SLStrohkirch said:
Christ does not rule us in that he forces us to follow him if we dont WANT to. The key word is WANT which is a word of the WILL. Our WILL must be suppressed by the Holy Spirit if we are to be in Christ and remain in him so if we allow our will to have free reign Christ will not stop us from leaving him (rejection).
But you are ignoring that
he said he would lose none of all that is given him.
You are now saying he will lose some of all that is given him? When I say "lose", I mean that some that are given him will become "unsaved" and be sent to the Lake of Fire with the unbeliever. That contradicts the Lord's words if that is what you are saying.
Now, if you are saying that not all who come to him will remain faithful to God's plan for their lives, and that he keeps them saved by the power of his justice having been fulfilled on the Cross for all sins? Fine.
But, Follower has been telling us that if someone who is saved. Been given to Christ by the Father. That if they do certain things wrong? That Jesus will lose some of all he was given. That calls Jesus a liar.
John 6:37-40 niv
"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
If you add to that....
Romans 8:38-39
"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
If we could walk away from our salvation? That would have to mean that we are not a part of this creation. For nothing in creation can do that!
You were not a part of this creation? The Bible is making it clear that we can not lose our salvation from the Lake of Fire. What we need to interpret correctly, is that we can lose something very important.
We can lose out on the opportunity we have been given (after salvation) of glorifying Christ in our body. There are crowns and rewards for this to be given. Those we can lose! We are told we can lose them.
And, if we do? We will be facing
destruction and fire that the Bible speaks of. But, this destruction and fire is not speaking of the Lake of Fire. Those who think we can lose our salvation have blurred the distinction between the two, and think the believer can end up being destroyed in the Lake of Fire.
1 Corinthians 3:11-15 niv
"For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames."
I keep asking, and get no straight answer. How can one be at a total loss of rewards? This one did nothing correctly, other than believe in Christ. And, it says that he is yet saved?
He did nothing to please God? How is it that this one does not lose his salvation? But, others they claim, do?
What more did he need to do to be sent to the Lake of Fire? These folks claim a believer will go if he fails to please God by rejecting God's will for their lives.
They fail to see their own contradictions in their own logic. And, on top of that, continue as if the words in these passages have no meaning what so ever, as far as what they do convey to the normal reader? I ask. Is there really a debate going on here? Or, a matter of deafness and blindness which can not see nor hear what it says? Can you debate another who refuses to acknowledge what a passage says? Ignores it? And then, moves on with their premise as if nothing was said? Is that revealing sound perspicacity?
No wonder these ones end up getting flammed! I just came out of one thread that was locked, due to one who is now trying his wares all over again in this thread. He does nothing but ignore and push.
Its like a driver who sits at a green light and ignores it. Then complains when everyone behind him is honking their horns and getting angry. He then tries to tell the officer that these folks are disturbing the peace. Its not debate. Its a method of manipulating others by willfully ignoring the light color, and enjoying the pain they try to inflict on the law abiding citizen.
John 3:18 niv
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."
Its believing in his name that saves us. Its following after his plan and will after we are saved, that reaps God's grace and rewards. We can lose our rewards, but we can not lose what we have already done! That is, believing in his name.
The light is Green..... GeneZ
