his lack of faith and go and do the job he had in store for him.

God doesn't do signs and wonders like a magician (he did for Elijah).

[FONT=&quot]All blown out of context as I have already shown. Refer back to previous posts that had supported links that you have chosen to ignore yet don’t place any support for what you say apart from your own opinion.

[/FONT]

When Jesus said he didn't come to bring peace, he meant the opposite (illogical).

[FONT=&quot]I have already shown supported links for this. It is common knowledge and most scholars agree. You just choose not to believe them because you have already decided that you want to make out God and Jesus are hateful and psychopaths. But heres the link again in case you missed it.
What did Jesus mean by coming to bring a sword in Matthew 10:34-36?
Heres another one in case you think I am choosing my supports. But just about all links say the same thing.
At first glance it indeed appears that Jesus encourages violence and calls his disciples to practice it, presumably righteous violence. But appearances can be deceiving. A text without a context often becomes a pretext, as the old saying goes. Once this verse is read in its historical and literary contexts, the meaning will change.
A Brief Explanation of the Sword in Matthew 10:34

[/FONT]

You are no longer controlled by the flesh, yet you desire women (illogical).

[FONT=&quot]
The flesh according to the bible is completely different to our natural desires to be attracted to the opposite sex or to have a need to eat and have shelter.
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Gal. 5:16-21, KJV).

Gal. 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long suffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
The Works Of The Flesh Vs. The Fruit Of The Spirit | Spirit Filled Christian Living

[/FONT]

The gospels recording Jesus' last words all differently is just perspective (it's objectively inaccurate).

[FONT=&quot]We are looking back on something with limited information. We can only try to imagine what was happening. But certainly we can’t draw any definite conclusions to what really happened. Yet you have decided what happened and have deemed what was written as guilty despite the lack of evidence to be conclusive and without a doubt like in any court room. This only shows you prejudged views that the bible, God and Christ are all false in every way.

I have shown you another possibility which was the perspectives of each writer. One being near Christ with Mary and being able to hear things that others didn't. One being a little further away and hearing what he did and others are even further away again. This is plausible but still not proven. But you only wish to consider one view point, yours.

[/FONT]

You know what's right because you have thirty years to draw on (everybody with over 30 years experience, must therefore be right).

[FONT=&quot]No I didn't say this. But certainly someone with a longer history and experience can have more knowledge but more important more wisdom. Therefore some respect should be given.

[/FONT]

God holds the celestial bodies in place (no, gravity does).

[FONT=&quot]Umm I didn't say this either. What I was referring to was not God actually holding the celestial bodies and there were not laws of physics. I was inferring that in God are all these laws because he created everything. These laws just didn't happen out of thin air. We don’t know what the role these laws play in the scheme of things. Scientists have come up with some pretty crazy ideas to try and explain what they are seeing. Gravity maybe completely misunderstood when it comes to the bigger picture.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But in saying this I will add a hypothesis I have read on this site about intelligent falling which I find quite interesting. So this isn't just from me but is believed by others as well.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7799540[/FONT]

El Shaddai means "All-Sufficient One" (it doesn't, it means El of the Mountain).

I have given several links for support that this is not the case. Here are some more and they all cant be wrong.
The most simple translation is ’God’ (’el&#8217, THE ALL-MIGHTY ONE (’shadday&#8217, to clearly differentiate the One true God from other ’gods’, as ’el’ was a common term for any god at that time, age and area.
El-Shaddai.org
El Shaddai is conventionally translated as God Almighty
El Shaddai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
El is the generic name for god
Shaddai is often translated as “God Almighty
https://www.knowingthebible.net/the-meaning-of-el-shaddai
Shall we stop there?

That’s up to you. I enjoy the banter.

 

[stevevw]

0 correlation with reduced crime and religion, and studies have included specific religions. It turns out having a decent math book and good schooling helps people "resist temptation" more than going to church and being devout.

