What is your opinion on the Virgin Mary?

[bbbbbbb]

You are speculating without any evidence yourself! lol

Why did Jesus give Mary to John and any of his so called 'Brother' as you have said?

Did Jesus say why?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Protestant translators?

Where does it say Mary bore these children?

No, Catholic translators. There is not a single Catholic translation of the Bible that does not say in all five passages that Jesus Christ had brothers and sisters. Surely, if the manuscripts allowed for other possibilties don't you think your translators would have used those others rather than those pesky "brothers and sisters"?

 

[bbbbbbb]

If you study Catholicism you will see, quite clearly, that the church does NOT teach anything that is contrary to Biblical writings. Its only those that look at scripture, through a Sola Scriptura Lens that see things differently.

If you get the chance please read 'Crossing the Tiber' by Stephen Ray. It is a remarkable story of a man who absolutely was against the CC in every way possible until he 'saw the light'. An amazing book.

CC is a wonderful church with historic roots. Roots dug deep in scripture, guided by the Holy Spirit.

God bless you buddy

Your church denomination does, indeed, go to great lengths to reinvent and add to things taught in scripture. For example, the dogmas of the Immaculate Conception of Mary, the Assumption of Mary, and the Perpetual Virginity of Mary have no basis in scripture whatsoever.

 

[amariselle]

Your church denomination does, indeed, go to great lengths to reinvent and add to things taught in scripture. For example, the dogmas of the Immaculate Conception of Mary, the Assumption of Mary, and the Perpetual Virginity of Mary have no basis in scripture whatsoever.

Exactly.

Jesus was clear about what it meant to be His "mother", "brother", and "sister."

Nowhere in Scripture is there anything said about Mary being "venerated" or "put on a high pedestal."

Mary didn't even see herself that way, and neither did Jesus.

And the Holy Spirit would NEVER teach anything contrary to what Jesus taught and what the Bible says.

 

[Goatee]

More babble. You continue to imagine that virginity is holiness and marital intercourse is dirty. Thus, for Joseph and Mary to have led a marital life according to God's holy commandment would have been "to pull Mary down to the depths of a normal person". Was she a demi-goddess or a goddess? I hate to burst your bubble, but God never intended to condemn people for having marital relations and actually commands married couples to be fruitful and multiply. Your own denomination teaches that, does it not?

My "facts" are clearly stated in scripture where three independent authors specifically state five times that Jesus Christ had physical brothers and sisters. If they did not come from Mary and Joseph, you need to do some mighty spinning to invent a source for them.

Where have i said Marital intercourse is 'dirty?'

Joseph knew that Mary was the Holy Tabernacle of God and thus made sure he kept that Tabernacle 'pure'. Mary was no 'ordinary' person. She was/is the Mother of God.

You need to see that and remember that God had set out for her to be sin free and Holy.

You have no 'facts' at all. You have been told on numerous occasions what 'Brother' meant in Jesus time but still dont see it!

Nowhere in scripture does it say that MARY bore any other children!

You are spinning by saying that Mary bore more children! There is no 'proof' for that in scripture. You are just plucking it from thin air!

 

[Goatee]

Did Jesus say why?

You cannot answer that can you? If Jesus had any bothers then he would not have asked John to take care of his Mother. Why would anyone not ask a sibling to take care of their mother? Why ask someone else?
Well?

 

[Goatee]

No, Catholic translators. There is not a single Catholic translation of the Bible that does not say in all five passages that Jesus Christ had brothers and sisters. Surely, if the manuscripts allowed for other possibilties don't you think your translators would have used those others rather than those pesky "brothers and sisters"?

Where does it state that Mary bore any children. Where does it state that these 'Brothers & Sisters' were Mary's children?

What did the term 'Brother' mean in ancient Jewish times? You have the answer for that and yet you don't accept that 'FACT'.

 

[Goatee]

Your church denomination does, indeed, go to great lengths to reinvent and add to things taught in scripture. For example, the dogmas of the Immaculate Conception of Mary, the Assumption of Mary, and the Perpetual Virginity of Mary have no basis in scripture whatsoever.

Info:

https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya2.htm

https://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/AOFMARY.HTM

https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/maryc2.htm

Study these links' VERY CAREFULLY' as there are the answers that you seek my dear friend. All there for you. Info that goes back to the Apostles.

God bless you buddy

 

[Goatee]

Exactly.

Jesus was clear about what it meant to be His "mother", "brother", and "sister."

Nowhere in Scripture is there anything said about Mary being "venerated" or "put on a high pedestal."

Mary didn't even see herself that way, and neither did Jesus.

