What is wrong with Calvinism ?

[P1LGR1M]

That is not what John 3:16 meant.

John 3:16 means exactly what it states:


John 3:16
King James Version

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


This is why you cannot present John 3:16 and show that there is something other than believing in Christ that leads to everlasting life.

You know it, I know it, and God knows it.

This is why Jesus spoke of Israel “doing truth” so that their “deeds may be made manifest” (John 3:21),

You might want to look at your proof text a little closer:


John 3:19-21
King James Version

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


I don't see a contrast between what men do and don't do, it seems to me that the Basic Bible Principle that there is none good, no not one is reiterated.

What is the Light that came into the world, my friend?

Which men loved light rather than darkness?

Why do men stand under condemnation already if they do not do one thing...


John 3:18
King James Version

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


You are creating a false dichotomy among men, those who do good and those who do evil. Those who come to the light and those who do not.

You keep speaking about Israel, but we don't see Israel in John 3:16—we see the world.

And since not the first man is believing in Christ at this point because Christ has not been lifted up, we again see the principle that the entire world loves darkness rather than light.


John 3:19
King James Version

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.


So are you going to say that there were men that were righteous? God is wrong in His assessment that there are none good, not even one?

You are missing the fact that Christ's ministry has a two-fold application, one under Law, and one in which He redeems men from the Law.

Paul makes it clear there is a dividing line in History at the Cross of Christ:


Galatians 3:23-25
King James Version

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


You need to better understand why Christ was made under the Law, and what that means to His earthly ministry to the Lost Sheep of Israel:


Galatians 4:4-6
King James Version

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Then you too might be able to come into agreement with God and His Word and acknowledge that John 3:16 does not place any requirement upon the world other than that they believe in Jesus Christ:


John 3:16
King James Version

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Then you too might begin accomplishing what you are called to do: preach and teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, not a gospel of works.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

and two chapters later speaks about their resurrection being contingent on what “they have done” (John 5:29).

John 5:21-23
King James Version

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.


Still see faith in Christ as the reason why men are raised unto life.

Perhaps you missed all of what Christ has to say here?


24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


We are made alive upon our confession of faith in Christ.


29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


When did those who are physically resurrected receive life? When were they quickened? Back up to verse 24 and see what Christ has to say about the matter.


Ephesians 2
King James Version

1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


I'm sorry, but we cannot debate this issue. For there is no debate.

Salvation is through believing in Christ alone. It is a gift bestowed by the grace of God to men that walk in darkness, who are dead in trespasses and sin. And that is the case for every man since Adam including Adam.

What part of "Not of yourselves" are you not understanding?

Furthermore, if John 3:16, as you believe, is John commenting about believing and nothing else, he would be contradicting himself in 1 John when he wrote

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him

1 John 3:
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

So we are not saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves? It is, as you say—of works?

Please answer.

At the end of the day, if you are determined to make John 3:16 only about believing, nothing anyone say about scripture will change your mind.

I can't make John 3:16 say anything other than what it says.

And it is only about believing, and your efforts to impose more into Christ's Word will avail you nothing.

Because you are novice in your understanding of Bible Doctrine you are unable to distinguish between Salvation and Sanctification.

Remission of sins is bestowed in Christ in an eternal context:


Hebrews 10:10-14
King James Version

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


Go and learn what that meaneth.

The sacrifices of the Law could never make one complete in regard to remission of sins. The Sacrifice of Christ does so forever.

That is the Word of God, and until you understand that you will not be expressing faith in JEsus Christ for salvation, you will be left to have faith in yourself.

And I am sorry, my friend, you cannot save yourself.

I am not calling your salvation into question, just your undertanding. As I said, it is obvious you are a novice in handling the Word of God, and you need to come to a better understanding of Eternal Redemption before trying to teach those of us that do have explicit faith in Christ alone.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Do you mean to say the gospel of the kingdom instead?

No, Peter began preaching the unveiled Gospel of Jesus Christ on the Day of Pentecost.

The Gospel of the Kingdom was the veiled Gospel of Christ that centeres on Messianic Prophecy specific to Israel.

They were in anticipation of a literal King that would rule over a literal Kingdom and of His Kingdom there would be no end. It was a physical expectation and was clueless to their real great need, Eternal Redemption.

This is why Peter denied he knew Christ. This is why he was willing to commit murder to keep Christ from the Cross. This is why He rejects the Gospel in Matthew 16:20-23.

Because it was not revealed to him that Jesus had to die in the Cross to be the vicarious Sacrifice for Peter, that he might receive the promises of God that went beyond the physical expectation of Israel.

Your Day 1 did not start from Acts 2. In Luke 9:6, we read

It does start from Acts 2, because it is not until then that they are Baptized with the Holy Ghost, or in other words, receive the Promise of the Father which is the Eternal indwelling of God, which is salvation itself.

Acts 1:4-5 is showing they are still in need of the Baptism with the Holy Ghost. Acts 11:13-18 shows that the Baptism with the Holy Ghost is salvation. While most Systems of Theology teach the Baptism with the Holy Ghost as a "second event" and an empowering, Scripture does not. It is the Baptism of the Two Baptisms the Baptizer (Christ) performs. One is unto Eternal Life and one is unto Eternal Damnation.

