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What justification does this atheist have and what is the truth?

alexpan

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I saw an atheist article and in it they said:
"An omnibenevolent God would not absent himself/herself in ways that cause or allow suffering.
Furthermore, if some people can experience a "lack of God", then God is clearly not omnipresent."
I know that it isn't a reasonable argument but what would be a sensible answer to this "problem"?
 

singpeace

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I saw an atheist article and in it they said:
"An omnibenevolent God would not absent himself/herself in ways that cause or allow suffering.
Furthermore, if some people can experience a "lack of God", then God is clearly not omnipresent."
I know that it isn't a reasonable argument but what would be a sensible answer to this "problem"?



"An omnibenevolent God would not absent himself/herself in ways that cause or allow suffering.

First of all, it is possible that God has reasons for allowing evil to exist that we simply cannot understand. In this the Christian can have confidence in God knowing that His ways are above our ways (Isaiah 55:8-9). As the Bible says, the just shall live by faith (Hab. 2:4).

Second, God may be letting evil run its course in order to prove that evil is malignant and that suffering, which is the unfortunate product of evil, is further proof that anything contrary to God’s will is bad, harmful, painful, and leads to death.

God gave Adam dominion over the world (Gen. 1:28). When he rebelled against God, he set in motion an entire series of events and changed the very nature of man and creation. Both were affected by sin. Creation was no longer a paradise, but bore thorns and thistles (Gen. 3:17-18; Rom. 8:22). People became sinful (Rom. 5:12; Eph. 2:3), who were haters of God (Rom. 3:9-12), etc. The only conclusion to such a situation is death. Jesus said, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened" (Matt. 24:22).

Sin is rebellion against God and His created order, but God has not left us alone in this fallen world. He continued to enter this world, pointing us to Himself, to truth, to morality, purity, and love. He used the evil of the world (liars, perjurers, the envious, etc.), to bring His Son to the cross so that we might have the opportunity to obtain eternal life. In this, God has not stepped away from fallen creation, but has stepped into it by becoming Jesus. God works within the fallen world to effect change and He uses fallen people to accomplish His will. In this, He is proving His sovereignty over evil, suffering, and rebellious people, proving that sin and evil are utterly futile, and that He is worthy of honor and glory.

A third possible reason that God is letting evil occur is so that on the day of judgment, the condemned will have no right to say that their sentence is unjust. God is not stopping people from exercising their free will. Think about this: If someone said that God should stop evil and suffering, then should God then stop all evil and suffering? If God only stopped some of it, then we would still be asking the same question of why it exists.

So, if we want God to stop evil and suffering, then He must stop all of it. We have no problem with this when it means stopping a catastrophe, or a murder, or a rape. But what about when someone thinks of something evil? Evil is destructive whether it is acted out or not. Hatred and bigotry in someone’s heart is wrong. If it is wrong, and if God is to stop all evil, then He must stop that person from thinking his own thoughts. To do that, God must remove his freedom of thought. Furthermore, which person on the earth has not thought something evil? God would be required, then, to stop all people from exercising their free will. This is something God has chosen not to do. Therefore, we could say that one of the reasons that God permits evil and suffering is because of man’s free will.



Furthermore, if some people can experience a "lack of God", then God is clearly not omnipresent."


This is a common occurrence among Christians. Often times because of our sin, we don't feel the strong presence of the Lord that we may have had in the past. But on the other hand, it could be that God is purposely being distant from us in order to refine our faith. This may sound odd, but sometimes God will withdraw that "feeling" of his presence in order to have us focus on the real issues of prayer, including our faith in him, rather than praying because we "feel" his presence. After all, what is faith based on -- Christ and his resurrection or a feeling we get in prayer?

We should not trust our feelings, or the lack of feelings, when it comes to prayer. We pray according to the word of God, by faith, with the confident expectation that the Lord always hears us. And even though we may not always feel his presence, we must remember not to base our prayer life upon feelings.
 
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KCfromNC

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I saw an atheist article and in it they said:
"An omnibenevolent God would not absent himself/herself in ways that cause or allow suffering.
Furthermore, if some people can experience a "lack of God", then God is clearly not omnipresent."
I know that it isn't a reasonable argument but what would be a sensible answer to this "problem"?

Making God less than all-powerful clears it up right away.
 
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Eudaimonist

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I saw an atheist article and in it they said:
"An omnibenevolent God would not absent himself/herself in ways that cause or allow suffering.

The usual way to counter this is to suggest that an omnibenevolent God has absented himself because suffering serves some greater good, such as salvation and eternal happiness in an afterlife. Suggest that some suffering in this life is a small price to pay for this.

Furthermore, if some people can experience a "lack of God", then God is clearly not omnipresent."

