What is the value of one's confidence in salvation?

[PlatinumTrophies]

Considering the 'new threads' feature on the home page, I'm gonna guess the first few commenters will be non-denominational evangelicals.

Anywho, when I was a teenager, I attended a Southern Baptist Convention summer camp in which former NFL quarterback, Jon Kitna, was the main speaker. He spent an awkward amount of time talking about Internet inappropriate contentography and praising females over males. I hold no respect for the SBC.

The most jarring thing he said is that if you are not absolutely certain of your salvation, you will go to Hell. I have never seen anything in the Bible that says one's salvation is dependent on one's confidence. Even as a Baptist, I was uncertain. I never was a good Baptist past elementary school days.

Even the Baptists who do not believe salvation is obtained through a little prayer do believe in certainty somehow, yet they have no way of pinpointing a time in which that certainty began, or if there was a window of time between the obtaining of salvation and the beginning of one's certainty.

Is certainty of salvation worth anything to Orthodox? There are plenty of Baptist children that stay up at night crying because they are told they are supposed to be certain, when in reality they don't feel certain. If they don't feel certain, then that's a strong indication they are not saved. I can imagine Orthodox children being in a similar situation, only with the fear of Judgement Day instead. How much confidence, if any, should we feel? (1 John 5:13)

 

[ArmyMatt]

depends on what you mean. I am certain that Christ will return in glory, that death has been defeated, and that I will see myself in the Light of Christ. I am not certain, however, that my eventual encounter with God's love will be illumination and blessing. His love could very well be torment if I refused to give up my sins.

 

[straykat]

Sounds like cheesy dating advice. "It's all about confidence, bro!"

 

[PlatinumTrophies]

I just realized how much Satan would LOVE it if every person was 'certain' of their own salvation.

 

[Pethesedzao]

Considering the 'new threads' feature on the home page, I'm gonna guess the first few commenters will be non-denominational evangelicals.

Anywho, when I was a teenager, I attended a Southern Baptist Convention summer camp in which former NFL quarterback, Jon Kitna, was the main speaker. He spent an awkward amount of time talking about Internet inappropriate contentography and praising females over males. I hold no respect for the SBC.

The most jarring thing he said is that if you are not absolutely certain of your salvation, you will go to Hell. I have never seen anything in the Bible that says one's salvation is dependent on one's confidence. Even as a Baptist, I was uncertain. I never was a good Baptist past elementary school days.

Even the Baptists who do not believe salvation is obtained through a little prayer do believe in certainty somehow, yet they have no way of pinpointing a time in which that certainty began, or if there was a window of time between the obtaining of salvation and the beginning of one's certainty.

Is certainty of salvation worth anything to Orthodox? There are plenty of Baptist children that stay up at night crying because they are told they are supposed to be certain, when in reality they don't feel certain. If they don't feel certain, then that's a strong indication they are not saved. I can imagine Orthodox children being in a similar situation, only with the fear of Judgement Day instead. How much confidence, if any, should we feel? (1 John 5:13)

Have you been baptized with the Holy Spirit?

 

[RaymondG]

I just realized how much Satan would LOVE it if every person was 'certain' of their own salvation.

Satan would love equally for us to be content with uncertainty of salvation....he would not want us to desire to obtain this.......to seek until we find.....

 

[icxn]

Satan would love equally for us to be content with uncertainty of salvation....he would not want us to desire to obtain this.......to seek until we find.....

Don't you see that it is the uncertainty that drives the seeking, whereas complacency makes one lazy and indifferent?

 

[RaymondG]

Don't you see that it is the uncertainty that drives the seeking, whereas complacency makes one lazy and indifferent?

Seeking should never cease........knowledge of ones own salvation, however, should be obtained in this life, after which, death........ is impossible.

 

[icxn]

Seeking should never cease........knowledge of ones own salvation, however, should be obtained in this life, after which, death........ is impossible.

Yes, and this knowledge or certainty is a gift of Grace given usually to those who ran the race (2 Timothy 4:7).

 

[straykat]

I am "confident" that Christ conquered death and the flesh. But this applies to all. All will rise on the Last Day, whether they like it or not. Some to everlasting life, some to everlasting contempt.

But "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power". Not bodily resurrection above, but the resurrection of baptism and putting on Christ in the here and now. By living a life renewed by Christ's Spirit and letting him do his work in you. It would be arrogant to be confident in this. The Apostle warns us: "Work out your own salvation in fear and trembling".

 

[RaymondG]

Yes, and this knowledge or certainty is a gift of Grace given usually to those who ran the race (2 Timothy 4:7).

I agree......And those who die before passing the finish line are not said to have finished the race......they must still continue to run.

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

 

[PlatinumTrophies]

Have you been baptized with the Holy Spirit?