Even though i dont think its a good way to judge if this is the case there is some data that says the opposite. It does make sense if you are going to church or belong to a organization that is constantly promoting not to do bad things that it would rub off a bit. Thats the whole idea of religion to try and make a person do the right thing according to God. Every day and every week they will have it drummed into them dont do this and dont do that. But I think more importantly it is the transformation of a person for a christian and living by the spirit of God and according to the teachings of Christ. So its not just a case of doing the right thing and trying to keep to it but becoming a different person whose nature is transformed.

A survey from Manchester University found a direct correlation between higher visits to religious places and lower crime figures, especially in relation to shoplifting, drug use and music piracy.

Read more: How religion cuts crime: Church-goers are less likely to shoplift, take drugs and download music illegally | Mail Online


Byron R. Johnson, a professor at Baylor University in Waco, Texas, compiled a survey of every study between 1944 and 2010 that measured the possible effect of religion on crime. He found 273 such studies. As he reports in “More God, Less Crime,” even though their authors used different methods and assessed different groups of people, 90% of these studies found that more religiosity resulted in less crime. Only 2% found that religion produced more crime. (The remaining 8% found no relationship either way.)
Does this prove that religion reduces crime? Not precisely, for these are all quasi-experimental studies. - See more at: http://churchformen.com/discipling-men/does-more-god-mean-less-crime/#sthash.YNxmwW3X.dpuf

The location of the university is a bit of a worry though.(Waco)

But I am sure there will be other supports that will show something different and even the opposite.


​

 

[PsychoSarah]

Unfortunately, those sorts of studies don't exactly cover the same thing as mine. I said being religious and devout doesn't reduce crime, not church attendance (which btw, many atheists and people of other faiths like to frequent). You can be devout without attending church. Yes, bonding with the community does help with a lot of stuff. It isn't really the religion, we see similar stuff with AA meetings and other social gatherings of people who share common ground.

 

[stevevw]

Unfortunately, those sorts of studies don't exactly cover the same thing as mine. I said being religious and devout doesn't reduce crime, not church attendance (which btw, many atheists and people of other faiths like to frequent). You can be devout without attending church. Yes, bonding with the community does help with a lot of stuff. It isn't really the religion, we see similar stuff with AA meetings and other social gatherings of people who share common ground.

Fair enough. The thing about AA is that they rely on a higher power to help them recover. Normally this is a God of a persons own choice. Sometimes its the AA meetings themselves. But there is definitely a spiritual aspect to the 12 steps. I think step 3 says Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.Step 5 and 6 are 5)Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. 6) Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.Steps 11 and 12 are similar. 11) Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out. 12) Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
So its pretty spiritual and is actually a good way to live life anyway. The other thing is that at meeting you will have some who are still struggling with addiction so they will still be drinking and doing all sorts of stuff. So even though you will have those who have got their act together at the same time you will have those who are off the rails at the same meetings and groups. But AA is their medicine and if they dont do it its more than just being right or wrong, its a matter of life and death as well.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I said social gatherings, AA is just one of many examples. Many of which aren't religiously inclined.

 

[stevevw]

I said social gatherings, AA is just one of many examples. Many of which aren't religiously inclined.

Fair enough, when people get together they will be aware of their behavior and how they come across to others. Maybe this is all part of acceptance by others and fitting into a group and society as a whole. They will gauge their behavior by the reactions of others. They can form close friendships and people can find out things about each other through sharing. There are unwritten codes of conduct like manners and generally being nice that are taken on by groups which everyone will be aware of and try to live by. There are also specific laws and standards which people have to live by to keep order and the safety of others.

But i do think these special organizations that are geared towards helping people which include religion, AA and any other self improvement activities do help. They focus on trying to be a better person and help people live a better life. I'm not saying they are better than other groups or other people in general. But they do take time out to focus on things like becoming aware of your wrong doing and trying to become better at living in general. Its either in their mission statements or principles for living. You could say they are in the business of life and becoming a better person for one reason or another.

