What is the value of one's confidence in salvation?

[Pethesedzao]

I don't know what the heck you charismatics believe in regards to Baptism. I was baptized into the SBC at the age of 12. I was baptized into the Eastern Orthodox Church less than a year ago. I was far more fiery in my worldview the second time. I noticed I didn't immediately improve as a person, but compared to a year ago, I've definitely gotten better in behaviour, attitude, prayer, and fasting.

First of all, r u born again? Secondly, every believer is charismatic ie saved by the Charis of God. Thirdly, Jesus is the One who baptizes with the Spirit (and fire) and that is one of the 3 Baptisms...

 

[PlatinumTrophies]

First of all, r u born again? Secondly, every believer is charismatic ie saved by the Charis of God. Thirdly, Jesus is the One who baptizes with the Spirit (and fire) and that is one of the 3 Baptisms...

Yeah, I'm born again of the water. I don't really care about learning the specifics of any single protestant denomination since protestants have no basis for asserting their theology as the one to finally get the Bible right.

 

[Pethesedzao]

Yeah, I'm born again of the water. I don't really care about learning the specifics of any single protestant denomination since protestants have no basis for asserting their theology as the one to finally get the Bible right.

God's will is for ALL believers to be baptized with the Holy Spirit, tongues being an evidence of that baptism

 

[peregrinus2017]

In my very limited experience, the more I get to know and become like Christ, the more I trust Him, and the more I become aware of how unworthy and undeserving I am of His love and mercy. Confidence and certainty don't really come into it, trust and love do. The concept you are describing sounds truly awful. Maybe I am mistaken, but the whole need for 'assurance of salvation' seems to come about when the understanding of salvation becomes this one point in time and forever concept excised and isolated from the ongoing sanctification that is the working out of our salvation with fear and trembling. Even this idea that one needs to be certain of their salvation or they are not 'saved' instantly puts the focus on me, not Christ.

 

[Not David]

God's will is for ALL believers to be baptized with the Holy Spirit, tongues being an evidence of that baptism

Pentecostals are just 100 years old. Nobody in Church History believed you needed to be saved by speaking in tongues.

 

[RobNJ]

God's will is for ALL believers to be baptized with the Holy Spirit, tongues being an evidence of that baptism

I always figured if I was in room full of people who started babbling incoherently, I'd make sure there wasn't a snake handler between me, and the nearest exit

 

[RaymondG]

I always figured if I was in room full of people who started babbling incoherently, I'd make sure there wasn't a snake handler between me, and the nearest exit

We only handle snake when we have to.....thou shouldnt tempt the lord thy God.......

 

[RobNJ]

We only handle snake when we have to.....thou shouldnt tempt the lord thy God.......

That, and it must be a lot harder to fake, than "tongues"

 

[RaymondG]

That, and it must be a lot harder to fake, than "tongues"

The wonder is not in the handling of snakes........anyone with the nerve can do that......It is in the ineffectiveness of the bite on them that believe. For this....I have no need to test it.....im just fine knowing that it is true in the event that a snake has me up against a corner........Even though I will not die.....I am not interested in experiencing the pain.

A more interesting sign is that of laying hands on the sick and having them recover... I find this much more rewarding than speaking in tongues or staring down a snake. If you desire a sign from one who has the spirit....ask them to heal one who is sick.....this way more than your curiosity is benefited.....

 

[buzuxi02]

Being "certain" of your salvation does not make it so. I know many good people who lapse, many into the sin of immorality such as young single people in college but some still view themselves as pure as their elementary and high school days who rationalize their deeds away. Some are still certain they are like before innocent.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Considering the 'new threads' feature on the home page, I'm gonna guess the first few commenters will be non-denominational evangelicals.

Anywho, when I was a teenager, I attended a Southern Baptist Convention summer camp in which former NFL quarterback, Jon Kitna, was the main speaker. He spent an awkward amount of time talking about Internet inappropriate contentography and praising females over males. I hold no respect for the SBC.

The most jarring thing he said is that if you are not absolutely certain of your salvation, you will go to Hell. I have never seen anything in the Bible that says one's salvation is dependent on one's confidence. Even as a Baptist, I was uncertain. I never was a good Baptist past elementary school days.

