What is your opinion on the Virgin Mary?

[Goatee]

Ok, here is a quote from one of your own links:

"At the Council of Chalcedon in 451, when bishops from throughout the Mediterranean world gathered in Constantinople, Emperor Marcian asked the Patriarch of Jerusalem to bring the relics of Mary to Constantinople to be enshrined in the capitol. The patriarch explained to the emperor that there were no relics of Mary in Jerusalem, that 'Mary had died in the presence of the apostles; but her tomb, when opened later . . . was found empty and so the apostles concluded that the body was taken up into heaven.'"

Where is the Scriptural support for this?

Where in the Bible does it say:

"Mary had died in the presence of the apostles; but her tomb, when opened later . . . was found empty and so the apostles concluded that the body was taken up into heaven."

There is NOTHING in the Bible that says anything at all about Mary dying in "the presence of the apostles." In actuality, we don't know how and when she died.

There is NOTHING in the Bible that says anything about Mary's tomb being "found empty". Nothing is said in the Bible about Mary's tomb at all.

There is NOTHING in the Bible about the apostles concluding that Mary's body was "taken up to heaven."

Not ONE of them wrote such a thing.

These teachings ARE NOT Biblical.

The CC does not use 'Sola Scriptura' like you do. We have Sacred Tradition. Handed down from the Apostles. Teachings, handed down from the Apostles. Facts, handed down by the Apostles.

The Word of God does not end in the Bible.

The teachings of God, do not end in the Bible.

Christian enlightenment, does not end in the Bible.

Jesus's work, does not end in the Bible.

The Holy spirit carries on working in the CC. It gives knowledge and understanding and guidance. These are things you do not believe in as if it is not written in the Bible then you don't believe it! Do you really think that Jesus's work ended on the last page of the Bible? Seriously?

The early church Fathers were filled with the Holy spirit, just like the Apostles. God was working in them to spread the Gospel and bring enlightenment to people.

When the cover of the Bible closes, God continues to teach and enlighten!

God bless you buddy

 

[amariselle]

Again and again you dont listen do you? Look up what 'brother' meant in the time of Jesus. The answer is there! lol

Can you not see the distinction that Jesus makes between His biological, earthly family and what it truly means to be His "mother", "brother" and "sister" through obedience to the Father?

Jesus' mother and brothers were standing outside wanting to talk with Him, and He very clearly indicated that there is a difference between being biologically related and being related through obedience to the Father, by doing His will.

Someone isn't listening, that's for sure. But don't listen to me, go to the Bible. (Above ANY words of man)

Again, if you read the links i put down you will see the Biblical proof for your questions. All you need to do is read them as there are passages from scripture there for you to read my dear friend!

Oh, I read the links, and I've read those things before. They contain nothing but Catholic Church teaching and unBiblical interpretations. I even quoted a part of one of the links you provided. The Catholic Church teaches many things that are not found anywhere in Scripture.

Where in the Bible is 'Sola Scriptura' mentioned?

It isn't, that's an accusation some Catholics like to throw at non-Catholics as a way to say "I'm right because I have Church tradition, and you're wrong because you go to the Bible." The word of God is to be held above the word of men (and women).

Where is NT mentioned in the Bible?

Where is 'Bible' mentioned in the Bible?

You ask these questions when you know exactly what the answer is. The "New Testament" is the "New Covenant" instituted by Jesus. And "Bible" is a collection of sacred writings, which is exactly what it is.

I find it very odd that you are asking questions like this, but at the same time you are not at all concerned that Mary is not venerated at all in the Bible. She is nowhere called "The Holy Tabernacle of God" for instance.

You still have not actually addressed my questions. You continually point me to Catholic teachings. Frankly, I find it very concerning that you do not point to the Bible alone as authoritative.

Again this passage is relevant:

John 21:25
25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

God bless you buddy

No, that passage is completely irrelevant to the way you choose to use it. We know many things that Jesus said and did. Those are the things the Gospel writers were inspired by God to write. Yes, He did other things, but we can be sure that whatever else He did, He NEVER contradicted Himself.

And any teachings that have come after Jesus that are contrary to the words of Jesus and the word of God, are not from Him. The Holy Spirit will not teach anything that contradicts what Jesus taught.

 

[Goatee]

Can you not see the distinction that Jesus makes between His biological, earthly family and what it truly means to be His "mother", "brother" and "sister" through obedience to the Father?

Jesus' mother and brothers were standing outside wanting to talk with Him, and He very clearly indicated that there is a difference between being biologically related and being related through obedience to the Father, by doing His will.