This is why John the Baptist's teaching is quoted in each of the statements about the Baptism with the Holy Ghost:


Matthew 3:11-12
King James Version

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


The disciples were gathered into the Lord's Garner on the Day of Pentecost.

And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.

And?

Doesn't change the fact that the Gospel of Christ was a Mystery, previously unrevealed truth in all Ages except this one:


Romans 16:25-26
King James Version

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:


Colossians 1:25-27
King James Version

25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

You have a very bad habit of trying to cancel Scripture with your proof texts.

What is the content of this gospel they were preaching in Luke 9?

That the Kingdom was at hand.

In order to understand how Israel understood it you have but to read the Prophecy that described this Kingdom they expected. In it, men would live long lives again, as men once did, and the enmity between animals and man—as well as animals and animal—would end. There would be a Son of David on the throne forever, which was likely understood that the Messiah would never fail to have a son on the Throne.

That this Kingdom will come is indicated by Christ's statement in Acts 1:6-7, as well as stated in Revelation 20.

When we read "The Kingdom of God (or Heaven) is like unto ..." the Lord is teaching about that physical Kingdom. Think about the parable of the talents: will money be relevant in the Eternal State, the new heavens and Earth (universe)? No, but it will be relevant in the thousand year Kingdom that will be established 75 days after Christ Second Coming.

And the message is not really any different than the same principles God has always tried to teach men: Love God and your neighbor. God's will is always for man's benefit, whether they understand that or not.

"What do you mean we can't eat of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil?!"

The fact remains, the Gospel of Jesus Christ was veiled from the understanding of men. We know, for example, how it is that Abraham's Seed blesses all families of the earth. Abraham did not. Galatians 3:6-8 and Romans 4 tell us exactly what Abraham believed. How the veiled Gospel was delivered to him. It was the Gospel, as is the Gospel of the Kingdom, but how that applies in an eternal context is only revealed by the Spirit in this Age to men.

And it is believing that Gospel in its Eternal application—that Christ died in our stead that we might receive remission of sins in an eternal context and be justified in an eternal context—that we are saved.


God bless.

 

[Guojing]

No, Peter began preaching the unveiled Gospel of Jesus Christ on the Day of Pentecost.

God bless.

Thanks for clarifying that the gospel preached in Luke 9:6 was not the same gospel preached in Acts 2.

Let's now go into what Peter was actually preaching in early Acts.

Do you think there is a difference between preaching

• In wickedness, you have killed your Messiah but God raised him from the dead as a sign that he is truly the Son of God, so repent of that wicked deed and be water baptized, and you will be saved from your sins in the future. (Acts 2:36 Acts 3:14-21 Acts 5:30 Acts 7:52)

versus

• Christ has died for your sins and rose again on the 3rd day for your justification. (1 Cor 15:1-4)

 

[Guojing]

So we are not saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves? It is, as you say—of works?

Please answer.

I am asking you to read those verses in 1 John that I have provided you.

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him

1 John 3:
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Read them literally, without trying to insert Paul into them, and tell me what is John teaching.

Is he teaching salvation as faith alone, without works of any kind?

Tell me.

 

[Mark Quayle]

You did not quote Calvin on that particular topic - but I did so much earlier on this thread, Notice: I am not going to spend the time to find it now!

Much of Calvinism does not line up with 1 Timothy 2:4 which declares God desires all to be saved - so how does God, who is declared as being love in 1 John 4:16, traffic in predesting any to reprobation - truly a mystery (i.e not scriptural). Leading Calvinists, John MacArthur and John Piper, agree with the plain reading of 1 Timothy 2:4 - as it is plain. Yet, MacArthur and Piper assert that God loves some (i.e. future elect) more than others - so only the predestined to do so will be saved! At some point, one has to recognize the numerous red flags and turn away!

Calvinism isn't Calvin. As for 1 Timothy 2:4, we have, as @Clare73 is known to say, already litigated that and will not be re-litigating it again here.

The numerous red flags are, among other things, the notion that God must bow to circumstances beyond his control: Causation by mere chance; The obscene will of fallen man's dead spiritual self at enmity with Christ in and of himself to want Christ in any valid measure; The uselessness of a some of Christ's payment for sin; All that and more, not to mention, bad exegesis of passages that are necessarily called "plain reading" while the opposite applies to the Calvinist's favorites; and so on. Just sayin'...

 

[Pielun123]

Dear @P1LGR1M

Very very interesting comments you just made. Most of what you are saying is spot on. It's what you are 'not saying' or leaving out that I would like to discuss further.

Firstly, and I see this way to often, how can a person talk about the act of being saved by the Lord's divine grace without even mentioning the need to be born-again? The need to be born-again is absolutely quintessential and often rather unfortunately glossed over.

Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour said that “except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3). That is, more bluntly, if you are not born again, you are going to hell. If a man is not “born of God” and “regenerated” “he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (John 3:5). “Ye must be born again” (John 3:7). 1 Peter 1:23 similarly talks of “being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of Incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.” Just by glancing over these few and limited scriptures, the importance of being born again in relation to a person’s salvation is quickly grasped as to be vital. And so, the questions that we need to soberly ask is: how can one be sure that they are born again? Further and fundamentally, what is it to be born again? A failure to ask these very questions, or to have them left unanswered or even ambiguously understood, could cost a person dearly and eternally should an incorrect assumption be made.

There is SO much that goes into being-born again and there is no way I could possibly cover it all in this reply of mine, but I will very briefly try to summarize what the Scriptures say:

The very moment a person places their complete trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, they are baptized with the "Holy Spirit" (Matthew 3:11, Acts 1:5). This is in direct fulfillment to the prophecy spoken by Ezekiel in 36:26 when he spoke and said "a new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh". We need this new heart because "the heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" (Jeramiah 17:9). There is none good - which is why you need this new heart of flesh aka being being born-again. This is why 2 Corinthians 5:17 says "therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new".
Paul call this the "new man" and it is mentioned through the New Testament. Ephesians 4:24 tells us to "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness". Now, just to clarify we play ZERO role in our salvation as it is God who draws us to Him ("while we were yet sinners" mind you) and the Son who washes us clean with His blood. Even now that we are His, there is nothing that we can do to even deserve or earn the grace and mercy that He has shown us. However, to say that the "new man" created in "righteousness and true holiness" lives a life of continual, habitual and unrepentant sin is wrong. Plain and simple - it cannot be. Yes, we might wrestle with sin and the old man and stumble at times but ultimately there is a striving and obedience to the Father. There is a fruit bearing that naturally takes places as the wild olive branch settles in and starts to do what olive branches do. But even these fruits, or good works don't belong to us, as they are fueled 100% by God's working in us. Jesus was clear that "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing" (John 15:5). Without God's power we are dead lifeless branches. Our good works don't even belong to us. Therefore, nothing we can do before or after we come to Christ will ever be enough to save us. We need to believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and be born-again - all of this God does.

If a person does not have any good works/fruits in their life but is enslaved to sin, the works of the flesh (Galatians 5:9-21) and in bondage to evil lusts with no power to overcome it might be because of 2 things: 1) they are born-again but are quenching, grieving and resisting the work of the Holy Spirit in their life and are in danger of being cast out as a branch (John 15:6) or 2) they were never born-again in the first place.

In Summary:

• Grace + Faith + Works = Salvation (is a stance not supported in the Bible)
• Faith + Grace = Salvation + Works (is what I believe to be the truth where works are a byproduct of salvation because it is supernaturally produced by the Holy Spirit and God's grace. The only role one play's in the equation, is having faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and not quenching His grace. See also Ephesians 2:8-10 which says "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God— not because of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them". If we use this model it also makes perfect sense why Jesus would say "you shall know them by their fruits" in Mathew 7:16-20.)

• Faith + Grace = Salvation (What you were implying in your previous comments and the reason why I wrote this reply)

Personally, even though I am no anabaptist, I believe that the anabaptist's to do the best job of describing this born-again reality in their theology. "Anabaptist denominations, such as the Mennonites, teach that "True faith entails a new birth, a spiritual regeneration by God's grace and power; 'believers' are those who have become the spiritual children of God." In Anabaptist theology, the pathway to salvation is "marked not by a forensic understanding of salvation by 'faith alone', but by the entire process off repentance, self-denial, faith rebirth and obedience." Those who wish to tarry this path receive baptism after the New Birth. Anabaptists heavily emphasize the importance of obedience in the salvation journey of a believer."

Btw I love your username. Have you ever read the 'The Pilgrims Progress' by John Bunyan? Outside of the Bible it is one of my favorite books and as Christian it is highly beneficial to read it. I highly recommend. Anyways, in the modern editions there is a chapter called "Signs of Grace" which speaks about this born-again reality and the outward manifestations of the working of the Holy Spirit in the life of believer. In other words, it talks about the 'fruit bearing' and how this superior to the verbal claims a person might make in saying that they are a follower of Christ. But before, I get hammered with, "this is a form of works-based salvation", I would like to stress 3 things. 1) John Bunyan who wrote this, was protestant that rebelled strongly against Catholicism (as it is works-based) 2) There is a chapter in Pilgrims Progress where a character named Ignorant tires to earn his salvation through him own good works and merit as opposed to trusting fully in the work that was done on the cross by Christ. In the very last chapter, we see Ignorant being led to hell. 3) No one is saved 'by' their good works (e.g. helping grandma cross the street) but rather saved 'FOR' them. How can you be powered by the battery of God's grace and not produce good fruit? You are literally indwelt by the Holy Spirit!

Anyways, I hope this makes sense! I'm not attacking anything you wrote (I agree with most of it actually) - rather I am just adding what I think you might have left out. Let me know what you think! All the best! God bless!