This one is easy to counter. Just say that a blind man in a lighted room might not experience light, but that doesn't mean that light isn't actually present.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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keith99

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The usual way to counter this is to suggest that an omnibenevolent God has absented himself because suffering serves some greater good, such as salvation and eternal happiness in an afterlife. Suggest that some suffering in this life is a small price to pay for this.



This one is easy to counter. Just say that a blind man in a lighted room might not experience light, but that doesn't mean that light isn't actually present.


eudaimonia,

Mark

And Omnibenevolent is also easy, as long as one does not add amnipotent.

Your expalination for omnibenevolent fails if added to omnipotent as most often claimed sinece an omnipotnet God could prevent suffering and provide for salvation.
 
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Ken-1122

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I saw an atheist article and in it they said:
"An omnibenevolent God would not absent himself/herself in ways that cause or allow suffering.
I think this makes sense in the same way a father who absents himself from his children and allows them to suffer harm is neglectful. You can't be neglectful and omnibelenevolent at the same time.
Furthermore, if some people can experience a "lack of God", then God is clearly not omnipresent."
I know that it isn't a reasonable argument but what would be a sensible answer to this "problem"?
I think what he is saying, is if God is omnipresent, that means he must exist within each of us as well. So if a person experiences a lack of God; if God does not exist within this person that would mean God is not omnipresent.

Ken
 
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Going Merry

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Well God has more than one characteristic. "Love" is just one facet though that is what he works through. If someone were to act against this then he would act against you. He does not stand with everyone is evident. His omni-benevolent love will cause a lot of people to cringe when he uses "love" against people. Which would be called justice.

Evil in the bible is translated as anguish, despair, etc. And it is pretty obvious what good would be then. If you sow in evil, you will reap in evil.

Experiencing a lack of God means you have not found God. Everyone is born a sinner and people are by default doing things God hates. But he shows his grace to those who he will. Maybe it would be better to appeal to his mercy then. :wave:
 
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Going Merry

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This statement is completely incomprehensible to me. I have a small son. I'd never use love against him.

God has made his children sick in some passages to spare them from doing evil. To God, doing evil is very serious. Perhaps it is because practicing it means being separated from Him? :)
 
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Paradoxum

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First of all, it is possible that God has reasons for allowing evil to exist that we simply cannot understand. In this the Christian can have confidence in God knowing that His ways are above our ways (Isaiah 55:8-9). As the Bible says, the just shall live by faith (Hab. 2:4).

It is possible, but it doesn't really answer the problem.

Second, God may be letting evil run its course in order to prove that evil is malignant and that suffering, which is the unfortunate product of evil, is further proof that anything contrary to God’s will is bad, harmful, painful, and leads to death.

Well, there is also natural suffering. Some types of suffering are hideous and unnecessary, but still they exist. This doesn't really teach anyone anything, it just tortures whatever poor creature happens to be unlucky.

If you say that natural suffering is caused by the Fall, then I will ask why the fall affected the world as it did. I assume it was Gods choice, and God that choose to inflict such great pain on some.

A third possible reason that God is letting evil occur is so that on the day of judgment, the condemned will have no right to say that their sentence is unjust. God is not stopping people from exercising their free will. Think about this: If someone said that God should stop evil and suffering, then should God then stop all evil and suffering? If God only stopped some of it, then we would still be asking the same question of why it exists.

I don't think the question would be such a problem if the extremes of suffering were reduced.

That said, for me the problem of evil isn't a big one. There are various answers to it, and all sorts of mental gymnastics to get past it.
 
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Ken-1122

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God has made his children sick in some passages to spare them from doing evil. To God, doing evil is very serious. Perhaps it is because practicing it means being separated from Him? :)
Why didn't he do that to Hitler, or Amin to prevent them from doing evil?

K
 
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Mr. Pedantic

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I saw an atheist article and in it they said:
"An omnibenevolent God would not absent himself/herself in ways that cause or allow suffering.
Furthermore, if some people can experience a "lack of God", then God is clearly not omnipresent."
I know that it isn't a reasonable argument but what would be a sensible answer to this "problem"?

The first part, I think, is a fairly reasonable question. I also don't think that "God works in mysterious ways", or variation thereof, is a reasonable answer; you must first show that it is reasonable to assume that suffering now is in lieu of reward later on.

The second part is just silly.
 
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Going Merry

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What, so God did not create them?

God created everything. But you have not read the bible if you believe everyone is his child? No actually the majority of people aren't his. Though they have the option of being adopted.

Scripture states we are his enemies actually if you wanted to know. Well unless you're his child, his love is poured out on you then.
 
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Ken-1122

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bad things happen. :) and yes, he does allow them to happen.
Well it seems to me if he is gonna be in the business of preventing evil, he should start with his enemies like Stalin, Gacey, Amin, Hitler, etc. and let the little stuff like what-ever naughty stuff his children might do slide.

K
 
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