What is wrong with Calvinism ?

[Clare73]

Imputed guilt is just another way of saying born with a fleshly nature, which you are probably right, Adam had from the beginning, after all, he was flesh as well as spirit.
Neither one means we are born condemned

"The result of one trespass was condemnation for all men." (Romans 5:18)

of sin, totally depraved or sinful. These come about as we continue to live and hopefully are followed by being born again, which Jesus seems to indicate is a mystery and everyone seems to have a different experience.

 

[Clare73]

No, all you Calvins are.

Can't separate them from the bases of the conversation. . .i.e., Scripture.

 

[Clare73]

What is wrong with entertainment? You are sometimes entertaining, preachers are also and foolish as well, says the scripture.

That's better felt than tell't. . .so I'll leave it for you to sort out.

 

[RickReads]

Amen it’s been a passion of mine every since I came to know the Lord .

I got the bug from reading "Late great planet earth" when I was 14.

 

[Mark Quayle]

The mind of the flesh can't please God. That's true. But Romans 8 doesn't say the fleshly mind can't repent upon being convicted, just that the fleshly mind can't and doesn't want to follow the law of God. It can't keep Jesus commands (the 10 commandments of the law), it steals, lies, cheats, but upon conviction by the Holy Spirit it can repent and be regenerated - get a mind of the Spirit - that can and want to follow Jesus commands.

Not to be overly simplistic, but is not repenting "pleasing God"?

 

[zoidar]

.

 

[zoidar]

Not to be overly simplistic, but is not repenting "pleasing God"?

Not how it's used here. What's refered to here as pleasing to God is walking according to the Spirit, thus keeping the law, and for that obviously repentance is necessary.

so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
— Romans 8:4

 

[RickReads]

Not how it's used here. What's refered to here as pleasing to God is walking according to the Spirit, thus keeping the law, and for that obviously repentance is necessary.

so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
— Romans 8:4

The challenge of Paul to his followers is to keep the righteousness of the law which is another expression of his lessons on charity. Love God, Love your brother, love your neighbor, love your enemies. That is the way of walking according to the spirit.

 

[misput]

"The result of one trespass was condemnation for all men." (Romans 5:18)

Very disingenuous post.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Let`s try these,

1. Matthew 19:28
   And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
2. Titus 3:5
   Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The word regeneration appears twice in scripture. When Jesus used it, He was referring to the resurrection and the time when all judgment will be completed and all creation is going to be
renewed. When Paul used it He was referring to the moment when sins are washed away by the Spirit of Christ. Any other use of this term is unbiblical.

Which one was John 3:3? Or are you saying "born again" is not referring to regeneration, so John 3:3 doesn't count for a third reference to regeneration?

How about John 3:5— "born of water and of the Spirit"? If it is indeed the same regeneration, any use such references have for that regeneration is also valid and Biblical.

We have been through many such references on this thread. If the regeneration (whether it is called "regeneration" or "Born Again" or whatever is the same thing) is necessary for whatever such passages say it is necessary for, then those uses too are valid and Biblical. Can you show me why they are not? Merely because they weren't translated "regeneration" but some other term that means the same thing?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Very disingenuous post.

That's kind of serious charge to just lay out there. Can you back it up?

 

[Mark Quayle]

It was hysterical when I misunderstood it. . .not so funny otherwise.

I thought he was pretending to be above you by way of worthiness of being heard, just for the sake of humor.

 

[Mark Quayle]

So you think God commands people to do things that he has decreed they are unable to do, making him insincere in his claims. I see.

His claims? Which claims would you be referring to there?

 

[RickReads]

I thought he was pretending to be above you by way of worthiness of being heard, just for the sake of humor.

You really think that I`m that deep of a thinker? Weird.

 

[RickReads]

Which one was John 3:3? Or are you saying "born again" is not referring to regeneration, so John 3:3 doesn't count for a third reference to regeneration?

How about John 3:5— "born of water and of the Spirit"? If it is indeed the same regeneration, any use such references have for that regeneration is also valid and Biblical.

We have been through many such references on this thread. If the regeneration (whether it is called "regeneration" or "Born Again" or whatever is the same thing) is necessary for whatever such passages say it is necessary for, then those uses too are valid and Biblical. Can you show me why they are not? Merely because they weren't translated "regeneration" but some other term that means the same thing?

The new birth is about more than just the washing away of sin. It has a broader application than regeneration.

 

[misput]

Adam's guilt is imputed.

Adam's fallen nature is inherited.

Do you think Adam's imputed guilt and inherited fallen nature mean we are sinners at conception? Yes or no please.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Not how it's used here. What's refered to here as pleasing to God is walking according to the Spirit, thus keeping the law, and for that obviously repentance is necessary.

so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
— Romans 8:4

I don't understand. You are saying, if I read you right, that repentance is possible for one whose heart is still enslaved to sin, i.e. before regeneration, and that Romans 8:4 does not of itself deny that, no? That still does not allow one to claim it is possible, if other passages deny it.

Maybe I'm missing something. Haha I've been juggling many posts on several threads, on many interrupted visits to CF.

 

[misput]

That's kind of serious charge to just lay out there. Can you back it up?

The post is to Clare.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Do you think Adam's imputed guilt and inherited fallen nature mean we are sinners at conception? Yes or no please.

How long after sperm meets egg does the union of cells become a person? There is reason to believe, in fact, that the sin nature inherited from Adam is built into the DNA, or otherwise in some physical way inherited, and that it is passed down through the male, not the female. (No, I'm not saying it is so. It is not a doctrine I teach.)

Feelings concerning the matter are irrelevant. We don't know enough to even know how to feel about it, frankly.

 

[RickReads]

Do you think Adam's imputed guilt and inherited fallen nature mean we are sinners at conception? Yes or no please.

Get ready for a tap dance.