 

[John Mullally]

Calvinism isn't Calvin. As for 1 Timothy 2:4, we have, as @Clare73 is known to say, already litigated that and will not be re-litigating it again here.

1 Timothy 2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,​

The numerous red flags are, among other things, the notion that God must bow to circumstances beyond his control: Causation by mere chance;

“God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, ‘What doest thou?’ Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so.” – A.W. Tozer, The Knowledge of the Holy: The Attributes of God​

The obscene will of fallen man's dead spiritual self at enmity with Christ in and of himself to want Christ in any valid measure;

Why would Jesus universally draw people to come to Him for rest if they could not. Jesus is not a trickster.

Matthew 11;28 Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.​

The uselessness of a some of Christ's payment for sin; All that and more, not to mention, bad exegesis of passages that are necessarily called "plain reading" while the opposite applies to the Calvinist's favorites; and so on. Just sayin'...

Jesus provided a ransom for all men per 1 Timothy 2:6. It is received by faith (Hebrews 4:1-3).

 

[Mark Quayle]

“God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, ‘What doest thou?’ Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so.” – A.W. Tozer, The Knowledge of the Holy: The Attributes of God

I would rate Tozer's 'post' a winner, but for the one statement, that to my mind counters his own statement that man's choices fulfill God's sovereign will, when he says that God's eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make. Tozer, apparently, like you, thinks 'free' means it is only up to man. I think it's pretty obvious that 'free' refers to man freely choosing according to his own inclinations, which is the only way we freely choose. Always. Even if only for that instant.

It's also pretty obvious, that if man can do anything, including choosing, uncaused, then causation by mere chance is invoked.

Why would Jesus universally draw people to come to Him if they could not. Jesus is not a trickster.
Matthew 11;28 Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.

Who told you he universally draws all? Define your terms. What is he talking about when he says, "will draw all men unto myself" (John 12:32). Can you demonstrate how the drawing is without specificity and differing effectiveness, some even being repulsed by it?

Jesus provided a ransom for all men per 1 Timothy 2:6. Its up to men to receive it.

Rather obviously, per Calvinism, if anyone chooses Christ (as per John 3:16), indeed he did provide them the needed ransom. Did I say it is not up to men to receive it? If they are regenerated indeed they have received it, and will continue to choose Christ.

Is there really any need to give man that little little bit of uncaused choice? All our choices are caused. That does not deny freedom of choice. We always choose according to our inclinations.

Your focus is time sequence. Calvinism's is causation. God's grace.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Thanks for clarifying that the gospel preached in Luke 9:6 was not the same gospel preached in Acts 2.

You draw that conclusion because you have to.

I never said anything of the kind:

No, Peter began preaching the unveiled Gospel of Jesus Christ on the Day of Pentecost.

The Gospel of the Kingdom was the veiled Gospel of Christ that centeres on Messianic Prophecy specific to Israel.

It is the same Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Just as these...


Genesis 3:15
King James Version

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


Genesis 12
King James Version

1 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.


...are the Gospel of Jesus Christ. But they are veiled. Understanding of how the Woman's Seed will crush Satan's head and all families of the earth would be blessed through Abraham was not given.

Abraham understood it as his seed, his offspring would be the means for blessing, but he did not understand that the Seed was singular:


Galatians 3:6-8
King James Version

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.


Paul explains this for those to whom the Mystery of the Gospel remains a mystery:


Galatians 3:14-16
King James Version

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


Still the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but it is veiled to the understanding of man until it is revealed by the Spirit sent down from Heaven, that is, the Comforter ministering in the unique ministry he performs in the hearts and minds of natural men today (John 16:7-9, 1 Peter 1:12):


1 Corinthians 2:7-10
King James Version

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.


So too, when Christ and the disciples preached the Gospel of the Kingdom—it was the veiled Gospel of Christ. That He would die in the stead of the sinner was not understood by the disciples until Pentecost.

That is why Peter preaches the Gospel of Christ to his brethren.

That you want to focus on how Pete preached it is unfortunate, but the Gospel of Christ is still preached to Jews that day, that is, the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

There is only One Gospel.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

Let's now go into what Peter was actually preaching in early Acts.

I already posted it, and you ignored it because your heart's desire is to teach a gospel of works.

Go back and quote the Scripture given to you and then make your presentation as to why what I have already said is in error.

Do you think there is a difference between preaching

• In wickedness, you have killed your Messiah but God raised him from the dead as a sign that he is truly the Son of God, so repent of that wicked deed and be water baptized, and you will be saved from your sins in the future. (Acts 2:36 Acts 3:14-21 Acts 5:30 Acts 7:52)

Why would you think water baptism is what Peter means?

Because your system of belief demands it?

You should stick with what Scripture teaches:


Acts 2:38
King James Version

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


What Baptism was Peter taught that had to take place in order for him to receive the Promised Spirit (Ezekiel 36:27) taught by Christ (John 14:15-23)?


Acts 1:4-5
King James Version

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.


Peter is told John baptized with water, but he (and they, the disciples) would be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Not with water.

