What is the strong delusion God will send in the end time?

Interplanner · Mar 27, 2014

The Rapture would be more mistaken than delusion. It is too minor of an emphasis, and even less once sorted away from Mt 24A (B = v29+), which means away from the 1st century dilemma.

A larger option for a major delusion would be a return to Judaism, which would mean the complete undoing of the letter of Hebrews. I don't give much credence to futurist eschatology, but I will say that if they see events in modern Israel as a total distraction and delusion from the Gospel of grace, then, OK, that's on the right track.

I don't think they do. I think they think that there is a positive expected meaning to restore a theocracy and temple worship that has to happen. The NT knows nothing of the sort.

shturt678s · Mar 27, 2014

I find it stunning that others don't realize the great import of this thread?

First and foremost the more difficult it is to dertect the error's mixed with truth, ie, destroying souls, the more damnable the lie is. Pre-mil, Pre-trib, Mid-trib, Post-mil, all-mil (all will pan out in the end) are obvious error's working. Delusions in the Amil. camp are the damnable lies we should be concerned with, ie, all the diverse views of God's preliminary miraculous judgments, or as most feel, all grace and no judgments, justice, and wrath today, should be our daily priority waaay beyond Church on Sunday for the whole 1 hour, ie, which diverse interpretation is valid (IIThess.2:4; Rev.9:1-21?)???

Old Jack

JacobLaw · Mar 27, 2014

John S said:
I considerate to be Satan's greatest deception because it will deceive MANY millions - and Jesus said that "Many will be deceived".

Yes, however those pre-tribers generally have excepted Jesus Christ as Lord and just are mistaken; I would more characterize the ecumenical movement were the path to salvation has been change to a wide or board path instead of a straight and narrow.
Word of God is the only way to salvation through the preaching of the gospel, when other offer another way, they have not excepted the love of the truth and are in strong delusion.

JacobLaw · Mar 27, 2014

shturt678s said:
I find it stunning that others don't realize the great import of this thread?

First and foremost the more difficult it is to dertect the error's mixed with truth, ie, destroying souls, the more damnable the lie is. Pre-mil, Pre-trib, Mid-trib, Post-mil, all-mil (all will pan out in the end) are obvious error's working. Delusions in the Amil. camp are the damnable lies we should be concerned with, ie, all the diverse views of God's preliminary miraculous judgments, or as most feel, all grace and no judgments, justice, and wrath today, should be our daily priority waaay beyond Church on Sunday for the whole 1 hour, ie, which diverse interpretation is valid (IIThess.2:4; Rev.9:1-21?)???

Old Jack

I agree; I have not been involved that much because of the topic has be distracted my arguing doctrines.
But you are right it is a very important topic; especially now.

JacobLaw · Mar 27, 2014

Interplanner said:
The Rapture would be more mistaken than delusion. It is too minor of an emphasis, and even less once sorted away from Mt 24A (B = v29+), which means away from the 1st century dilemma.

A larger option for a major delusion would be a return to Judaism, which would mean the complete undoing of the letter of Hebrews. I don't give much credence to futurist eschatology, but I will say that if they see events in modern Israel as a total distraction and delusion from the Gospel of grace, then, OK, that's on the right track.

I don't think they do. I think they think that there is a positive expected meaning to restore a theocracy and temple worship that has to happen. The NT knows nothing of the sort.

Can't say I disagree with you; I would say that certainly is apart of Strong Delusion.

shturt678s · Mar 27, 2014

JacobLaw said:
Can't say I disagree with you; I would say that certainly is apart of Strong Delusion.

Once one grasps that God is not only a God of mercy and grace, but a God of justice and wrath (Rev.8:7-9:21; IIThess.2:3-12 TODAY "delusions" maxed out!) then we'll start seeing a little more "fearing" God (Rom3:18) about us so not to offend or provoke a Living God into action especially during our short earthly lives, and if one is born into a full blown apostasy as in today's time where most think it's all grace and mercy, ie, now you and I will have to agree to disagree.

Old disagreeable Jack

btw the buck stops at IIThess.2:10b, ie, lack of an agape.

John S · Mar 27, 2014

JacobLaw said:
Yes, however those pre-tribers generally have excepted Jesus Christ as Lord and just are mistaken; I would more characterize the ecumenical movement were the path to salvation has been change to a wide or board path instead of a straight and narrow.
Word of God is the only way to salvation through the preaching of the gospel, when other offer another way, they have not excepted the love of the truth and are in strong delusion.