 

[South Bound]

If Christianity is the one true religion of the one true God, and the perfect philosophy by which to lead one's life; then it should certainly contain a uniqueness that could not be found in other religions or a secular view of the universe.

Can anyone name one moral precept, ethical statement, principle, or value that is not present in any other religion or secular worldview?

Is there anything that Christians do that non-Christians do not do that makes them a more moral individual?

Even more specifically, is Jesus credited with creating any moral precept that was not already thought to be important for humanity?

First of all, who says Christianity is "the perfect philosophy by which to lead one's life"?

Second, if God is transcendent, then why would His truth be limited to one area?

Third, there is no such thing as a "more moral individual". We are all equally immoral.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

If Christianity is the one true religion of the one true God, and the perfect philosophy by which to lead one's life; then it should certainly contain a uniqueness that could not be found in other religions or a secular view of the universe.

Can anyone name one moral precept, ethical statement, principle, or value that is not present in any other religion or secular worldview?

Is there anything that Christians do that non-Christians do not do that makes them a more moral individual?

Even more specifically, is Jesus credited with creating any moral precept that was not already thought to be important for humanity?

1. The very Creator of the Universe choosing to become a Human Body so he could offer his earthly life up for us in THE most heinous form of capital punishment so we could be reconciled to him by having all sin removed from our account. You wont find that in any other world religion.

2. The resurrection of Christ who claimed and proved to be that Creator and which is historically verifiable from Christian and non Christian sources in the same generation of the event taking place. No other Religious Leader has come close to doing such a miracle. In fact, no other Leader has done ANY miracle.

3. Yes, true genuine Born Again Christians exhibit more noble behavior , ethics, morals than Atheists according to independent scientific Studies conducted by secular Sources including Universities in the USA and Canada, etc.... Go to this link to see the stark difference between how Atheists view themselves and...for which Group of People are least trusted according to unbiased reported Polls : http://www.christianforums.com/t7805623/

4. No other Religion or secular philosophy has people getting to heaven based solely on ANOTHERS merits and not their own . All other religions strive toward personal works,deeds, etc... in hoping they will become good enough to one day stand before The holy Creator of us all. Christianity is based on solely faith in what Jesus did, and not what we can offer up to help our sin cause.

5. No other Religion has as much historical and scientific evidences for credibility, than the Old Testament and New Testament of the Bible . Bar none.

 

[PsychoSarah]

1. The very Creator of the Universe choosing to become a Human Body so he could offer his earthly life up for us in THE most heinous form of capital punishment so we could be reconciled to him by having all sin removed from our account. You wont find that in any other world religion.

2. The resurrection of Christ who claimed and proved to be that Creator and which is historically verifiable from Christian and non Christian sources in the same generation of the event taking place. No other Religious Leader has come close to doing such a miracle. In fact, no other Leader has done ANY miracle.

3. Yes, true genuine Born Again Christians exhibit more noble behavior , ethics, morals than Atheists according to independent scientific Studies conducted by secular Sources including Universities in the USA and Canada, etc.... Go to this link to see the stark difference between how Atheists view themselves and...for which Group of People are least trusted according to unbiased reported Polls :

4. No other Religion or secular philosophy has people getting to heaven based solely on ANOTHERS merits and not their own . All other religions strive toward personal works,deeds, etc... in hoping they will become good enough to one day stand before The holy Creator of us all. Christianity is based on solely faith in what Jesus did, and not what we can offer up to help our sin cause.

5. No other Religion has as much historical and scientific evidences for credibility, than the Old Testament and New Testament of the Bible . Bar none.

1. Egyptian god matches up really closely.

2. Actually, not historically verifiable.

3. Then explain why atheists are at a lower percentage in prison populations than their population in the country would suggest, and why it has been shown time and time again that religion doesn't decrease crime rates in an area at all. Seriously, having good math books reduces crime more than having the "good book" does.

4. How is this a plus for Christianity? Wouldn't it be better for society for religion to require good actions, rather than suggesting that crimes such as murder and rape can be forgiven so long as you believe?