Look at this again:


Acts 2:38
King James Version

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


To be baptized in the Name of Jesus is to be identified with Jesus.

Did Peter forget what Christ had told him just a couple of days before?

No, it is not Peter that has forgotten, it is those who impose water baptism as Peter's intent in his preaching.

And that is error.

Christ contrasts water baptism with the Baptism with the Holy Ghost, as does John:


Matthew 3:11-12
King James Version

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


Two baptisms that lead to two resurrection, one unto life, and one unto damnation.

Now let's see Cornelius' baptism:


Acts 10:37-44
King James Version

37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.


Again we see Peter preaching the Gospel of JEsus Christ, and what does He conclude with?


43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.


And we can include the Prophets as a witness of the Gospel.

Now let's see Peter's commentary on this event:


Acts 11:13-18
King James Version

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


Understand?

Peter remembered the Word of the Lord, how that John baptized with water but they would be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

When did Christ say that?

At the beginning of the Church, the Body of Christ, made up of individual believers eternally indwelt by the Holy Spirit as Christ taught them they would be.

And when Paul repeats John's prophecy...


Acts 19:2-4
King James Version

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.


...he doesn't ask them if they have been water baptized, but whether they had received the Holy Ghost since they believed.

And what does he say? That they are to believe on Jesus Christ. Just as Peter states in Acts 11:17 that those who believed received the Holy Spirit.

So make a case that Peter is saying "...be water baptized to receive the Holy Ghost."

Christ is the Baptizer, and He baptizes with the Holy Ghost and with Fire. Eternal Life, or Eternal Damnation.

While we do water baptize disciples to identify them with Christ, we do not impart the Holy Ghost, the Baptizer does this.


Continued...

versus

• Christ has died for your sins and rose again on the 3rd day for your justification. (1 Cor 15:1-4)

It's not a versus: Christ's Death, Burial, and Resurrection is in all of Peter's preaching.

He is preaching the One Gospel of Jesus Christ, and he is calling men to believe on Jesus Christ.

This is what we call "keeping the commandments of Christ."

He is keeping the mandate given him and keeping the teachings given him.

You will never be able to impose anything but believing in John 3:16. Kick against the goads all you like, what God has commanded men is that they believe in His Son.

Period.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

I am asking you to read those verses in 1 John that I have provided you.

I have done so, yet you refuse to address my response.

Now please answer the question:


P1LGR1M said: ↑

So we are not saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves? It is, as you say—of works?

Please answer.

Read them literally, without trying to insert Paul into them, and tell me what is John teaching.

Is he teaching salvation as faith alone, without works of any kind?

Tell me.

I have told you, John is not teaching Eternal Salvation, he is teaching about Progressive Sanctification.

John 3:16 tells men how they are saved, the First Epistle of John tells believers how they are to live after being saved, and gives warning to those who fail to exhibit the characteristics of people who have been saved,


P1LGR1M said: ↑

So we are not saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves? It is, as you say—of works?

Please answer.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Dear @P1LGR1M

Very very interesting comments you just made. Most of what you are saying is spot on. It's what you are 'not saying' or leaving out that I would like to discuss further.

Thanks, Pielun, it is always a great joy to me to receive a post offered in what I see brotherly love and having the grace of God attached to it.

You've created a lot of work for me, lol, but hey—I bring it on myself, right? lol

Firstly, and I see this way to often, how can a person talk about the act of being saved by the Lord's divine grace without even mentioning the need to be born-again? The need to be born-again is absolutely quintessential and often rather unfortunately glossed over.

I agree wholeheartedly.

That is why my entrance into this discussion began with what I see as probably the greatest error of Calvinism: that men have always been born again in order that they might have faith.

The reality of Regeneration is that it did not begin until Pentecost. If you google "Were Men Born Again Before Pentecost" you can probably find more of my rabble-rousing efforts on a number of forums.

Regeneration is the result of being born of God. That birth is not a reformation of a man's spirit, a turning over of a new leaf, but as you have noted in your own statement, it is the New Creature.

We are born of God when we receive His Life, which is Eternal Life. It is the Life that no man, including Adam has ever been born with in the physical realm.

And we see that the Son of God was sent that He might bestow this life through belief in Him. I am sure you are familiar with John 3 enough that I can begin at v.9 to show that Nicodemus asks how men can be born again, and the Lord's response is that He, Jesus Christ, has to be lifted up, or in other words, die on the Cross.

That was a necessary step for men to be born again:


John 3:9-16
King James Version

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


So first, we see that the Death of Christ was necessary.

Secondly, we see that the Resurrection of Christ was necessary:


1 Peter 1:3
King James Version

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


Third, there is the need for what we just saw in these two passages, the Death and Resurrection of Christ—the Gospel:


1 Peter 1:20-23
King James Version

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.




That is the Who, how, when, and why of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and therefore the Who, how, when, and why of Eternal Redemption.

Because we know that the Gospel was Mystery, truth not revealed in to the sons of men in past ages and generations, we can limit Regeneration to this Age and understand that it is revealed to men by the Comforter.