Here is the problem with the Pre-Rapture Doctrine.
When the antichrist arrives, believers of this doctrine will say - "This man is NOT the antichrist because God PROMISED us that when the antichrist arrives, we will be gone. Because I am still here, he is NOT the antichrist."
THAT is what Satan wants.

JacobLaw · Mar 27, 2014

shturt678s said:
Once one grasps that God is not only a God of mercy and grace, but a God of justice and wrath (Rev.8:7-9:21; IIThess.2:3-12 TODAY "delusions" maxed out!) then we'll start seeing a little more "fearing" God (Rom3:18) about us so not to offend or provoke a Living God into action especially during our short earthly lives, and if one is born into a full blown apostasy as in today's time where most think it's all grace and mercy, ie, now you and I will have to agree to disagree.

Old disagreeable Jack

btw the buck stops at IIThess.2:10b, ie, lack of an agape.

Again; I agree, bottom-line is the Charity; and the ignorance is willful, people have an agenda that they don't want interrupted, be it their pet doctrine or programing.

That is why the topic is not popular.

JacobLaw · Mar 27, 2014

John S said:
Here is the problem with the Pre-Rapture Doctrine.
When the antichrist arrives, believers of this doctrine will say - "This man is NOT the antichrist because God PROMISED us that when the antichrist arrives, we will be gone. Because I am still here, he is NOT the antichrist."
THAT is what Satan wants.

Excellent point.

Shocker · Mar 27, 2014

Im not a pretribber, but I do believe the words of Jesus Christ..

Rev 3:10 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

This "hour of testing" which is about to come upon the whole world, has not yet happened.

Otherwise, we would have known it..

shturt678s · Mar 27, 2014

Shocker said:
Im not a pretribber, but I do believe the words of Jesus Christ..

Rev 3:10 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

This "hour of testing" which is about to come upon the whole world, has not yet happened.

Otherwise, we would have known it..

We would not know of it because that is what the "delusions" in IIThess.2:11-12 are about, ie, we're all secure and have our tickets to heaven only having to be concerned about which glory we will be in heaven upon passing?

It's reference to Rev.7:14, etc., where those measured at Rev.11:1 are the ones that secretly and forensically from heaven made it through the Trumpets of 'delusions' including today, ie, not Matt.24:21.

Old Jack

shturt678s · Mar 27, 2014

JacobLaw said:
Again; I agree, bottom-line is the Charity; and the ignorance is willful, people have an agenda that they don't want interrupted, be it their pet doctrine or programing.

That is why the topic is not popular.

The 3rd time is a charm, ie, we'll have to agree to disagree regarding "Charity" defined for suuure, ie, the person intelligently understood for a corresponding higher intelligent purpose way beyond affection, altruistic, and all that touchy touchy sacrificing stuff.

Agree with me one more time and you'll be marked plus my reputation will be ruined for sure.

Old disagreeing Jack

Thank you again

Shocker · Mar 27, 2014

shturt678s said:
We would not know of it because that is what the "delusions" in IIThess.2:11-12 are about,

That's not true.

2Th 2:11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,

What reason? The verse above tells us this reason.

2Th 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

Christians are saved, and have the love of truth, which is Christ.

The "delusion" you speak of is not for us..

2 Corinthians further expounds.

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not[/B], lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

shturt678s · Mar 27, 2014

Shocker said:
That's not true.

2Th 2:11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,

Whatever religious lie one wants to believe God will make sure they believe that lie now, eg, this moment (IIThess.2:9; Rev.13:14b). Christians with the right heart condition from God's view don't receive the "error's working" of course.

What reason? The verse above tells us this reason.

2Th 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

You and I have a whole different definition of "agape" thus we will have to agree to disagree on this one for sure, ie, now, this very moment.

Christians are saved, and have the love of truth, which is Christ.

The agape for the Truth includes the essentials of the faith for sure waaay beyond Christ (there is even a "another Christ Jesus" in IICor.11:4).

The "delusion" you speak of is not for us..

It's been for us since 70 A.D. where we are toward the ending of the miraculous preliminary judgments of Rev.8:7-9:21.

