What is wrong with Calvinism ?

[RickReads]

John the Baptist died before the church age began. He never became a new creation in Christ, but was an OT believer in the Messiah. John was not chosen in Christ before the foundations of the world, for only the Church was chosen to be in Christ as His Bride.

Now John the Baptist stated that he (being a OT Jew) was not the Bride of Christ. But, rather. That he was considered to be a friend of the Groom. Resurrected Jews like Moses, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc.. will all be a friend of Jesus, while we (the church) will be the Bride of the Groom.

The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom
waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice.
That joy is mine, and it is now complete." John 3:29


grace and peace.........​

You gave me something to think about. Thx.

 

[SkyWriting]

In the monumental work of Calvin’s Institutes , it is interesting for a man with such an attention to detail when it comes to dogma and Scripture that he left out any mention of Gods primary attribute that God is love (1 John 4:8;16) and any biblical reference to those two verses in 1 John regarding God is love. His institutes contain thousands of bible references and over 1500 pages in his Institutes.

Love is explained a lot in the writings by Calvin linked here,
but as a command, not an attribute of the Father.

Institutes of the Christian Religion by Calvin

 

[RickReads]

Love is explained a lot, but as a command, not an attribute of the Father.
Institutes of the Christian Religion by Calvin

You kidding me ???

1 John 4:16
God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. God is love, and all who live in love live in God, and God lives in them. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him. God is love, and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

 

[SkyWriting]

You kidding me ???

1 John 4:16
God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. God is love, and all who live in love live in God, and God lives in them. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him. God is love, and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Edited:
Love is explained a lot in the writings by Calvin linked here,
but as a command, not an attribute of the Father.
Institutes of the Christian Religion by Calvin

 

[RickReads]

Edited:
Love is explained a lot in the writings by Calvin linked here,
but as a command, not an attribute of the Father.
Institutes of the Christian Religion by Calvin

Fair enough brother

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Love is explained a lot in the writings by Calvin linked here,
but as a command, not an attribute of the Father.

Institutes of the Christian Religion by Calvin

Thats my point its an essential attribute of God which he knew and did not teach that but ignored it.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Fair enough brother

Not really it actually exposes how cunning Calvin was by leaving it out as did the
reformed " confession I mentioned. They know God is Love exposes their beliefs and it in conflict with them when it comes to fatalism/determinism , double predestination and the Sovereignty of God.

 

[John Mullally]

Not really it actually exposes how cunning Calvin was by leaving it out as did the
reformed " confession I mentioned. They know God is Love exposes their beliefs and it in conflict with them when it comes to fatalism/determinism , double predestination and the Sovereignty of God.

You were a long-time Calvinist and I would appreciate your feedback on something I have not seen discussed.

Getting off Theological debate: I sense in Calvinism there is a lack of practical application teaching. Its fatalistic and exerting effort to please God is commonly dismissed as "a work of the law". Am I being too severe?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

You were a long-time Calvinist and I would appreciate your feedback on something I have not seen discussed.

Getting off Theological debate: I sense in Calvinism there is a lack of practical application teaching. Its fatalistic and exerting effort to please God is commonly dismissed as "a work of the law". Am I being too severe?

No you are spot on !

I cannot begin to tell you how many calvinists on another forum defend sin and "chief of sinners" attitude to defend daily sinning- it makes a mockery out of repentance and not living like gentiles/pagans.

 

[roman2819]

Gods Love

Revealed: Faithful in Christ predestined for adoption as sons​

I do know from Ephesians 1:1-6 that "the faithful in Christ" are "blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ" and "predestined to adoption as sons".

Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Redemption in Christ 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.​

It is too common to see people zooming in on words in Ephesians 1:1-6 and misinterpreted that God choose individuals to be saved. However, we need to interpret 70 verses in Ephesians chapter 1 to 3, taking context into consideration:.