Men were "saved" in the Old Testament, not because they were born again that they might have faith, but because they were temporally justified based on their response to the revelation that was given to them. But the righteousness that arose from their obedience could not bring about Eternal Redemption, only the death of the Savior in the stead of the sinner could do that (Hebrews 9:12).

They, the Old Testament Saints, died in faith but were not made perfect/complete in regards to remission of sins (Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:38-39).

They died awaiting their sins to be forgiven in an eternal context rather than simply a temporal context (Hebrews 10:1-4; Hebrews 10:10-14).

We see examples of temporal justification given in Luke 18:10-14 and Luke 1:5-6, so we see that men had the ability to "keep the Law," and to know their need of Savior God, but they could still not meet the standard required for righteousness in regards to Holy God.

Thus, there is none righteous, no, not one.

So when we read about temporal justification in Romans 4 and James 2 we see another failure of the Reformers and the disastrous consequences it has had in the Body of Christ (and to be fair, this stands head and shoulders above the consequences wrought by Catholicism). The failure? Failure to distinguish properly between a passage that speaks about justification rather than Eternal Salvation and Eternal Redemption.

This is why, when "Faith Alone" and Faith and works are debated, in the minds of most in Modern Christendom they are debating whether men are saved by faith alone or by faith and works.

Both are wrong: men are, throughout Biblical History beginning in the Garden—saved by Grace Alone.

Men are not saved by believing, they are saved by grace. Believing is a result of God's grace and His direct intervention in the lives of people who, of themselves—simply have no inherent ability to understand their need for Savior God.

Show me one person we consider saved in Scripture and we can back up and see the Revelation of the Will of God to that person.

Today the gospel of salvation by faith alone is very popular, but very much in error.

Eternal Redemption required the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Christ, that He might forgive in an eternal context those sins committed in the past (Romans 3:26; Hebrews 9:15). Eternal Redemption required the unveiling of the Gospel of Christ through the Holy Ghost, the Comforter.

Salvation is wholly the work of God, which is why He is called the Author and Finisher (completer) of our faith.

We love Him because He first loved us.

So to end this section of the response, I agree, Regeneration stands at the top of the list of Doctrines we should be fully understanding. Because, as you have pointed out, if men cannot enter or see the Kingdom of God apart from being born again, I'd think that would be a priority on our list of understanding.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour said that “except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3). That is, more bluntly, if you are not born again, you are going to hell.

That is precisely what He is teaching.

There are two groups of people spoken of in Scripture, and Two Resurrections.

If a man is not “born of God” and “regenerated” “he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (John 3:5). “Ye must be born again” (John 3:7). 1 Peter 1:23 similarly talks of “being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of Incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.” Just by glancing over these few and limited scriptures, the importance of being born again in relation to a person’s salvation is quickly grasped as to be vital.

Agreed.

I will say that you have charged me with "leaving things unsaid," but if you review even this thread you will find that this is a common teaching in my responses to most of the threads I am involved in.

When we understand Regeneration we can better understand other Bible Doctrines.

And so, the questions that we need to soberly ask is: how can one be sure that they are born again?

We are told numerous qualities of believers and what identifies those who are born again.

Do we live in an unbroken pattern of sin that shows no change in the heart and mind of the one professing to be saved?

Are we in agreement with what the Word of God teaches?

Do we assemble with the brethren?

So we preach and teach Jesus Christ in whatever capacity we have at any given stage of growth in our walk with the Lord?

Do we love the brethren?

Do we have a concern for the Lost?


But this I will say, we have to keep in mind that every believer is born again pretty ignorant, and pretty immature. While you might have those who "sit on a pew" for years who realize they have never really been born again who will have an advantage of years of sitting under the Word, I think most are going to begin their walk as babes.

Secondly, we have to recognize the extreme amount of false doctrine that has become popular even in what we would view as "traditional" denominations having fairly sound doctrine. Some people will be born again in groups that stunt the growth of new believers.

Third, we have to acknowledge the consequence of indoctrination: many people will "grow up in the church" and learn things that are not truth, but because of their long-term exposure to those teachings will have a tougher road to travel than someone like myself, who did not grow up in the church and was completely ignorant of the Bible and Christian teachings (something I am still regularly charged with, lol).

Fourth, we have to keep in mind that we are still in fallen flesh, and the ultimate end of our Redemption is the glorified body. It will not be until we receive those bodies that we will be saved out of the presence of sin. We are still going to sin after salvation, and that is expected of new believers every bit as much as poor behavior is expected from children.

So the many variables in our lives after salvation should be considered, and one of the easiest things to do is recognize sin in others but be completely blind to our own. When I was saved I thought drug use, alcoholism, cigarettes, etc. were my biggest problems. The Lord showed me fairly quickly that my biggest problem was what resided in my heart.

I still deal with that problem. While I would like to blame it on being Irish-American, lol, that excuse only goes so far.

One preacher said, "Give God at least as much time to fix your life as you took to mess it up."