Someone isn't listening, that's for sure. But don't listen to me, go to the Bible. (Above ANY words of man)

Oh, I read the links, and I've read those things before. They contain nothing but Catholic Church teaching and unBiblical interpretations. I even quoted a part of one of the links you provided. The Catholic Church teaches many things that are not found anywhere in Scripture.

It isn't, that's an accusation some Catholics like to throw at non-Catholics as a way to say "I'm right because I have Church tradition, and you're wrong because you go to the Bible." The word of God is to be held above the word of men (and women).

You ask these questions when you know exactly what the answer is. The "New Testament" is the "New Covenant" instituted by Jesus. And "Bible" is a collection of sacred writings, which is exactly what it is.

I find it very odd that you are asking questions like this, but at the same time you are not at all concerned that Mary is not venerated at all in the Bible. She is nowhere called "The Holy Tabernacle of God" for instance.

You still have not actually addressed my questions. You continually point me to Catholic teachings. Frankly, I find it very concerning that you do not point to the Bible alone as authoritative.

No, that passage is completely irrelevant to the way you choose to use it. We know many things that Jesus said and did. Those are the things the Gospel writers were inspired by God to write. Yes, He did other things, but we can be sure that whatever else He did, He NEVER contradicted Himself.

And any teachings that have come after Jesus that are contrary to the words of Jesus and the word of God, are not from Him. The Holy Spirit will not teach anything that contradicts what Jesus taught.

Everyone is related where Jesus is concerned. We are all like Brothers and Sisters. We should all treat each other as such.

Obviously you have a big chip on your shoulder when it comes to the CC.

Holy Tradition goes hand in hand with the Bible.

You wont agree because you are dead against Catholicism.

I recommend that you read 'Crossing the Tiber' by Steve Ray. He was like you in that anything Catholic he hated. I have recommended this book before. In it you will find lots of 'BIBLICAL' evidence for what i have pointed out.

The CC is so wonderful and guided by the Holy Spirit.

I hope that one day you will see the light that will bring you home to the True Church of Christ, The Catholic Church.

God bless you

 

[amariselle]

Everyone is related where Jesus is concerned. We are all like Brothers and Sisters. We should all treat each other as such.

Obviously you have a big chip on your shoulder when it comes to the CC.

Holy Tradition goes hand in hand with the Bible.

You wont agree because you are dead against Catholicism.

I recommend that you read 'Crossing the Tiber' by Steve Ray. He was like you in that anything Catholic he hated. I have recommended this book before. In it you will find lots of 'BIBLICAL' evidence for what i have pointed out.

The CC is so wonderful and guided by the Holy Spirit.

I hope that one day you will see the light that will bring you home to the True Church of Christ, The Catholic Church.

God bless you

I have seen "the Light", He's my Saviour, Jesus. And THAT is what I hope for everyone.

And just so we're clear, I do not "hate" everything Catholic. My own grandparents were Catholic, (my mother was raised Catholic) and I have other family and friends who are Catholic as well.

My prayer for all of them is that they have and do turn to Jesus in all things, and that they turn to the word of God above any and all church traditions and doctrines. (This is my prayer for ALL denominations and church congregations)

As for me, there is not the smallest chance that I will ever be Catholic. What is most important to me is that I keep my eyes on Jesus, that I read His word and seek discernment in all things.

 

[amariselle]

The CC does not use 'Sola Scriptura' like you do. We have Sacred Tradition. Handed down from the Apostles. Teachings, handed down from the Apostles. Facts, handed down by the Apostles.

You should do some honest research into the actual history of the Catholic Church.

The Word of God does not end in the Bible.

The teachings of God, do not end in the Bible.

Christian enlightenment, does not end in the Bible.

Jesus's work, does not end in the Bible.

Anything we see and hear in regard to church teaching and tradition must not contradict the Bible. God gave us His word for a reason.

The Holy spirit carries on working in the CC. It gives knowledge and understanding and guidance. These are things you do not believe in as if it is not written in the Bible then you don't believe it! Do you really think that Jesus's work ended on the last page of the Bible? Seriously?

When did I EVER say that? You are putting words in my mouth, and frankly, I don't appreciate it.

The early church Fathers were filled with the Holy spirit, just like the Apostles. God was working in them to spread the Gospel and bring enlightenment to people.

I don't deny that some of them were indeed guided by the Holy Spirit, but if any of their "enlightenment" taught anything contrary to the word of God, then it was and is not from God.

When the cover of the Bible closes, God continues to teach and enlighten!