5. Given the amount of plagerism in the Old Testament and New Testament, and that technically the Koran has more historical evidence as we can actually trace the family tree of the Prophet Muhammad and prove it was just one individual. Muhammad's actions and life have more historical support than those of Jesus. I think this point has been shown wrong also.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

1. Egyptian god matches up really closely.

2. Actually, not historically verifiable.

3. Then explain why atheists are at a lower percentage in prison populations than their population in the country would suggest, and why it has been shown time and time again that religion doesn't decrease crime rates in an area at all. Seriously, having good math books reduces crime more than having the "good book" does.

4. How is this a plus for Christianity? Wouldn't it be better for society for religion to require good actions, rather than suggesting that crimes such as murder and rape can be forgiven so long as you believe?

5. Given the amount of plagerism in the Old Testament and New Testament, and that technically the Koran has more historical evidence as we can actually trace the family tree of the Prophet Muhammad and prove it was just one individual. Muhammad's actions and life have more historical support than those of Jesus. I think this point has been shown wrong also.

1. Not even close.

2. You've not looked into the evidence, nor do u wish to most likely. Its easier to say theres no evidence to maintain ones autonomy in having authority over ones life.

3. a. Atheistic ideologies is what puts people in prison : No absolute moral laws to live by...everything is permissible aka : moral relativism.

3.b. The Christian Faith isn't about a religion ; Christ never came to start a new religion or Institution -- he came to give us a vital personal relationship with the Creator if we would choose to want it. And the method he chose was his life given on a cross. No greater love. There is no power in atheism to change lives...but there is when one becomes a Christian and gets Gods power infused into his Soul. That's how the hardest of criminals have had a heart change to become loving, non hating, caring, compassion people whereas before, they were despicable examples. What has atheism given us for a better world, higher morals, true purpose and meaning to life ?? All its done is bring moral devastation to nations thru its ideologies and concepts the alienating God.

4. You don't know the difference between religion and personal relationship thru subsequent change in a person, do you ? Religion is powerless to change the Soul...best that religion can do is to offer suggested ways to be moral .

5. Mohammed failed miserably in terms of how he lived his life. He was immoral, corrupt, and set a bad example. Can u find anything wrong in Jesus ? If you looked into the real historical evidence, you will find the N.T. that describes Jesus' life, first hand, has far more historical evidence from Christian and non CHristian historians as well as complimenting archeological finds . We even have the very burial cloth of Christ with his scortched image on it that has now been verified to have come from Jerusulem and going back to the time of Christ -- that's the latest update on the Shroud. And no..its not a painting, a forgery, or hoax ------------ its 3-D , its blood type is AB on all the wounds on the cloth, and its got pollen found only around Jerusulem and no where else.


What are you going to do if you alienate yourself from God all your life, then you go into your pre-arranged Meeting with God right after you die physically ? What will your game plan be ? Don't go and blow your eternity all for the sake of wanting to do this short earthly life your way -- instead, do what my signature illustrates to do, then you can have joy and real hope .

 

[PsychoSarah]

1. Not even close.

2. You've not looked into the evidence, nor do u wish to most likely. Its easier to say theres no evidence to maintain ones autonomy in having authority over ones life.

3. a. Atheistic ideologies is what puts people in prison : No absolute moral laws to live by...everything is permissible aka : moral relativism.

3.b. The Christian Faith isn't about a religion ; Christ never came to start a new religion or Institution -- he came to give us a vital personal relationship with the Creator if we would choose to want it. And the method he chose was his life given on a cross. No greater love. There is no power in atheism to change lives...but there is when one becomes a Christian and gets Gods power infused into his Soul. That's how the hardest of criminals have had a heart change to become loving, non hating, caring, compassion people whereas before, they were despicable examples. What has atheism given us for a better world, higher morals, true purpose and meaning to life ?? All its done is bring moral devastation to nations thru its ideologies and concepts the alienating God.