And the Holy Spirit would NEVER teach anything contrary to what Jesus taught and what the Bible says.

John 21:25
25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

Now, you see, The Holy Spirit came unto the Apostles in the upper room and Jesus did say that the Holy Spirit would help them when preaching the Gospel etc.

The Holy Spirit has continued to do this throughout the history of the CC. Guiding it and directing it and its teachings and Dogmas.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit did not cease to 'Work' when the last word was written in the NT! Their work continued / continues.

 

[amariselle]

John 21:25
25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

Now, you see, The Holy Spirit came unto the Apostles in the upper room and Jesus did say that the Holy Spirit would help them when preaching the Gospel etc.

The Holy Spirit has continued to do this throughout the history of the CC. Guiding it and directing it and its teachings and Dogmas.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit did not cease to 'Work' when the last word was written in the NT! Their work continued / continues.

I never said otherwise.

But the Holy Spirit does not teach anything contrary to what the Bible (and Jesus Himself) taught.

Mary herself knew she needed a Saviour.

Mary said she was the Lord's "humble servant."

Jesus taught what it clearly means to be his "mother", "brother" and "sister."

Jesus declared who is truly "blessed" when a woman suggested Mary is blessed.

Mary and Joseph were married and there is absolutely no reason to believe they did not share a normal married relationship and have other children. Children were a blessing and an inheritance in the Jewish culture. And sex within marriage does not make either person impure.

Any church or individual person that teaches things contrary to Scripture is not teaching the truth in regard to those things.

God does not contradict Himself.

We are to seek God, remain in His word and pray for guidance and discernment, and we are to "test" all things.

 

[Goatee]

I never said otherwise.

But the Holy Spirit does not teach anything contrary to what the Bible (and Jesus Himself) taught.

Mary herself knew she needed a Saviour.

Mary said she was the Lord's "humble servant."

Jesus taught what it clearly means to be his "mother", "brother" and "sister."

Jesus declared who is truly "blessed" when a woman suggested Mary is blessed.

Mary and Joseph were married and there is absolutely no reason to believe they did not share a normal married relationship and have other children. Children were a blessing and an inheritance in the Jewish culture. And sex within marriage does not make either person impure.

Any church or individual person that teaches things contrary to Scripture is not teaching the truth in regard to those things.

God does not contradict Himself.

We are to seek God, remain in His word and pray for guidance and discernment, and we are to "test" all things.

Mary was indeed a Holy and humble person. She would not think of herself as above anyone or anything.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that Mary and Joseph had other children as nothing in scripture says that Mary bore any more children with Joseph. Their marriage was above anything 'earthly'. Joseph knew that Mary was indeed Holy and thus respected that.

Look at the links i have pasted (208 above) regarding Mary. Many Biblical passages that the CC can link to the beliefs of the church.

 

[amariselle]

Where have i said Marital intercourse is 'dirty?'

Joseph knew that Mary was the Holy Tabernacle of God and thus made sure he kept that Tabernacle 'pure'. Mary was no 'ordinary' person. She was/is the Mother of God.

You need to see that and remember that God had set out for her to be sin free and Holy.

You have no 'facts' at all. You have been told on numerous occasions what 'Brother' meant in Jesus time but still dont see it!

Nowhere in scripture does it say that MARY bore any other children!

You are spinning by saying that Mary bore more children! There is no 'proof' for that in scripture. You are just plucking it from thin air!

Where is your "proof" from Scripture that Mary is the "Holy Tabernacle of God" or that Jesus (or any of the disciples and other early Christians) ever saw her as such?

Where is your "proof" from Scripture that having marital sex is impure and would somehow have defiled Mary?

Where is your "proof" from Scripture that Mary remained a virgin?

Where is your "proof" from Scripture that Joseph saw Mary as the "Holy Tabernacle of God", and therefore chose not to have marital relations with her, his wife?

Where is your "proof" from Scripture that Mary was sinless? (When she herself acknowledged that she rejoiced in her Saviour)

Where is your "proof from Scripture that Jesus had no brothers? (Jesus actually makes a distinction between His biological family and what it truly means to be His "mother", "brother" and "sister."

There is indeed a lot of "spinning" and "plucking things from thin air" going on.

You object to anyone who would say that Jesus had siblings, (when the Bible does, in fact, indicate that He did) but you yourself believe in all kinds of things that are not in the Bible at all.

Everything you have stated about Mary has no Scriptural basis whatsoever. And when anyone points that out, you accuse them of being "misled" by the apparent fault of "Sola Scriptura."

It is wrong to put the doctrines and teachings of ANY church or denomination above the word of God.

