What is wrong with Calvinism ?

[Jesus is YHWH]

The OP demonstrates no specific Biblical error in Calvin's writings.

Assertion without demonstration is without merit.

Calvin quotes Augustine 100’s of times in his institutes . His ideas are Augustine’s not his own . Augustine’s ideas came from Gnosticism and Platonism. Those are the historical facts . The denial of free will originated with Augustine’s influence from Gnosticism as did his teaching on evil , the flesh and God as it’s author . It’s Paganism to the core and unbiblical .

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[misput]

Assertion without demonstration is without merit.

When scriptural demonstration is presented you ignore it. So how can that work?

 

[Clare73]

Calvin quotes Augustine 100’s of times in his institutes . His ideas are Augustine’s not his own . Augustine’s ideas came from Gnosticism and Platonism. Those are the historical facts . The denial of free will originated with Augustine’s influence from Gnosticism as did his teaching on evil , the flesh and God as it’s author . It’s Paganism to the core and unbiblical .

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These are irrelevant assertions until you demonstrate them.

All that matters is your demonstration of specific Biblical error.

 

[Clare73]

When scriptural demonstration is presented you ignore it. So how can that work?

Please demonstrate your assertion.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

These are irrelevant assertions until you demonstrate them.

All that matters is your demonstration of specific Biblical error.

Gnosticism is error and the apostle’s and ECFs refuted it until it was accepted by Augustine and his followers

 

[QvQ]

The gnostics were prevalent before Augustine, Aquinas, Luther and Calvin.
Aquinas was particularly hostile to the gnostics.
I thought the gnostic was a heresy in the Church. Familiarity with a doctrine does not mean a person is an adherent as many posters on this thread are familiar with Calvin or perhaps, even Catholicism but are hostile to the doctrine, arguing against it.
There weren't any gnostics for a long time. Augustine, Aquinas may have won that war.

 

[zoidar]

Did the early church support Biblical free will--the ability to voluntarily choose what one prefers, likes, or
did the church support the philosophical free will of Pelagius--the ability to make (do) all moral choices?

The church denied Romans 5:18. . .are you sure about that?

I will say I haven't studied the Early Church that much so I go with what those who have say.

"Unlike Augustine, Pelagius knew Greek. Pelagius did not teach that man can save himself. He only taught that a man can live a righteous life via free will choice. The idea that man can save himself is what came from Augustine’s accusations against him, as Calvinists do with Arminians today when they accuse them of teaching “works salvation”. True Pelagianism is truth according to what the early Church taught, not as Augustine described it. What Augustine described is without a doubt heresy, but it’s not what Pelagius actually taught. This is evident in the writings of Pelagius, as well as in the fact that the councils could find no fault in his teachings 2 times that he appeared before them in his own defense. When he was finally marked as a heretic the third time around, it was when he could not be present to defend himself (in Tunisia where Augustine resided) and Augustine and Jerome were present to misrepresent his position."

Pelagius has been falsely judged by his critics​

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I will say I haven't studied the Early Church that much so I go with what those who have say.

"Unlike Augustine, Pelagius knew Greek. Pelagius did not teach that man can save himself. He only taught that a man can live a righteous life via free will choice. The idea that man can save himself is what came from Augustine’s accusations against him, as Calvinists do with Arminians today when they accuse them of teaching “works salvation”. True Pelagianism is truth according to what the early Church taught, not as Augustine described it. What Augustine described is without a doubt heresy, but it’s not what Pelagius actually taught. This is evident in the writings of Pelagius, as well as in the fact that the councils could find no fault in his teachings 2 times that he appeared before them in his own defense. When he was finally marked as a heretic the third time around, it was when he could not be present to defend himself (in Tunisia where Augustine resided) and Augustine and Jerome were present to misrepresent his position."

Pelagius has been falsely judged by his critics​

Agree Calvinist have made him their scapegoat. Pelagius was aligned with the early church’s beliefs until Augustine came along .

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I will say I haven't studied the Early Church that much so I go with what those who have say.

"Unlike Augustine, Pelagius knew Greek. Pelagius did not teach that man can save himself. He only taught that a man can live a righteous life via free will choice. The idea that man can save himself is what came from Augustine’s accusations against him, as Calvinists do with Arminians today when they accuse them of teaching “works salvation”. True Pelagianism is truth according to what the early Church taught, not as Augustine described it. What Augustine described is without a doubt heresy, but it’s not what Pelagius actually taught. This is evident in the writings of Pelagius, as well as in the fact that the councils could find no fault in his teachings 2 times that he appeared before them in his own defense. When he was finally marked as a heretic the third time around, it was when he could not be present to defend himself (in Tunisia where Augustine resided) and Augustine and Jerome were present to misrepresent his position."

Pelagius has been falsely judged by his critics​

Now the above are the historical facts . Revisionists - Augustinians/ Reformers made him their scapegoat.

 

[zoidar]

STRAWMAN. . .
.