God bless you buddy

If it contradicts the Bible, then no, I don't believe it.

I make no apologies for that.

Continue to accuse me of being "misled" by "Sola Scriptura" all you like.

 

[Goatee]

I have seen "the Light", He's my Saviour, Jesus. And THAT is what I hope for everyone.

And just so we're clear, I do not "hate" everything Catholic. My own grandparents were Catholic, (my mother was raised Catholic) and I have other family and friends who are Catholic as well.

My prayer for all of them is that they have and do turn to Jesus in all things, and that they turn to the word of God above any and all church traditions and doctrines. (This is my prayer for ALL denominations and church congregations)

As for me, there is not the smallest chance that I will ever be Catholic. What is most important to me is that I keep my eyes on Jesus, that I read His word and seek discernment in all things.

Fair comment. Sorry for saying you are a Catholic Hater.

Jesus is all things Catholic to a Catholic and all things Catholic has Jesus in our teachings.

If you do get the chance though, please read the book i suggested. You must have heard of Steve Ray as he was a massive Protestant 'preacher' at one time.

For me, the Catholic church is 'Jesus'. Such a rich Tradition handed down via the Apostles by word and mouth.

Mary deserves all that the CC preach about Her. If you look into it in detail you will see how very much Biblical the teachings of the church are.

God bless you friend

 

[amariselle]

Fair comment. Sorry for saying you are a Catholic Hater.

Jesus is all things Catholic to a Catholic and all things Catholic has Jesus in our teachings.

If you do get the chance though, please read the book i suggested. You must have heard of Steve Ray as he was a massive Protestant 'preacher' at one time.

For me, the Catholic church is 'Jesus'. Such a rich Tradition handed down via the Apostles by word and mouth.

Mary deserves all that the CC preach about Her. If you look into it in detail you will see how very much Biblical the teachings of the church are.

God bless you friend

Well, I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree. (Without hate)

God bless you too.

 

[Goatee]

You should do some honest research into the actual history of the Catholic Church.

Anything we see and hear in regard to church teaching and tradition must not contradict the Bible. God gave us His word for a reason.

When did I EVER say that? You are putting words in my mouth, and frankly, I don't appreciate it.

I don't deny that some of them were indeed guided by the Holy Spirit, but if any of their "enlightenment" taught anything contrary to the word of God, then it was and is not from God.

If it contradicts the Bible, then no, I don't believe it.

I make no apologies for that.

Continue to accuse me of being "misled" by "Sola Scriptura" all you like.

Obviously you don't know much if anything 'true' about the CC. That is evident in your replies!

CC teaching does not contradict the Bible. Do some research and you will see, Holy Tradition and the Bible go hand in hand.

You do make it out that when the Bible closes everything else in Christianity ends there. It doesn't. The Early church Fathers were guided by the Holy Spirit and taught all that was given to them by God. This is how the Church has developed, Bible and Tradition. This is what Jesus wanted.

Nothing they taught was contrary to what God wanted.

You are a Sola Scripura person in that you only believe in what is written in the Bible at face value. You cannot see past that. You cannot see the rich teachings of the church brought about by Holy Tradition. Maybe one day you will.

You continue to accuse Catholics of being misled all the time but we know that God is guiding the CC. He dwells in the church and brings forth many fruits from it.

Blessings to you

 

[Goatee]

Well, I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree. (Without hate)

God bless you too.

Of course. Its good to have a discussion like we are. No hate at all.

 

[Geralt]

- too bold a statement, you do understand that rcc doctrines about mary mushroomed not during the days of the early fathers but later on when all the so called 'early church fathers' were in their graves.

- ridiculous assertion, in fact councils were called to resolve difference of beliefs between this early fathers and they branded each other as heretics. point is they are all infallible man.

- your conclusion about 'sola scriptura' as you defined it seems to be a bad idea. listen to yourself, you truly have lost all manner of respect in scripture, shameless. you who would rather prefer to kowtow before men and systems rather than submit to the God's revealed word in scripture.​

Obviously you don't know much if anything 'true' about the CC. That is evident in your replies!

CC teaching does not contradict the Bible. Do some research and you will see, Holy Tradition and the Bible go hand in hand.

You do make it out that when the Bible closes everything else in Christianity ends there. It doesn't. 1) The Early church Fathers were guided by the Holy Spirit and taught all that was given to them by God. This is how the Church has developed, Bible and Tradition. This is what Jesus wanted.

2) Nothing they taught was contrary to what God wanted.