2 Corinthians further expounds.

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not[/B], lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Only have to move fast forward from IICor.4:4 to IICor.11:4 then we smoking hot for an agape for the Truth.

Old Jack that doesn't have that truth.

Shocker · Mar 27, 2014

old jack, what was the biggest mistake the Jews made concerning Christ?

They didn't study the prophecy of his coming.

they were ignorant to the prophecies given to them.

Why do you think the Wise men were wise?

they knew what they were looking for..

shturt678s · Mar 27, 2014

Shocker said:
old jack, what was the biggest mistake the Jews made concerning Christ?

They didn't study the prophecy of his coming.

they were ignorant to the prophecies given to them.

Why do you think the Wise men were wise?

they knew what they were looking for..

You're giving me too much credit and energy, ie, I'm just a fool sold out for Christ Jesus and the Cross more than most could understand, ie, 24/7 making the Sunday 1 hour worshippers uncomfortable for some reason? Take my view with a less than a grain of salt agreeing to disagree with me as I can see you also have a great agape for our Lord and the Cross.

Off the top if I recall correctly the Jews simply expected a grand, earthly type Deliverer and Ruler who would lift the Jews (like the Christians want to argue over what glory they will be in heaven where even modern Lutherans have also bought into hypergrace) above all nations in supreme type power and glory (Christian type glory where I'm just trying to squeeze through the narrow gate) ergo say an "earthly kingdom"? As we want an outward, visible, glorious kingdom, they did the same murdering God and man united, our Lord Jesus Christ. I hope we're not recrucifying Him again?

Just talking out loud to much, and enjoying myself too sinfully much,

Old Jack

Now the wise men a little different story, and would have to open up the Bible before responding on this.

JacobLaw · Mar 27, 2014

::

shturt678s said:
The 3rd time is a charm, ie, we'll have to agree to disagree regarding "Charity" defined for suuure, ie, the person intelligently understood for a corresponding higher intelligent purpose way beyond affection, altruistic, and all that touchy touchy sacrificing stuff.

Agree with me one more time and you'll be marked plus my reputation will be ruined for sure.

Old disagreeing Jack

Thank you again

Shocker · Mar 27, 2014

shturt678s said:
You're giving me too much credit and energy, ie, I'm just a fool sold out for Christ Jesus and the Cross more than most could understand, ie, 24/7 making the Sunday 1 hour worshippers uncomfortable for some reason? Take my view with a less than a grain of salt agreeing to disagree with me as I can see you also have a great agape for our Lord and the Cross.

Off the top if I recall correctly the Jews simply expected a grand, earthly type Deliverer and Ruler who would lift the Jews (like the Christians want to argue over what glory they will be in heaven where even modern Lutherans have also bought into hypergrace) above all nations in supreme type power and glory (Christian type glory where I'm just trying to squeeze through the narrow gate) ergo say an "earthly kingdom"? As we want an outward, visible, glorious kingdom, they did the same murdering God and man united, our Lord Jesus Christ. I hope we're not recrucifying Him again?

Just talking out loud to much, and enjoying myself too sinfully much,

Old Jack

Now the wise men a little different story, and would have to open up the Bible before responding on this.

That's almost exactly what Im saying..

The Jews missed Christ and to this day are expecting the very messiah that the OT prophesied.. His coming was so specific anyone who studied the scriptures should have seen it, but they didn't..

The same could be said for today, easily... We are so inundated with post-modernism that we forgot we are part of the story...

I believe God will make his followers well aware via his Spirit when the time is right, I just cant imagine how people don't see what is really going on..

shturt678s · Mar 27, 2014

JacobLaw said:
::

These threads are full of surprises, ie, had my heart meds. ready.

Old Jack

shturt678s · Mar 27, 2014

Shocker said:
That's almost exactly what Im saying..

The Jews missed Christ and to this day are expecting the very messiah that the OT prophesied.. His coming was so specific anyone who studied the scriptures should have seen it, but they didn't..

The same could be said for today, easily... We are so inundated with post-modernism that we forgot we are part of the story...

I believe God will make his followers well aware via his Spirit

He's doing that this moment via IIThess.2:3-12 & Rev.6:2 & 8:7-9:21.

when the time is right, I just cant imagine how people don't see what is really going on..

They don't see due to IIThess.2:10b.

Old Jack

What is the strong delusion God will send in the end time?

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