 

[Goatee]

Where is your "proof" from Scripture that Mary is the "Holy Tabernacle of God" or that Jesus (or any of the disciples and other early Christians) ever saw her as such?

Whet is your "proof" from Scripture that having marital sex is impure and would somehow have defiled Mary?

Where is your "proof" from Scripture that Mary remained a virgin?

Where is your "proof" from Scripture that Joseph saw Mary as the "Holy Tabernacle of God", and therefore chose not to have marital relations with her, his wife?

Where is your "proof" from Scripture that Mary was sinless? (When she herself acknowledged that she rejoiced in her Saviour)

Where is your "proof from Scripture that Jesus had no brothers? (Jesus actually makes a distinction between His biological family and what it truly means to be His "mother", "brother" and "sister."

There is indeed a lot of "spinning" and "plucking things from thin air" going on.

You object to anyone who would say that Jesus had siblings, (when the Bible does, in fact, indicate that He did) but you yourself believe in all kinds of things that are not in the Bible at all.

Everything you have stated about Mary has no Scriptural basis whatsoever. And when anyone point that out, you accuse them of being "misled" by the apparent fault of "Sola Scriptura."

It is wrong to put the doctrines and teachings of ANY church or denomination above the word of God.

Look at the links i posted in post 208 my dear friend. Lots of info is in there for you buddy.

God bless you

 

[amariselle]

Mary was indeed a Holy and humble person. She would not think of herself as above anyone or anything.

Exactly, and yet, the Catholic Church elevates her above all other Christians, until she is pretty close to being divine herself.

As for being holy, God alone is holy and he alone is to be worshipped and elevated above all.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that Mary and Joseph had other children as nothing in scripture says that Mary bore any more children with Joseph. Their marriage was above anything 'earthly'. Joseph knew that Mary was indeed Holy and thus respected that.

Nothing in Scripture indicates she didn't have other children. The Bible does in fact indicate she did.

Look at the links i have pasted (208 above) regarding Mary. Many Biblical passages that the CC can link to the beliefs of the church.

Thank you, but no. I will go to the word of God, not Catholic interpretations of it.

You have made it quite clear what the Catholic Church teaches in regard to Mary (and actually, I was already entirely aware of Catholic teaching in this regard) and it is not Biblical.

 

[amariselle]

Look at the links i posted in post 208 my dear friend. Lots of info is in there for you buddy.

God bless you

I asked you for Scriptural support for your claims, not Catholic teaching.

Are you not able to provide any?

 

[Goatee]

Exactly, and yet, the Catholic Church elevates her above all other Christians, until she is pretty close to being divine herself.

As for being holy, God alone is holy and he alone is to be worshipped and elevated above all.

Nothing in Scripture indicates she didn't have other children. The Bible does in fact indicate she did.

Thank you, but no. I will go to the word of God, not Catholic interpretations of it.

You have made it quite clear what the Catholic Church teaches in regard to Mary (and actually, I was already entirely aware of Catholic teaching in this regard) and it is not Biblical.

Where does it state that Mary bore other children? Where?

Ah, so you dismiss the CC links i have posted for you! Truth hurts i guess. You afraid of being shown how true the CC teaching is on these points?

It IS VERY BIBLICAL. Check out those links for the evidence my dear friend.

God bless you buddy

 

[Goatee]

I asked you for Scriptural support for your claims, not Catholic teaching.

Are you not able to provide any?

If you look in those links there is plenty of scriptural support!

God bless you my dear friend

 

[amariselle]

Where does it state that Mary bore other children? Where?

"As Jesus was speaking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him. Someone told Jesus, 'Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, and they want to speak to you.'"

"Jesus asked, 'Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?' Then he pointed to his disciples and said, 'Look, these are my mother and brothers. Anyone who does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother!'" (Matthew 12:46-49)

Jesus makes a distinction here between His biological family (mother and brothers) who were standing outside, and what it means to be His brother, sister and mother through obedience to the will of God the Father.

However, the major teachings of the Catholic Church in regard to Mary are not Biblical. If you think they are, please answer these questions.

Where does the Bible state Mary was sinless?

Where does the Bible state Mary was always a virgin?

Where does the Bible state that Mary is the "Holy Tabernacle of God"?

Where does the Bible state that Mary is our "blessed mother?"

Where does the Bible state that Mary and Joseph, her husband, didn't have sexual relations?

Where does the Bible state that Jesus wanted His mother to be lifted up above all other believers and venerated?

Ah, so you dismiss the CC links i have posted for you! Truth hurts i guess. You afraid of being shown how true the CC teaching is on these points?

I "dismiss" ANY teachings that are contrary to the word of God.