Ephesians 1 :1 To God’s holy people in Ephesus, .... (v4) For He chose us in him before the creation of the world ... In love (v5) He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ,... (v11) In Him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him .... (v12)in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ...
Meaning = "We" and "us" refer to the Jewish Christians who confessed their sins were first to be saved in Jesus

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth... ch 2:11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised”... 12 you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise...
= Clearly, "you who are Gentiles" clearly means Paul was referring to Gentile Christians. "You" does NOT mean individuals. Paul explained that formerly, Gentiles were excluded from God

Ephesians 2 13 But now in Christ Jesus you... have been brought near by the blood of Christ...:14 For He ...has made the two groups one... 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations
Means = Unlike the past, the Gentiles can now be saved if they confessed their sins because Jesus' atonement has abolished the need to fulfill the Law (such as circumcision and OT laws)

15: His purpose was to create... one new humanity out of the two... and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross... 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit... .. Chapter 3:16 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus...”
= Both Jews and Gentiles have same access to God -- anyone who confessed their sins to Jesus can be saved. The mystery (Eph 3:16) is that when God reached out to Jews first, He had (unknown to anyone) planned ahead to offer salvation to the Gentiles too.

So what is predestination? It is just a word that refers to how God planned it all ahead to offer salvation to the Jews and then to Gentiles. ie: God predestined the plan to offer salvation to the Gentiles, He did not predestine which person(s) to be saved. In context, therefore, predestination does NOT mean God choose to save individuals. There is no discussion of individual predestination in Ephesians or Scripture. But unfortunately, some people focus on 3 words "He predestine us" and believe the idea of individual predestination.

In Book of People , Acts and others, there are verses that say "God choose us". During biblical times, people don't say they chose to believe in God. Instead they said God chose them -- this is out of humility. In ancient times, people on earth -- Jews, Persians, Babylonians, Chinese -- were more humble towards God and heaven. So to say they are chosen by God is a figure of speech. Such linguistic elements have been lost over time. When interpreting Bible, we have to appreciate how words were used in different times, culture and context.

 

[RickReads]

Not really it actually exposes how cunning Calvin was by leaving it out as did the
reformed " confession I mentioned. They know God is Love exposes their beliefs and it in conflict with them when it comes to fatalism/determinism , double predestination and the Sovereignty of God.

You misunderstand. The way SkyWriting worded his remark initially it appeared that he was saying love isn't an attribute of the Father rather than stating that Calvin believed that.

He corrected it with an edit to emphasize that the remark is in reference to Calvin's writing rather than being a statement Skywriting was making.

I hope that makes sense to you.

 

[RickReads]

It is too common to see people zooming in on words in Ephesians 1:1-6 and misinterpreted that God choose individuals to be saved. However, we need to interpret 70 verses in Ephesians chapter 1 to 3, taking context into consideration:.

Ephesians 1 :1 To God’s holy people in Ephesus, .... (v4) For He chose us in him before the creation of the world ... In love (v5) He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ,... (v11) In Him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him .... (v12)in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ...
Meaning = "We" and "us" refer to the Jewish Christians who confessed their sins were first to be saved in Jesus

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth... ch 2:11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised”... 12 you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise...
= Clearly, "you who are Gentiles" clearly means Paul was referring to Gentile Christians. "You" does NOT mean individuals. Paul explained that formerly, Gentiles were excluded from God

Ephesians 2 13 But now in Christ Jesus you... have been brought near by the blood of Christ...:14 For He ...has made the two groups one... 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations
Means = Unlike the past, the Gentiles can now be saved if they confessed their sins because Jesus' atonement has abolished the need to fulfill the Law (such as circumcision and OT laws)

15: His purpose was to create... one new humanity out of the two... and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross... 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit... .. Chapter 3:16 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus...”
= Both Jews and Gentiles have same access to God -- anyone who confessed their sins to Jesus can be saved. The mystery (Eph 3:16) is that when God reached out to Jews first, He had (unknown to anyone) planned ahead to offer salvation to the Gentiles too.