I tell people that my postings are first and foremost a means of challenging my own doctrine, rather than the doctrine of others. If I am at fault in the doctrine I hold you can believe I want my brothers and sisters to call me out on it. That process has been, in my view, a very profitable effort, and I have learned quite a bit from my brethren, and am grateful for those who have cared enough to call me out.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

Further and fundamentally, what is it to be born again? A failure to ask these very questions, or to have them left unanswered or even ambiguously understood, could cost a person dearly and eternally should an incorrect assumption be made.

I am going to have to disagree with your assessment, because salvation is not our responsibility, that is the Power of God.

We are not going to keep the first person from being saved.

God has historically always given men and women the opportunity to be "saved" and historically we see a consistent Bible Principle that those who reject God's will do so of their own volition.

Pharaoh hardened his heart, for example, because of the Word delivered him.

Secondly, I doubt we are going to find many who can honestly say they understood Regeneration when they were saved. What they will all have in common is conviction of sin, righteousness, and judgment.

And it is God that delivers truth to the natural man, not us. We are merely Evangelical Plagiarists.

Did you understand Regeneration when you were saved?

Did you understand you were a sinner?

Did you understand that Jesus alone was righteous and you had to believe in Him?

Did you understand the reality of judgment, of Hell, and did you fear God that is able to destroy soul and body in Hell?

While God will use us for His salvific efforts, we do not bestow Eternal Redemption, it simply isn't ours to bestow. Only God is the Savior, and only He can receive credit for salvation.

Those who reject Christ, His Sacrifice, His Covenant, and the Spirit of Grace, the Comforter (and His efforts—will not be held unaccountable. Nor will they stand in judgment with those who sought their reconciliation with God through Christ, for they will stand alone and be accountable for their response to God's will.

And in this Age, it is far more important that we understand that it is God that saves because as the Writer of Hebrews states in Hebrews 10:28-29, those who reject God's will in this Age will be held to a higher degree of judgment than those that rejected the Law.

The modern notion of "free will" is a false doctrine that lends credence to the teaching that men can save men, and that men can save themselves.

The Gospel was a Mystery in all Ages prior to this one (which began at Pentecost), and no man can enter the Kingdom of God apart from being born again, and no man can be born again apart from the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Christ, and the fulfillment of the Promises of God concerning the New Covenant men are to be in relationship with Him through. And no man can know the truth of the Gospel except that the Spirit reveals it them. The natural man simply cannot receive or perceive the spiritual things of God.

That was true in the Old Testament, and even more true in this Age.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

The very moment a person places their complete trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, they are baptized with the "Holy Spirit" (Matthew 3:11, Acts 1:5). This is in direct fulfillment to the prophecy spoken by Ezekiel in 36:26 when he spoke and said "a new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh". We need this new heart because "the heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" (Jeramiah 17:9).

Actually, the Promise of the Father is found in Ezekiel 36:27.

The "new heart" and "new spirit" refer to man's "thoughts and intents," if you will. It is God placing His Spirit within us that provides us with the new mentality. He causes us to walk in His statutes and to keep His judgments.

This is what Christ refers to in Acts 1:4-5 when He refers to what He had taught them:


John 14:16-23
King James Version

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


Christ is prophesying of the Eternal Indwelling of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

When He, the Comforter comes, He will convict of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:7-9).

He will not just be with the disciples, filling them for the purpose of ministry as He has always done among men (for purposes of ministry as Prophet, Priest, King, and Warrior), but He will be in them.

That is the promise of Ezekiel 36:22-27 and is fulfilled when men come into relationship with God through the New Covenant, which was established with the Death of Jesus Christ.


Hebrews 10:15-18
King James Version

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.



Continued...

 

[John Mullally]

“God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, ‘What doest thou?’ Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so.” – A.W. Tozer, The Knowledge of the Holy: The Attributes of God

I would rate Tozer's 'post' a winner, but for the one statement, that to my mind counters his own statement that man's choices fulfill God's sovereign will, when he says that God's eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make. Tozer, apparently, like you, thinks 'free' means it is only up to man. I think it's pretty obvious that 'free' refers to man freely choosing according to his own inclinations, which is the only way we freely choose. Always. Even if only for that instant.

It's also pretty obvious, that if man can do anything, including choosing, uncaused, then causation by mere chance is invoked.

Freely choosing means being able to choose from available options.

Johsua 24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”​

Why would Jesus universally draw people to come to Him for rest if they could not. Jesus is not a trickster.

Matthew 11;28 Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.

Who told you he universally draws all? Define your terms. What is he talking about when he says, "will draw all men unto myself" (John 12:32). Can you demonstrate how the drawing is without specificity and differing effectiveness, some even being repulsed by it?

“Come to me, all of you who are weary” is an open invitation to all. I don’t need to define terms.

Jesus provided a ransom for all men per 1 Timothy 2:6. It is received by faith (Hebrews 4:1-3).

Rather obviously, per Calvinism, if anyone chooses Christ (as per John 3:16), indeed he did provide them the needed ransom. Did I say it is not up to men to receive it? If they are regenerated indeed they have received it, and will continue to choose Christ.