It IS VERY BIBLICAL. Check out those links for the evidence my dear friend.

God bless you buddy

If it's Biblical, it should be found in the Bible, correct? So where are these teachings about Mary found in the Bible?

Here are two of my previous posts which you did not actually address. Your response was to point me to Catholic teachings, I am asking for Scriptural support for the Catholic teachings on Mary.

Where is your "proof" from Scripture that Mary is the "Holy Tabernacle of God" or that Jesus (or any of the disciples and other early Christians) ever saw her as such?

Whet is your "proof" from Scripture that having marital sex is impure and would somehow have defiled Mary?

Where is your "proof" from Scripture that Mary remained a virgin?

Where is your "proof" from Scripture that Joseph saw Mary as the "Holy Tabernacle of God", and therefore chose not to have marital relations with her, his wife?

Where is your "proof" from Scripture that Mary was sinless? (When she herself acknowledged that she rejoiced in her Saviour)

Where is your "proof from Scripture that Jesus had no brothers? (Jesus actually makes a distinction between His biological family and what it truly means to be His "mother", "brother" and "sister."

There is indeed a lot of "spinning" and "plucking things from thin air" going on.

You object to anyone who would say that Jesus had siblings, (when the Bible does, in fact, indicate that He did) but you yourself believe in all kinds of things that are not in the Bible at all.

Everything you have stated about Mary has no Scriptural basis whatsoever. And when anyone points that out, you accuse them of being "misled" by the apparent fault of "Sola Scriptura."

It is wrong to put the doctrines and teachings of ANY church or denomination above the word of God.

I asked you for Scriptural support for your claims, not Catholic teaching.

Are you not able to provide any?

 

[amariselle]

If you look in those links there is plenty of scriptural support!

God bless you my dear friend

Ok, here is a quote from one of your own links:

"At the Council of Chalcedon in 451, when bishops from throughout the Mediterranean world gathered in Constantinople, Emperor Marcian asked the Patriarch of Jerusalem to bring the relics of Mary to Constantinople to be enshrined in the capitol. The patriarch explained to the emperor that there were no relics of Mary in Jerusalem, that 'Mary had died in the presence of the apostles; but her tomb, when opened later . . . was found empty and so the apostles concluded that the body was taken up into heaven.'"

Where is the Scriptural support for this?

Where in the Bible does it say:

"Mary had died in the presence of the apostles; but her tomb, when opened later . . . was found empty and so the apostles concluded that the body was taken up into heaven."

There is NOTHING in the Bible that says anything at all about Mary dying in "the presence of the apostles." In actuality, we don't know how and when she died.

There is NOTHING in the Bible that says anything about Mary's tomb being "found empty". Nothing is said in the Bible about Mary's tomb at all.

There is NOTHING in the Bible about the apostles concluding that Mary's body was "taken up to heaven."

Not ONE of them wrote such a thing.

These teachings ARE NOT Biblical.

 

[Goatee]

"As Jesus was speaking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him. Someone told Jesus, 'Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, and they want to speak to you.'"

"Jesus asked, 'Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?' Then he pointed to his disciples and said, 'Look, these are my mother and brothers. Anyone who does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother!'" (Matthew 12:46-49)

Jesus makes a distinction here between His biological family (mother and brothers) who were standing outside, and what it means to be His brother, sister and mother through obedience to the will of God the Father.

However, the major teachings of the Catholic Church in regard to Mary are not Biblical. If you think they are, please answer these questions.

Where does the Bible state Mary was sinless?

Where does the Bible state Mary was always a virgin?

Where does the Bible state that Mary is the "Holy Tabernacle of God"?

Where does the Bible state that Mary is our "blessed mother?"

Where does the Bible state that Mary and Joseph, her husband, didn't have sexual relations?

Where does the Bible state that Jesus wanted His mother to be lifted up above all other believers and venerated?

I "dismiss" ANY teachings that are contrary to the word of God.

If it's Biblical, it should be found in the Bible, correct? So where are these teachings about Mary found in the Bible?

Here are two of my previous posts which you did not actually address. Your response was to point me to Catholic teachings, I am asking for Scriptural support for the Catholic teachings on Mary.

Again and again you dont listen do you? Look up what 'brother' meant in the time of Jesus. The answer is there! lol

Again, if you read the links i put down you will see the Biblical proof for your questions. All you need to do is read them as there are passages from scripture there for you to read my dear friend!

Where in the Bible is 'Sola Scriptura' mentioned?

Where is NT mentioned in the Bible?

Where is 'Bible' mentioned in the Bible?

Again this passage is relevant:

John 21:25
25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

God bless you buddy