I don't know what the heck you charismatics believe in regards to Baptism. I was baptized into the SBC at the age of 12. I was baptized into the Eastern Orthodox Church less than a year ago. I was far more fiery in my worldview the second time. I noticed I didn't immediately improve as a person, but compared to a year ago, I've definitely gotten better in behaviour, attitude, prayer, and fasting.

 

[PlatinumTrophies]

Satan would love equally for us to be content with uncertainty of salvation....he would not want us to desire to obtain this.......to seek until we find.....

Actually, if Baptists were uncertain of salvation, they'd be more motivated to repent of their sins and continue bettering themselves. I don't think Satan likes it when people repent.

 

[PlatinumTrophies]

Seeking should never cease........knowledge of ones own salvation, however, should be obtained in this life, after which, death........ is impossible.

Sounds like nothing more than your preference. Why should we be certain? Did Jesus command it so? If one is certain, repentance is unnecessary. Might as well have pastors certain of their salvation host same sex marriages and perform abortions.

 

[PlatinumTrophies]

I agree......And those who die before passing the finish line are not said to have finished the race......they must still continue to run.

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

How do you know the moment one has crossed the finish line? Why do you put so much confidence in a human's feelings of salvation? Is there such a thing as false certainty?
I think Hell has plenty of people who were certain they'd end up in Heaven.

 

[straykat]

I really don't want to pit myself against anyone, and only use this as a frame of reference (because I know nothing else).. but it seems, like clockwork, when emphasis is put on a "once saved, always saved" idea of salvation, I don't see any good fruits from it. I see Baptist friends, for example, start living with their girlfriends before marriage and getting them pregnant; I see people "sow their wild oats" in other ways.. going through all of the worldly rituals of bar hopping, multiple sex partners, drugs, etc (and then that above situation of finally finding a girlfriend worth living with is their idea of "settling down".. and it's no better an improvement than anything else than they were doing).

I simply can not make this step... And I've paid for it. I now live a lonely life, with little experience of the world after I found Christ, and celibate in my 40s.. because I simply didn't give in and experiment and have this "confidence" that I'd be saved no matter what. Go ahead and ridicule me as the one who lacks salvation. Perhaps I do! Perhaps it's all good. But no amount of twisting my arm or shaming me or calling me a heretic who believes in "works salvation" will change anything. At this point, I've invested in this too long that I'll simply see it through. What if I turned out right and I happened to be building treasure in heaven? No point in squandering it now, at this age. Might as well try to build more.. even if I can't see it, even if I die alone.

 

[RaymondG]

How do you know the moment one has crossed the finish line?

Not something that can be explained. IT is a time that comes as the wind. unexpected through grace, lest any man should boost.

Why do you put so much confidence in a human's feelings of salvation?

This is not a human feeling......in the flesh, no man can please God. Them that worship Him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Is there such a thing as false certainty?
I think Hell has plenty of people who were certain they'd end up in Heaven.

Yes there is....and I would argue that most of those who believe they will end up in Heaven may be disappointed....if they take this belief to the grave....

 

[RobNJ]

Follow this back to Youtube , and save it to Favorites

 

[PlatinumTrophies]

Not something that can be explained. IT is a time that comes as the wind. unexpected through grace, lest any man should boost.


This is not a human feeling......in the flesh, no man can please God. Them that worship Him must worship him in spirit and in truth.



Yes there is....and I would argue that most of those who believe they will end up in Heaven may be disappointed....if they take this belief to the grave....

I cannot help but pity those who believe Christianity is a religion based on man's opinion of a text. Satan does love people being certain.

 

[PlatinumTrophies]

I really don't want to pit myself against anyone, and only use this as a frame of reference (because I know nothing else).. but it seems, like clockwork, when emphasis is put on a "once saved, always saved" idea of salvation, I don't see any good fruits from it. I see Baptist friends, for example, start living with their girlfriends before marriage and getting them pregnant; I see people "sow their wild oats" in other ways.. going through all of the worldly rituals of bar hopping, multiple sex partners, drugs, etc (and then that above situation of finally finding a girlfriend worth living with is their idea of "settling down".. and it's no better an improvement than anything else than they were doing).

I simply can not make this step... And I've paid for it. I now live a lonely life, with little experience of the world after I found Christ, and celibate in my 40s.. because I simply didn't give in and experiment and have this "confidence" that I'd be saved no matter what. Go ahead and ridicule me as the one who lacks salvation. Perhaps I do! Perhaps it's all good. But no amount of twisting my arm or shaming me or calling me a heretic who believes in "works salvation" will change anything. At this point, I've invested in this too long that I'll simply see it through. What if I turned out right and I happened to be building treasure in heaven? No point in squandering it now, at this age. Might as well try to build more.. even if I can't see it, even if I die alone.

I think this is a the main reason why the Southern Baptist Convention has such a problem with its members shacking up, viewing inappropriate content, etc. They preach repentance is only necessary until one becomes 'certain'.