What is wrong with Calvinism ?

[zoidar]

Are you saying that Freewill IS the Spirit of God? Or exactly what, are you saying, is uncaused?

Life/awareness is uncaused. Only God has life, breathing it into us. How do I know what life/awareness is? It is what it means to have life.

Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
— Genesis 2:7

Let me try this on. You admit that if we have a gift God gives us, he caused us to have the gift? But if he gave us the Holy Spirit, that gift is not caused, though it be caused that we have it. Thus, you reason, anything God gives us is the same as the Holy Spirit, and thus not caused? Is the life and breath we have not caused?

No, not saying everything God gives us is the same as the Holy Spirit. Why?

Having life within, being alive is a gift to us, but what is life, what is being alive? Only God has life. God breathed that life into man. Living beings are created, but life is, it's not created, it's uncaused, but the giving of it to man is caused by God. And that life has free will.

God can create anything eternal he pleases to, that is, with no end, but if he creates something, it has a beginning. We are eternal only in that we will live forever as part of the Body of Christ, one with God. God caused that by creating us.

God can, sure! But I don't think that is explaining how God does it. And the souls going into judgement, aren't they created eternal as well?

Btw, why can't a caused, eternal being have free will from your view? I don't get that. Maybe you already told why, would you then mind repeating?

 

[RickReads]

Just chiming in (I haven't read anything so far):

Question: After 2778 posts and 139 pages of intense debate, has a consensus or major conclusions been reached? Has a stalemate been reached?

Now I'm unfollowing the thread again (but feel free to quote this post so I receive the notification)

The Calvinist side has no answers so I would hardly call it a stalemate. The best they can do is accuse us of misrepresenting their views and I have shown that to be a false accusation.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Augustine, Luther and Calvin taught original sin.
Aquinas taught original sins as the lack of original justice, means the souls have been spiritually corrupted, and being impossible not to sin.
That is because we are heirs to Adam in East of Eden. It is impossible for us not to sin because, Aquinas first stated, God's grace was withdrawn. We could not be in accordance with God's will without His Grace.
I don't believe I am going to accuse all of those theologians of being gnostic heretics.

And it came from Augustine who was a Manichaean/Gnostic and also Platonism, He majored in rhetoric in college. He brought those ideas into the church with his denial of free will, evil/sin nature of the flesh( origin of sin/evil) and predestination. The church since the Apostles and until Augustine came on the scene denied those false teachings of his that came from outside of scripture as their origin . It’s typical cult mentality mixing truth with error the way of the devil himself . Augustine was evil and had those who disagreed with him persecuted just like Luther and Calvin did who were his pupils / students . The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree .

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

The Calvinist side has no answers so I would hardly call it a stalemate. The best they can do is accuse us of misrepresenting their views and I have shown that to be a false accusation.

Indeed it mocks the very nature and character of God who is first and foremost Love, Loving not hate and hateful. Meticulous determinism /fatalism is unbiblical and makes God the author of evil/sin. Its a corrupt belief system that is an assault on the very character of the God of the Bible.

And now that I'm on the outside looking in after 40 years I can see it for what it really is- heresy. Just like a JW who comes out of their false system of religion.

 

[Clare73]

The problem with Calvinism is that it's not Biblically defensible

Contraire. . .

You set Scripture against itself rather than reconciling it to itself.
God does not contradict himself in his word, and your setting it against itself is thereby a de facto misunderstanding of it.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Contraire. . .

Scripture does not contradict itself.

Calvinism does .

next

 

[Clare73]

Nope, not if you are wrong. Or are you never wrong about scripture?

Only when demonstrated, not just asserted, to be so.

Assertions must be Biblically demonstrated to have any merit.
Talk is cheap.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Only when demonstrated, not just asserted, to be so.

Assertions must be Biblically demonstrated to have any merit.
Talk is cheap.

and calvinsm is the cheapest talk in religion.

 

[Clare73]

It’s origins are from Augustine who was Manichaean and gnostic and brought those false beliefs about free will and inability into the church . Until that time
the early church supported mans free will and ability to choose

Did the early church support Biblical free will--the ability to voluntarily choose what one prefers, likes, or
did the church support the philosophical free will of Pelagius--the ability to make (do) all moral choices?

and denied origin sin . Original sin is Gnosticism- Manichaeanism.

The church denied Romans 5:18. . .are you sure about that?

 

[Cockcrow]

God chooses us John 15:16 not the other way around, salvation is Gods will, not anything we do, our works are as filthy rags. call it calvinist or any other derogatory term but that's what the Bible says.

 

[RickReads]

and calvinsm is the cheapest talk in religion.

And your thread has become a monster. Congrats

 

[Clare73]

Balance is not "presented", balance is an emergent quality from putting all important parts into their place and seeing the complete picture, instead of just some parts (Arminians vs Calvinists).

Scripture is not governed by "emergent quality."

The poster implied it was a matter of equal weight. . .which I do not intend to defend nor debate.

 

[Clare73]

Just chiming in (I haven't read anything so far):

Question: After 2778 posts and 139 pages of intense debate, has a consensus or major conclusions been reached? Has a stalemate been reached?

Now I'm unfollowing the thread again (but feel free to quote this post so I receive the notification)

You'll have to check with the silent readers to see if anything has been resolved for any of them.

 

[Clare73]

Hm, but many do get those doctrines yet aren't Calvinists... I don't think it's only about getting, but agreeing.

To me this is just crazy. It feels like putting doctrines over salvation.

STRAWMAN. . .

Was Paul putting "doctrine over salvation" when he told Timothy to "watch his doctrine closely"
(1 Timothy 4:16)?

.

 

[Clare73]

And it came from Augustine who was a Manichaean/Gnostic and also Platonism, He majored in rhetoric in college. He brought those ideas into the church with his denial of free will, evil/sin nature of the flesh( origin of sin/evil) and predestination. The church since the Apostles and until Augustine came on the scene denied those false teachings of his that came from outside of scripture as their origin . It’s typical cult mentality mixing truth with error the way of the devil himself . Augustine was evil and had those who disagreed with him persecuted just like Luther and Calvin did who were his pupils / students . The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree .

20/20 hindsight. . .

 

[Clare73]

Scripture does not contradict itself.

Calvinism does .

Please demonstrate where "Calvinism" contradicts itself.

 

[Clare73]

and calvinsm is the cheapest talk in religion.

Assertion without demonstration is without merit.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

And your thread has become a monster. Congrats

Good the truth needs to be told. Amen.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Assertion without demonstration is without merit.

The OP demonstrates it as does church history where calvin/luther pawned their heresies from Augustine the Manichaean/Gnostic/Platonian ,

one must be a church history revisionist to deny the obvious truth above.

 

[Clare73]

The OP demonstrates it

The OP demonstrates no specific Biblical error in Calvin's writings.

Assertion without demonstration is without merit.