Is there really any need to give man that little little bit of uncaused choice? All our choices are caused. That does not deny freedom of choice. We always choose according to our inclinations.

Your focus is time sequence. Calvinism's is causation. God's grace.

Pertaining to: “If they are regenerated indeed they have received it, and will continue to choose Christ”. There are no scriptures that says that man's will is not involved in regeneration. If man can resist the Holy Spirit (Act 7:51), then man can resist or cooperate in the work of the Holy Spirit in man (regeneration).

Jesus paying the ransom for all, the conviction of the Holy Spirit (who convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgement), available faith, and the promises in God's word are examples of God's grace to men. Faith comes by hearing the word of God (Romans 10:17).

 

[P1LGR1M]

There is none good - which is why you need this new heart of flesh aka being being born-again. This is why 2 Corinthians 5:17 says "therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new".

I agree. It is particularly worthy of note that we see that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself (2 Corinthians 5:17-19).

One of the most important lessons we learn is that keeping the Law never saved anyone, nor was it meant to. Being baptized into Christ was God's plan for His children from Day 6. He never intended for man to be in the Garden forever.

Adam had access to everlasting life which was physical only, and was cast out of the Garden that he not live forever in his physical body.

Eternal Life is bestowed in the New Birth because we are immersed into God and partake of His divine nature which is Eternal.

We do not become gods, because of this, but we do receive of His Life.

Paul call this the "new man" and it is mentioned through the New Testament. Ephesians 4:24 tells us to "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness". Now, just to clarify we play ZERO role in our salvation as it is God who draws us to Him ("while we were yet sinners" mind you) and the Son who washes us clean with His blood. Even now that we are His, there is nothing that we can do to even deserve or earn the grace and mercy that He has shown us.

Again, I agree, and that goes for us trying to "keep" our salvation:


1 Peter 1:3-5
King James Version

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


Salvation is wholly of Holy God, from start to finish:


Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


So we must be very careful we do not fall into the very error John addresses in His First Epistle, and think we of ourselves can attain to a sinlessness that will make God our debtor.

We will either be obedient to the Gospel and believe that Jesus Christ died for us that He might bestow Eternal Life, or we will look to other means of eternal life as men often do.

I doubt very much there are many as righteous in our day as these two:


Luke 1:5-6
King James Version

5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.


Yet their righteousness was not enough.

They were still in need of the righteousness of Christ:


Romans 3:23-26
King James Version

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


Abraham was justified, declared righteous because he believed God when God told him he would have a son of his own loins from a wife beyond bearing and that all families of the earth would be blessed through him.

But Abraham died in faith not receiving those promises (Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:38-39).

Abraham died still needing the imputed righteousness of Christ, Who alone was righteous according to the standard of Holy God.

If no man or woman of faith lived in such a way in the Old Testament that they might be redeemed in an eternal context, it boggles the mind to think there are people today who think they can add to the Death of Christ, His Resurrection, and the Gospel.

While we remain in this flesh our greatest righteousnesses will still be filthy rags when measured according to the righteousness of Christ.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

However, to say that the "new man" created in "righteousness and true holiness" lives a life of continual, habitual and unrepentant sin is wrong.

Who says that?

Really, who says that?

Who teaches that born-again believers can live a life of continual, habitual, and unrepentant sin?

Do Christians sin? Yes. Can they sin to the point where they lose their salvation? No.

But they can lose their physical lives:


Acts 5
King James Version

1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.


1 Corinthians 11:28-30
King James Version

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.


The wages of sin have always been death. That still applies to Christians. They can lose their physical lives if they live in sin.

So what is our responsibility?


Galatians 6:1
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.


How about when we recognize sin in our own lives?


1 John 2
King James Version

2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:


I have to say, the argument that there are Christians teaching license to sin is a false argument.

I have never been in the first fellowship where this is taught, and I have never personally spoken with someone that thinks like that. I am sure, given the idiocies of doctrine that prevail in these days that there might be some people like that but it doesn't change the fact that Christian Doctrine makes it clear men are saved by grace alone, not of works—period:


Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Titus 3:4-5
King James Version

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


Hebrews 10:14-18
King James Version

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


The primary reason we see folk thinking they must save themselves is a failure to distinguish the context of relevant passages. If one thinks that a passage dealing with Sanctification equates to Eternal Reedemption they fail to understand Bible Doctrine.

And even worse, when one fails to distinguish between Progressive SAnctification (in which we very much play a part) and Positional Sanctification (in which only Christ plays a part) they will inevitably impose into Scripture doctrine that doesn't exist.

So at this point, I will ask this: are you trusting Christ for your salvation? Was His death in your stead enough to bestow remission of sins in an eternal context, and Eternal Redemption? Or do you think that was just a starting point and, if you live righteously—you will be eternally saved?


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

However, to say that the "new man" created in "righteousness and true holiness" lives a life of continual, habitual and unrepentant sin is wrong.

Plain and simple - it cannot be.

I agree, for the most part, but—we have to keep in mind that all believers grow at differing levels.

Have you committed no sin since you were saved?


Continued...