I think you mean "reprehensible." Again, you assume too much, as I did not "call you lazy" as you say, seeing I definitely said "IF." But then, I suppose you wore the shoe because you thought it fit?
Is this your educated opinion? You have the burden of proof to show this with actual historical data.
Every generation has mostly immature Christians, even the First Century had them, and today is no exception. Walking in the fullness of the Spirit of some does not prove anything concerning your theory about the P/C (modern Pentecostal/Charismatic) movement's claims. Get specific as I have clearly done, or your theory falls flat.
There have been periods of revival throughout history, and we could discuss why the Welsh revival took root. But the teachings of the P/C movement is something different, as we are talking about certain claims such as the authenticity of common practices which are called prophecy, tongues, and interpretation and such. Of these claims, I say come out of natural activity and are not miraculous, whereas the Biblical gifts were miraculous. I keep saying you have the burden of proof to show that those activities are the same as described in the scripture. I think I clearly showed they are not. So do you want to discuss the real issue here, or do you want to evade it?
Spurgeon is well-respected in the Christian community, and I do consider him well-gifted. However, it doesn't support the P/C movement's claims. You have the burden of proof to get specific on what gifts you are talking about.
You have the burden of proof to show this by specific data. If you don't bring the historical proof to the table, then it's just your opinion.
What? Do I see you now changing your tune? Are you now acknowledging that the vast majority of P/C activities regarding these gifts are not the same as described in the NT? That the P/C claims really are false concerning what they
commonly practice?
No, this is a false premise. The Holy Spirit is still at work. What has diminished to almost no activity is the working of miracles which are mostly the sign gifts. Miracles are in no wise as common as the P/C movement claims. The main activity of the Holy Spirit is to regenerate and sanctify the saints. It is only occasional that God decides to miraculously heal someone or perform a miraculous act for someone.
But we are talking about the specific gifts of the Spirit listed in 1 Cor. 12. I think I sufficiently proved that those gifts were miraculous in nature (but I could go further if needed). I also laid claim that those gifts were given to individuals who could exercise them at their discretion, which I'm certain can be shown by Biblical exegesis (and I could do this if needed). I also laid claim that the so-called gifts commonly practiced in the P/C movement are not miraculous in nature, but are activities taken out of natural phenomenon and imagination, much like what is done by modern psychics and other religions. We could discuss this also if necessary. However, I see that you might be starting to acknowledge this by your comment above.
God will give wisdom if you ask for it, but you must ask in faith. Furthermore, God will grant what we ask if it is in accordance with His will. You will see that I am in agreement with you in this matter, if you are familiar enough with scripture to note that my two statements have direct reference to scripture.
Nevertheless, as I said before, the miraculous gifts of the Spirit listed in 1 Cor. 12 are not what is commonly practiced in the P/C movement today. Furthermore, the Holy Spirit will bring gifts to people according to HIS will, not according to the P/C movement's agenda.
The gifts that people HAVE today that are commonly practiced in the churches are such as mercy, administration, preaching, evangelism, and other such gifts that are associated with the providence of God. IOW, inspired of God, but not in the miraculous category.
How can you be certain that the devil did not invent the doctrines of the modern P/C movement? If what they commonly practice is claimed to be the miraculous gifts of the Spirit listed in 1 Cor. 12, but in fact are not, then someone is deceived and under the devil's spell.
Actually, I never claimed that the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased. I think you assumed it because I question the authenticity of the P/C claims. What I did claim is that those specific miraculous gifts listed in 1 Cor. 12, which the people who HAD them could exercise at their discretion, were gifts not in operation today, at least not the way that the P/C movement claims. At least I don't see that they are, but the P/C claim that they are and in common use is a false claim. If you want to hang the label of cessationist on me, then go right ahead. I don't consider myself in that camp, but I do see that it is your judgment of me.
But I also think that my words in this post do indeed prove that the modern P/C movement's claims about those gifts, and about tongues in particular, and all that is associated with it, are false. We could discuss this further, if necessary.
TD