So what is predestination? It is just a word that refers to how God planned it all ahead to offer salvation to the Jews and then to Gentiles. ie: God predestined the plan to offer salvation to the Gentiles, He did not predestine which person(s) to be saved. In context, therefore, predestination does NOT mean God choose to save individuals. There is no discussion of individual predestination in Ephesians or Scripture. But unfortunately, some people focus on 3 words "He predestine us" and believe the idea of individual predestination.

In Book of People , Acts and others, there are verses that say "God choose us". During biblical times, people don't say they chose to believe in God. Instead they said God chose them -- this is out of humility. In ancient times, people on earth -- Jews, Persians, Babylonians, Chinese -- were more humble towards God and heaven. So to say they are chosen by God is a figure of speech. Such linguistic elements have been lost over time. When interpreting Bible, we have to appreciate how words were used in different times, culture and context.

Salvation was available to Gentiles, the proselytes were Gentiles. Your premise is flawed.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[Clare73]

John the Baptist died before the church age began. He never became a new creation in Christ, but was an OT believer in the Messiah. John was not chosen in Christ before the foundations of the world, for only the Church was chosen to be in Christ as His Bride.

That is contrary to authoritative NT apostolic teaching that there is only one olive tree of God's people, going all the way back to Abraham (Romans 11:15-18; Galatians 3:28-29).

That interpretation of prophetic riddles is contrary to NT apostolic teaching.
That interpretation is incorrect.

 

[Clare73]

Love is explained a lot in the writings by Calvin linked here,
but as a command, not an attribute of the Father.

Institutes of the Christian Religion by Calvin

Oops! . . .misrepresentation of Calvin demonstrated.

 

[Clare73]

Thats my point its an essential attribute of God which
he knew and did not teach that but ignored it.

He just presented voluminous evidence to the contrary from Calvin, and you say Calvin ignored it????

 

[Clare73]

Not really it actually exposes how cunning Calvin was by leaving it out as did the
reformed " confession I mentioned. They know God is Love exposes their beliefs and it in conflict with them when it comes to fatalism/determinism , double predestination and the Sovereignty of God.

The record disagrees with you.

 

[Clare73]

You were a long-time Calvinist and I would appreciate
your feedback on something I have not seen discussed.

I'm thinking the one to whom your question is addressed is not personally familiar with Calvin, particularly Book III.

Getting off Theological debate: I sense in Calvinism there is a lack of practical application teaching. Its fatalistic and exerting effort to please God is commonly dismissed as "a work of the law". Am I being too severe?

You're being uninformed.

Calvin is the grace theologian.

Did he claim to cover the whole counsel of God?

Have you read Book III?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

He just presented volumnous evidence from Calvin, and you say Calvin ignored it????

And you ignored this ffom the OP

" In the monumental work of Calvin’s Institutes , it is interesting for a man with such an attention to detail when it comes to dogma and Scripture that he left out any mention of Gods primary attribute that God is love (1 John 4:8;16) and any biblical reference to those two verses in 1 John regarding God is love. His institutes contain thousands of bible references and over 1500 pages in his Institutes.

Another interesting fact is that in the Shorter Westminster Catechism of Faith, question 4 “What is God “? We read the following regarding Gods attributes and notice what is left out. "

“God is Spirit, infinite, eternal, and unchangeable in his being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness and truth. “

Notice like in Calvin’s Institute’s, the WCF leaves out Gods primary attribute that He is love.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

The record disagrees with you.

the Bible supports me 100% and exposes the false doctrines of fatalism/determinism, double predestination and the calvinist view of Gods sovereignty.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Clare73]

No you are spot on !

I cannot begin to tell you how many calvinists on another forum defend sin and "chief of sinners" attitude to defend daily sinning- it makes a mockery out of repentance and not living like gentiles/pagans.

"Calvinists" are not Calvin. . .your serious mistake is confusing the two.
Such data is not reliable.