3) You are a Sola Scripura person in that you only believe in what is written in the Bible at face value. You cannot see past that. You cannot see the rich teachings of the church brought about by Holy Tradition. Maybe one day you will.

You continue to accuse Catholics of being misled all the time but we know that God is guiding the CC. He dwells in the church and brings forth many fruits from it.

Blessings to you

 

[Goatee]

- too bold a statement, you do understand that rcc doctrines about mary mushroomed not during the days of the early fathers but later on when all the so called 'early church fathers' were in their graves.

- ridiculous assertion, in fact councils were called to resolve difference of beliefs between this early fathers and they branded each other as heretics. point is they are all infallible man.

- your conclusion about 'sola scriptura' as you defined it seems to be a bad idea. listen to yourself, you truly have lost all manner of respect in scripture, shameless. you who would rather prefer to kowtow before men and systems rather than submit to the God's revealed word in scripture.​

Looks like you still dont know anything about the CC my dear friend! You need to do some proper research buddy.

So awesome knowing that Sacred Tradition has carried on down through history in the CC, feeding it with knowledge.

The 'Church' did not die when the Bible was closed shut! It has continued to grow in knowledge via the Holy Spirit, just like Jesus said it would.

God Bless you buddy

 

[Geralt]

1) always this lame excuse from rcc proponents, only shows quite the arrogance. if you dont want to level down and say the reason why you make such a personal conclusion, i'd say you best be off time traveling to the middle ages.

2) true the church did not die, but the question remains 'what qualifies the church'. Paul and Peter would be quite aghast to see the rcc claiming to be their heritage when all they can see is people kneeling in statues of a polished face woman they claim to be mary and playing beads on their hands mumbling mantra type prayers.​

Looks like 1) you still dont know anything about the CC my dear friend! You need to do some proper research buddy.

So awesome knowing that Sacred Tradition has carried on down through history in the CC, feeding it with knowledge.

2) The 'Church' did not die when the Bible was closed shut! It has continued to grow in knowledge via the Holy Spirit, just like Jesus said it would.

God Bless you buddy

 

[Goatee]

1) always this lame excuse from rcc proponents, only shows quite the arrogance. if you dont want to level down and say the reason why you make such a personal conclusion, i'd say you best be off time traveling to the middle ages.

2) true the church did not die, but the question remains 'what qualifies the church'. Paul and Peter would be quite aghast to see the rcc claiming to be their heritage when all they can see is people kneeling in statues of a polished face woman they claim to be mary and playing beads on their hands mumbling mantra type prayers.​

DEFINITELY you need to do more research my friend! You have obviously been wrongly informed about the CC.

God bless you buddy

 

[Geralt]

nah, for you i wipe the dust off my feet.

DEFINITELY you need to do more research my friend! You have obviously been wrongly informed about the CC.

God bless you buddy

 

[Goatee]

nah, for you i wipe the dust off my feet.

Guess the truth hurts hey buddy?

Ah well, god bless you

 

[Geralt]

..what truth? you haven't written anything worth arguing, only the arrogance of telling people they need to study.
its all happening in your mind, you need to get out and breathe some fresh air.

Guess the truth hurts hey buddy?
Ah well, god bless you

 

[Goatee]

..what truth? you haven't written anything worth arguing, only the arrogance of telling people they need to study.
its all happening in your mind, you need to get out and breathe some fresh air.

Thank you buddy. Keep searching as the answer is out there for you. One day you will find it.

God bless you my dear friend

 

[Geralt]

the truth is in christ found in scripture (2Tim3:16), not somewhere out there.

Thank you buddy. Keep searching as the answer is out there for you. One day you will find it.

God bless you my dear friend

 

[Goatee]

the truth is in christ found in scripture (2Tim3:16), not somewhere out there.

Very true indeed. Looks like you got the message then!

Mary is Our Blessed Mother Dear Friend. She watches over all of us, Her children.

God bless you buddy

 

[Geralt]

jewish mary died along time ago. she got old, then she died. remove her out of the picture (apart from her role in the incarnation), the gospel message remains the same. so why bother. it is not an accident that the epistles never mentioned anything about her, nor her supposedly ascension that should have been a spectacular story. why? because it was all made up, a work of fiction possibly by some ebionite lost in mystical lunacy. meant no offense, im actually trying to help you, but if you want to waste your life-time on an rcc version of a romanticized mary, it is your 'free will' - as you would have said it - a true case in point not of free will but of the bondage of the will.

Very true indeed. Looks like you got the message then!
Mary is Our Blessed Mother Dear Friend. She watches over all of us, Her children.
God bless you buddy