4. You don't know the difference between religion and personal relationship thru subsequent change in a person, do you ? Religion is powerless to change the Soul...best that religion can do is to offer suggested ways to be moral .

5. Mohammed failed miserably in terms of how he lived his life. He was immoral, corrupt, and set a bad example. Can u find anything wrong in Jesus ? If you looked into the real historical evidence, you will find the N.T. that describes Jesus' life, first hand, has far more historical evidence from Christian and non CHristian historians as well as complimenting archeological finds . We even have the very burial cloth of Christ with his scortched image on it that has now been verified to have come from Jerusulem and going back to the time of Christ -- that's the latest update on the Shroud. And no..its not a painting, a forgery, or hoax ------------ its 3-D , its blood type is AB on all the wounds on the cloth, and its got pollen found only around Jerusulem and no where else.


What are you going to do if you alienate yourself from God all your life, then you go into your pre-arranged Meeting with God right after you die physically ? What will your game plan be ? Don't go and blow your eternity all for the sake of wanting to do this short earthly life your way -- instead, do what my signature illustrates to do, then you can have joy and real hope .

1. Show any evidence outside of the bible for the resurrection of Jesus

2. Look up Horus. Born of a virgin, death threats soon after birth, son of a god, only son of a god. Dies and is resurrected. List of other Christ like figures
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/

3. When you view this life as all we have, you value it more, why waste it with a prison sentence, why hurt people? I am punished for my bad deeds with a wasted, hated life, it takes away all I have. In contrast, helping others makes my life fulfilling and worthwhile.

4. Whether you like it or not, Christianity is a religion, and while feeling spiritually fulfilled might be good for people, Christianity isn't the only means by which to attain that.

5. The shroud has actually been proven to be a hoax, the cloth is too modern, sorry for the update, I found that out fairly recently too. Prior to this, the cloth actually wasn't allowed to be closely examined scientifically, so this AB blood type and whatnot is questionable. Muhammad was a real person, with flaws. That makes his existence far more believe able than that of what the bible describes Jesus to be. But the point wasn't who was the better person, but who was historically best supported, and there is more historical documentation for Muhammad than Jesus.

 

[paul becke]

An ofter heard answer to such a question:
"Christianity is the only faith where God reaches out to humans instead of vice versa. In Christianity, you don't have to do anything to be saved, God saves you."

...usually followed by the list of thing to do in order to be saved.

The very genial Christian apologist, John Lennox, a professor of mathematics at Oxford University, pointed out that it is not like an examination, on the basis of which you are assessed, and accepted or rejected on the basis of your marks.

It would have been better, I felt, if he had said, rather, that, despite the fiercely absolute terms in which Jesus preached, for example, that we 'must be perfect, even as (our) heavenly Father is perfect', we shall never be able to actually BE perfect.

Nevertheless Professor Lennox made a fascinating and highly amusing analogy with his criteria for marrying his wife. He didn't set her a cooking examination or test her wifely aptitudes in other ways. He felt he knew enough about her to take her on trust, and she, to take him on trust. If he had set her such tests, she would have given him short shrift!

And he pointed out that God is a person, and his relationship with us is as highly personal as ours is with those we love. It's about love and trust; not a taskmaster and a slave.

God is Irrelevant: Discuss by John Lennox (Official Recording) - YouTube

The particularly relevant part, near the end of his talk, is at approximately 1.34.

 

[bhsmte]

The very genial Christian apologist, John Lennox, a professor of mathematics at Oxford University, pointed out that it is not like an examination, on the basis of which you are assessed, and accepted or rejected on the basis of your marks.

It would have been better, I felt, if he had said, rather, that, despite the fiercely absolute terms in which Jesus preached, for example, that we 'must be perfect, even as (our) heavenly Father is perfect', we shall never be able to actually BE perfect.

Nevertheless Professor Lennox made a fascinating and highly amusing analogy with his criteria for marrying his wife. He didn't set her a cooking examination or test her wifely aptitudes in other ways. He felt he knew enough about her to take her on trust, and she, to take him on trust. If he had set her such tests, she would have given him short shrift!