I don't know if it is. If I were to abandon my doctrines I would be just as saved. Mark says you can't abandon the "doctrines of grace", that sounds to me like God is supernaturally keeping the genuine Calvinist in his doctrines. I would maybe had said it is like making the doctrines of grace equally important with salvation. Does that work with you?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I don't know if it is. If I were to abandon my doctrines I would be just as saved. Mark says you can't abandon the "doctrines of grace", that sounds to me like God is supernaturally keeping the genuine Calvinist in his doctrines. I would maybe had said it is like making the doctrines of grace equally important with salvation. Does that work with you?

That is the stronghold with Calvinism . Spurgeon taught tulip is the gospel . He is right about one thing it’s the gospel alright, false gospel as per Galatians 1 that Paul anathema.

 

[zoidar]

Agree Calvinist have made him their scapegoat. Pelagius was aligned with the early church’s beliefs until Augustine came along .

I haven't studied it, but that is what I got from David Bercot.

 

[QvQ]

"He only taught that a man can live a righteous life via free will choice"
After the man is saved or before?
I read Palagius as asserting that any man, being basically good, can freely will himself into righteousness without Christ or God.
The idea that a man can live a righteous life via free will choice.
That makes a man who is helpless in the face of substance abuse, the circumstances of his birth, the lack of moral teachings in his environment is capable of by an act of free will to pull himself up by his bootstraps. Every failure in his life becomes the weaklings fault because he, through his will didn't make the right choices, maybe choices that were not even available to him based on various contingencies.
Is that true about Palagius?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I haven't studied it, but that is what I got from David Bercot.

It’s historical facts in Christianity. Calvinists are revisionists . I know I was one once upon a time for 4 decades . I listened to what Calvinists said and taught , not what history actually declared . Calvinists spin things , twist things and change the meaning of simple things like world, all men , everyone , all inhabitants of the world , all the world etc….. to mean the elect . It’s brainwashing .

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

"He only taught that a man can live a righteous life via free will choice"
After the man is saved or before?
I read Palagius as asserting that any man, being basically good, can freely will himself into righteousness without Christ or God.
The idea that a man can live a righteous life via free will choice.
That makes a man who is helpless in the face of substance abuse, the circumstances of his birth, the lack of moral teachings in his environment is capable of by an act of free will to pull himself up by his bootstraps. Every failure in his life becomes the weaklings fault because he, through his will didn't make the right choices, maybe choices that were not even available to him based on various contingencies.
Is that true about Palagius?

Quote Pelagius writings saying that not some caricature of his teachings .

 

[zoidar]

"He only taught that a man can live a righteous life via free will choice"
After the man is saved or before?
I read Palagius as asserting that any man, being basically good, can freely will himself into righteousness without Christ or God.
The idea that a man can live a righteous life via free will choice.
That makes a man who is helpless in the face of substance abuse, the circumstances of his birth, the lack of moral teachings in his environment is capable of by an act of free will to pull himself up by his bootstraps. Every failure in his life becomes the weaklings fault because he, through his will didn't make the right choices, maybe choices that were not even available to him based on various contingencies.
Is that true about Palagius?

"Pelagius himself said, “I anathematize the man who either thinks or says that the grace of God, whereby ‘Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners,’ is not necessary not only for ever hour and for every moment, but also for every act of our lives: and those who endeavor to dis-annul it deserve everlasting punishment.”[31]"

Pelagius has been falsely judged by his critics​

 

[QvQ]

"By positing that man could choose between good and evil without divine intercession, Pelagianism brought into question Christianity's core doctrine of Jesus' act of substitutionary atonement to expiate the sins of mankind."
Wikipedia

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

"Pelagius himself said, “I anathematize the man who either thinks or says that the grace of God, whereby ‘Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners,’ is not necessary not only for ever hour and for every moment, but also for every act of our lives: and those who endeavor to dis-annul it deserve everlasting punishment.”[31]"

Pelagius has been falsely judged by his critics​

I also made him the Calvinist boogie man when I was blinded by those doctrines . I’m so glad Jesus delivered me out of that religious system .

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

By positing that man could choose between good and evil without divine intercession, Pelagianism brought into question Christianity's core doctrine of Jesus' act of substitutionary atonement to expiate the sins of mankind.[91]
I haven't studied Pelagius but I thought he taught righteousness without Christ, works without Grace and all men judged for their sin. Personal responsibility was paramount. And men would be judged for all their sins. No expiation of sin.

No that’s the Calvinists caricature of the man .

 

[zoidar]

You're confusing "seeing" (knowing, being acquainted with) the kingdom of God
with "being" in the kingdom of God.

I think that is the same thing "seeing" the kingdom of God and "being" in the kingdom of God. If you have read my prior posts in this thread you know how I reason.

Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
— John 3:3

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
— John 3:5

Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
— John 3:7

Born of the Spirit means "see life"/be saved. Like I tried to show you.

Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”
— John 8:51

"See death" = experience death
"See life" = experience life

Btw, I read you post wrong before, but I hope I have if not before, showed you now what I mean.