What is wrong with Calvinism ?

[Clare73]

One more time: What you are saying is true but what I am saying is for all this renewal and regeneration to be a renewal and regeneration indicates at some point in the past we had these attributes and lost them along the road of life. This is for me, more evidence
the doctrine of original sin (Calvinism) is a false doctrine.

The NT presents it as imputed guilt (Romans 5:12-18).

 

[RickReads]

One more time: What you are saying is true but what I am saying is for all this renewal and regeneration to be a renewal and regeneration indicates at some point in the past we had these attributes and lost them along the road of life. This is for me, more evidence the doctrine of original sin (Calvinism) is a false doctrine.

Interesting. I`ll have to think about that.

 

[RickReads]

I understand, and thanks. . .but human reasoning does not trump the divine revelation of the Scriptures in Matthew 19:16-21, which you do not address.

I don't know that the passage is relevant to the discussion.

 

[Clare73]

One more time: What you are saying is true but what I am saying is for all this renewal and regeneration to be a renewal and regeneration indicates at some point in the past we had these attributes and lost them along the road of life. This is for me, more evidence the doctrine of original sin (Calvinism) is a false doctrine.

Mankind possessed them in the Garden until the head and progenitor of mankind trashed and lost them, preferring the creature over the Creator.

 

[Clare73]

I don't know that the passage is relevant to the discussion.

It being an example of Jesus teaching under the old covenant because the new covenant, based on faith in his blood (Romans 3:25), could not be revealed before that blood was shed in sacrifice seems pretty obvious.

 

[iwbswiaihl]

According to NT apostolic teaching, the unregenerate heart, which is "without Holy Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for he cannot understand them, and they are foolishness to him," (1 Corinthians 2:14) and he wants no part of foolishness.

There is no seeding of an unregenerate heart because it has no Holy Spirit, which is what the parable shows.

Just a question about your statement: there is no seeding of an unregenerate heart because it has no Holy Spirit, if that were true how could anyone every be saved? Think on this statement: the living word of God is the seed which when planting in the heart and mind of the lost is the only way to be converted as a disciple of Christ. They either accept it, sometimes it is a process of time, others just continue to never accept the truths of the word. Is this a true statement or not?

Here is the Berean bible translation on Luke 8: 10And He said, “To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest, it is in parables, so that, ‘Seeing, they may not see;
and hearing, they may not understand.’ 11 And the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12And those along the road are those having heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, lest having believed, they should be saved. 13And those upon the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear; and these have no root, who believe for a time, and in time of testing fall away. 14And that having fallen into the thorns, these are those having heard, and moving along are choked under the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and do not mature. 15And that in the good soil, these are those who, having heard the word, keep it in a worthy and good heart and bring forth fruit by perseverance.

 

[RickReads]

It being an example of Jesus teaching under the old covenant because the new covenant, based on faith in his blood (Romans 3:25), could not be revealed before that blood was shed in sacrifice seems pretty obvious.

Matthew Mark and Jesus called it the gospel of the Kingdom. That has already been discussed.

 

[John Mullally]

I have seen some very physical expressions of faith where people were "slain" in the spirit and hit the floor. People running around the church and all kinds of hysterics. It's a way people express their faith and there is nothing wrong with that. It's just not my style. I'm more into somber prayer/meditation/reflection which many people find boring and not truly expressive of the joy they feel in Christ.

That's why I say to each his own.

You used the term convulsion which is used in the Gospels as being associated with demon possession. Quite offensive

 

[Clare73]

Just a question about your statement: there is no seeding of an unregenerate heart because it has no Holy Spirit, if that were true how could anyone every be saved?

The only way that anyone is ever saved, by sovereign regeneration of the Holy Spirit:

"You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'
The wind (breath, spirit) blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound (see its effects), but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." (John 3:7-8).

.

 

[RickReads]

You used the term convulsion which is used in the Gospels as being associated with demon possession. Quite offensive

I`ve known a lot of Charismatics, I hang with a church full of the pesky critters even now. They aren't near as judgemental of other Christians as what I`ve seen here towards them. They don't even flinch when I tell them I`m a Baptist.

I might reconsider doing that at this point.

 

[ReverendRV]

You got no scripture on that.