And he pointed out that God is a person, and his relationship with us is as highly personal as ours is with those we love. It's about love and trust; not a taskmaster and a menial.

God is Irrelevant: Discuss by John Lennox (Official Recording) - YouTube

The particularly relevant part, near the end of his talk, is at approximately 1.34.

And how does Lennox know this? It would appear he is just guessing, as everyone else does when they try to explain God and what he wants.

 

[FireDragon76]

I would not bring up incarceration rates as proof or disproof of a religion's claims, at least not in the US. The US is notorious for having an unjust penal system- we have 1/4 the worlds prisoners, more than Russia even.

My guess is that there are a lot of Christians in jail because they get in jail and reality starts to hit them and they want to turn their life around. There are many, many prison ministries that try to help prisoners. Christianity in this context is primarily a message about hope and love- in some cases this is the first time anybody has sincerely told them they were valuable or loved.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I would not bring up incarceration rates as proof or disproof of a religion's claims, at least not in the US. The US is notorious for having an unjust penal system- we have 1/4 the worlds prisoners, more than Russia even.

My guess is that there are a lot of Christians in jail because they get in jail and reality starts to hit them and they want to turn their life around. There are many, many prison ministries that try to help prisoners. Christianity in this context is primarily a message about hope and love- in some cases this is the first time anybody has sincerely told them they were valuable or loved.

Don't forget many gangs and other criminal organizations express religion as a requirement for membership.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

If Christianity is the one true religion of the one true God, and the perfect philosophy by which to lead one's life; then it should certainly contain a uniqueness that could not be found in other religions or a secular view of the universe.

Can anyone name one moral precept, ethical statement, principle, or value that is not present in any other religion or secular worldview?

Is there anything that Christians do that non-Christians do not do that makes them a more moral individual?

Even more specifically, is Jesus credited with creating any moral precept that was not already thought to be important for humanity?

Christianity offers an understanding of spiritual things that is unique. When we wonder about the evil in this world, and why God does nothing about the evil in this world, Christianity teaches us that God comes down and suffers that evil along with us. All they way to His death on the cross.

It's not what I would choose, if I were making up the way things are. I would have God removing evil. That God allows so much evil is the well known "problem of evil" for us Theists.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Christianity offers an understanding of spiritual things that is unique. When we wonder about the evil in this world, and why God does nothing about the evil in this world, Christianity teaches us that God comes down and suffers that evil along with us. All they way to His death on the cross.

It's not what I would choose, if I were making up the way things are. I would have God removing evil. That God allows so much evil is the well known "problem of evil" for us Theists.

You act as if gods in other religions don't experience human suffering, or worse suffering. Norse gods, such as Tyr (I might have spelled that wrong) would suffer permanent bodily harm to help humanity (this god lost one of his hands to a giant wolf beast in order to seal it away so it couldn't terrorize people anymore). And they do this despite knowing in the end they shall fail and the world will end in ice and fire. Norse gods can die, and they don't come back, they don't go anywhere, they are gone. Now remind me how much the Christian god can relate to human suffering.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

You act as if gods in other religions don't experience human suffering, or worse suffering. Norse gods, such as Tyr (I might have spelled that wrong) would suffer permanent bodily harm to help humanity (this god lost one of his hands to a giant wolf beast in order to seal it away so it couldn't terrorize people anymore). And they do this despite knowing in the end they shall fail and the world will end in ice and fire. Norse gods can die, and they don't come back, they don't go anywhere, they are gone. Now remind me how much the Christian god can relate to human suffering.

Hmmm . . . you have a point there, I'd wasn't remembering that legend.

Now what you are saying about all the various ideas of Christianity being found in other religions is interesting, and possibly completely true, but . . . there is the little question about validity.

Did God actually become incarnate in the Jesus we know from the gospels? If He did, that makes Christianity special apart from other religions even if the ideas in Christianity are found elsewhere.