Even the Baptists who do not believe salvation is obtained through a little prayer do believe in certainty somehow, yet they have no way of pinpointing a time in which that certainty began, or if there was a window of time between the obtaining of salvation and the beginning of one's certainty.

Is certainty of salvation worth anything to Orthodox? There are plenty of Baptist children that stay up at night crying because they are told they are supposed to be certain, when in reality they don't feel certain. If they don't feel certain, then that's a strong indication they are not saved. I can imagine Orthodox children being in a similar situation, only with the fear of Judgement Day instead. How much confidence, if any, should we feel? (1 John 5:13)

I think people want overwhelming certainty because they are scared of being hell bound.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Under the assumption that he is still our shield and exceeding great reward, the value of being confident of our salvation is that we become Just like Jesus as we life move and breathe in this world.

 

[straykat]

Remember that time our Lord had "updated" his parable of the 10 virgins, where it didn't matter if the fire went out for the lamps of some.. and he no longer named them the "5 foolish virgins", but called them the "5 confident virgins" instead?

Yeah, I don't remember it either.

 

[straykat]

1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Under the assumption that he is still our shield and exceeding great reward, the value of being confident of our salvation is that we become Just like Jesus as we life move and breathe in this world.

The same epistle says we must purify ourselves though.

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure." (1 John 3:2,3]

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." [verse 9,10]

A humbling verse.. I'm certainly not innocent by any means. But it urges me on.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The same epistle says we must purify ourselves though.

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure." (1 John 3:2,3]

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." [verse 9,10]

A humbling verse.. I'm certainly not innocent by any means. But it urges me on.

John's teachings are the more advanced ones in the canon, it assumes that the earlier steps have already come into effect in the believer's life. I'll trust God to cultivate his nature in me as I continue to trust in Him.

 

[Pethesedzao]

I always figured if I was in room full of people who started babbling incoherently, I'd make sure there wasn't a snake handler between me, and the nearest exit

Speaking with new tongues is for all believers today, always has been. When one prays and worships in tongues they are ministering in the Spirit to the glory of God. The Baptism WITH the Spirit is God's greatest desire for the Church today. Jesus will not call the Church up until the Baptism is commonplace in the Body...

 

[ArmyMatt]

Speaking with new tongues is for all believers today, always has been. When one prays and worships in tongues they are ministering in the Spirit to the glory of God. The Baptism WITH the Spirit is God's greatest desire for the Church today. Jesus will not call the Church up until the Baptism is commonplace in the Body...

sure, just not how modern AoG or Pentecostals do it. no evidence in Scripture of an unknown tongue.

except that last point. where in Scripture does it say that praying and worshipping in tongues is ministering in the Spirit to the glory of God? where exactly is that verse?

 

[straykat]

The gift of tongues was for spreading the Gospel, at the perfect time when many diaspora Jews and even outsiders had come to Jerusalem for Passover.

All these modern tongues do is make people seem crazy. It's the opposite of displaying the power of God. I can understand glosslalia somewhat as a language of ineffable praise to God at times, but what kind of witness is it to cluck like a chicken and roll on the floor? It'll make outsiders laugh or run away. Quite the opposite happened with St. Mary and St. Peter and others. No one ran away from them - people were convicted or even angry - but the last thing they did is not understand them. The disciples spoke with clear power and preached the story of Christ for all to hear. It was the first sign that the Church's mission was to mobilize and spread across the world.. just as Jesus said at his Ascension: "All power has been given to me in heaven and earth. Now go and preach the gospel to all nations..."

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I dont know much. I know Christ defeated death for us all. I know my baptism and chrismation bring His Divine Life into mine. I know He loves us all. And if I do find eternal life, the only reason I’ll find it is God’s merciful grace and the sacramental life.

 

[Pethesedzao]

sure, just not how modern AoG or Pentecostals do it. no evidence in Scripture of an unknown tongue.

except that last point. where in Scripture does it say that praying and worshipping in tongues is ministering in the Spirit to the glory of God? where exactly is that verse?

Go over 1 Corinthians 12 and 14