Sure I do, the Parable of the Soils and Christ's explanation there of...

 

[ReverendRV]

I`ll show it to you again in yet another way. You should feel special because I usually won't work this hard anymore.

Ephesians 6:17 tells us that the word of God is the sword of the Holy Spirit. So we know that the word is the weapon the Holy Spirit will use to make sinners surrender.

This is in keeping with the saying of Jesus "My sheep know my voice"

We see a Biblical example in Acts 2 (home of Acts 2:38 ),

First they are confounded that is to say they are confused. The natural man does not understand the gospel and is unable to understand what is going on. Acts 2:6

Then they are amazed that is to say they are deeply stirred in their hearts. Acts 2:7

Then they are in doubt which means they are perplexed and confused. Shows yet again they are the natural man. Acts 2:12

Next, the word which was spoken to them by the man acting as an ambassador for Jesus pricks them in their heart. The sword has cut. Acts 2:37

Regeneration takes place after all this has occurred. Acts 2:38

Temporally speaking, Regeneration and Faith occur at the same time. Logically speaking, the Soil needs to be Tilled by the Farmer before the Seed is Sown; to grow a Crop of 30, 60 or 100 Fold...

How are you doing?

 

[Clare73]

Matthew Mark and Jesus called it the gospel of the Kingdom. That has already been discussed.

The one NT gospel of Jesus Christ is called the "gospel of the Kingdom" as well as 13 other appellations in the NT.
That does not make it 14 gospels, that does not make it even two gospels, nor does it make it "one gospel in two parts" . .that makes it all one and the same gospel.

The apostle makes abundantly clear there is only one gospel, and that any addition to, subtraction from or dividing of it whatsoever makes it a false gospel, and makes anyone preaching such anathema; i.e., condemned (Galatians 1:6-9).

Sobering words, for sure.
"He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

 

[RickReads]

Sure I do, the Parable of the Soils and Christ's explanation there of...

The good soil isn't regenerated, it's only been prepped for seed.

 

[RickReads]

The one NT gospel of Jesus Christ is called the "gospel of the Kingdom" as well as 13 other appellations in the NT.
That does not make it 14 gospels, that does not make it even two gospels. . .it's all one and the same gospel.

The apostle makes clear there is only one gospel, and that any addition or subtraction from it whatsoever makes it a false gospel, and makes anyone preaching it anathema; i.e., condemned (Galatians 1:6-9).

Sobering words, for sure.
He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

You are railing against a strawman.

 

[ReverendRV]

The good soil isn't regenerated, it's only been prepped for seed.

Amen...

But "Prepared" Soil, when a Farmer prepares it; is Tilled Soil my friend...

 

[RickReads]

Temporally speaking, Regeneration and Faith occur at the same time. Logically speaking, the Soil needs to be Tilled by the Farmer before the Seed is Sown; to grow a Crop of 30, 60 or 100 Fold...

How are you doing?

I`m doing well RV. My car fell apart LOL! But I was blessed in the midst of calamity as I could have wrecked or gotten stranded, even killed perhaps. Steering was gone as I pulled into my parking space. Couldn't have made another block. Thx for asking. It gave me the time to start working you over
proper.

 

[RickReads]

Amen...

But "Prepared" Soil, when a Farmer prepares it; is Tilled Soil my friend...

Tilled soil is akin to a softened heart, not a regenerated one.

 

[Clare73]

The one NT gospel of Jesus Christ is called the "gospel of the Kingdom" as well as 13 other appellations in the NT.
That does not make it 14 gospels, that does not make it even two gospels, nor does it make it "one gospel in two parts" . .that makes it all one and the same gospel.
The apostle makes abundantly clear there is only one gospel, and that any addition to, subtraction from or dividing of it whatsoever makes it a false gospel, and makes anyone

preaching such anathema; i.e., condemned (Galatians 1:6-9).

Sobering words, for sure.
"He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

You are railing against a strawman.

Or you are entertaining the idea of a false gospel with two separate parts, about which
Galatians 1:6-9 is more than abundantly clear.

 

[RickReads]

Only when Galatians 1:6-9 is a strawman.

No, you accuse me falsely of things I didn't say or mean.