WHAT IS THE REAL GOSPEL?

[Nathan@work]

Often, partial citations of simple passages like this cause me to doubt about the motivations of the poster, viz:

Following is how the passage actually reads:

"Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: from which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust." --1 Timothy 1:5-11

My motivation is truth.

 

[Religiot]

My motivation is truth.

My motivation is the truth, nothing but the WHOLE truth.

 

[pasifika]

1 Timothy 1:5-7 (ESV)

The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion, desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions.

Sometimes simple passages like this just make me wonder about threads on the interweb.

Maybe still lack knowledge...as Paul puts it still "infant" in their knowledge of God....

 

[John Mullally]

To imagine that that list by Paul is somehow exhaustive, requires a reasoning so unnatural as to render it no reasoning at all, but shear adherence to a preconception not found in scripture.

The list in Acts 15:23-29 was to be exhaustive concerning Jewish laws the Gentiles were expected to keep. The apostles and elders did not see a need to list items that were commonly viewed as immoral.

Nowhere in the Epistles are Gentile believers commanded to "Keep the Sabbath". Keeping the Sabbath is a Jewish religious practice - its not tied to morals. If Keeping the Sabbath was a religious practice deemed important enough to be in the category of things to be commanded on the Gentiles, it would have been included in the letter written in Acts 15:23-29. The purpose of Acts 15:23-29 is to list religious related practices that were to be commanded to Gentile believers. By its absence in that letter, the following religious practices were not commanded of the Gentile believers: Circumcision, Keeping Jewish festivals, Sacrifices, and Keeping the Sabbath. Some dietary laws were asserted, but these restrictions are things that are no longer done in the west.

The reference to the Sabbath in Acts 15:21 is just saying that the Jews, unlike the Gentiles, were taught the Law of Moses every Sabbath. If that was a tradition to passed on to the Gentiles, it would have been included in Acts 15:23-29.

 

[Religiot]

Maybe still lack knowledge...as Paul puts it still "infant" in their knowledge of God....

Actually, no, not infant, but departed from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith: those who depart from these start to deny the goodness of the law, and become vain in their thinking, and start to affirm things they know nothing about--that is the commencement of the reprobate mind, which is the gift of God to them who love not the truth.

 

[Religiot]

The list in Acts 15:23-29 was to be exhaustive concerning Jewish laws. The apostles and elders did not see a need to list items that were commonly viewed as immoral.

You don't know what you are talking about, nor do you realize the absurdity of your assertion, that that list is exhaustive, is something I've never heard a naysayer ever claim, yet here you are, claiming that very thing: truly, I am astonished.

Nowhere in the Epistles are Gentile believers commanded to "Keep the Sabbath". Keeping the Sabbath in a Jewish religious practice - its not tied to morals. If Keeping the Sabbath was a religious practice deemed important enough to be in the category of things to be commanded on the Gentiles, it would have been included in the letter written in Acts 15:23-29. The purpose of Acts 15:23-29 is to list religious related practices that were to be commanded to Gentile believers. By its absence in that letter, the following religious practices were not commanded of the Gentile believers: Circumcision, Keeping Jewish festivals, Sacrifices, Keeping the Sabbath, and dietary laws concerning foods not offered to Idols.

Nothing but what is commanded in the letter is to be observed--by your logic, this is what you assert--can you not see that?

The reference to the Sabbath in Acts 15:21 is just saying that the Jews, unlike the Gentiles, were taught the Law of Moses every Sabbath. If that was a tradition to passed on to the Gentiles, it would have been included in Acts 15:23-29.

Incredible: the very reference that justifies the brevity of the list, the fact that the law is taught every Sabbath in every city, is dismissed by you as James just pointing out that the Jewish laws are taught everywhere to Jews... Amazing.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you're even trying.

Goodbye.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So... The person who doesn't have the second chapter of Ezra, can they have life?

Why not? What do you think is the meaning of Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and James 4:17 are and how might these scriptures apply to answering your question here? God only holds us accountable to what we know not what we do not know according to these scriptures.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

@LoveGodsWord

How many of the verses that you shared in #9 are actual didactic texts where the authors main goal is to define the Gospel? I notice lots conclusions based upon presuppositions and ideas concluded by way of the verses shared, but how many of those verses are actually trying to define the Gospel?

1 Corinthians 15 is an effort to define the Gospel, so that’s at least one section of the Bible.

As shown in post # 9 linked the gospel in the Greek G2098 εὐαγγέλιον euaggelion n. simply means a good message or Good news. The scriptures provided in the linked post apply the gospel message to the Word of God in both the old and new testament scriptures. The Word of God is the gospel of the kingdom of God as shown in the scriptures provided in the linked post. According to the scriptures the true gospel is all the Words of God from the old and new testament scriptures because they points to Jesus as the living Word of God and God's plan of salvation revealed through His Word which is "good news" for all those who believe and follow them. Both the old and new testament scriptures point to Jesus who is the central theme of the God's good news for mankind pointing to the life, death and resurrection of Jesus and God's sacrifice for the sins of the world as the central theme of the gospel which is the Word of God. You may also want to consider that Paul was teaching Jesus through the old testament scriptures. In the days of Jesus and the Apostles their bible was the old testament scriptures in which Paul being a Pharisee would be well versed.

God bless

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The Gospel is the entirety of scripture, but the other gospel is the same scripture. The difference between the two, is one is the letter and the other is spirit.

Thanks Marty, a mostly good post. All the Word of God is indeed God's good news (gospel) to all mankind. In what you have written above what is your take on a false gospel?

 

[Cormack]

The replies are appreciated, @LoveGodsWord. However none of that message answered my question, so once again, for the sake of clarity: How many of the verses that you shared in #9 are actual didactic texts where the authors main goal is to define the Gospel?

You could go beyond your post (#9,) so long as you’re sharing Bible material where the clear intent of the author is to define the Gospel.

I’m not asking for a collection of verses that you believe dovetail together to help make your case for why the Gospel means everything in the Bible, I’m asking do you have any section of text where the authors explicit goal (in your opinion) is to define the Gospel for Christians.

1 Corinthians 15 is an example of Paul defining the Gospel. Do you have any example like that which argue for the Gospel being the entire Bible, or are the arguments from post 9 the absolute best source for your view.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The replies are appreciated, @LoveGodsWord. However none of that message answered my question, so once again, for the sake of clarity: How many of the verses that you shared in #9 are actual didactic texts where the authors main goal is to define the Gospel?

You could go beyond your post (#9,) so long as you’re sharing Bible material where the clear intent of the author is to define the Gospel.

I’m not asking for a collection of verses that you believe dovetail together to help make your case for why the Gospel means everything in the Bible, I’m asking do you have any section of text where the authors explicit goal (in your opinion) is to define the Gospel for Christians.

1 Corinthians 15 is an example of Paul defining the Gospel. Do you have any example like that which argue for the Gospel being the entire Bible, or are the arguments from post 9 the absolute best source for your view.

Sorry Cormack I respectfully disagree. Post # 9 linked does indeed show that the gospel in the Greek G2098 εὐαγγέλιον euaggelion n. simply means a good message or Good news. The scriptures provided in this same linked post show that the application and use of this Greek Word εὐαγγέλιον is to the scriptures of both the old and new testament showing that all the Word of God is God's good news (gospel) because it is the plan of salvation for all mankind that points to Jesus as God's sacrifice for the sins of the world which is the central theme of the scriptures in both the old and new testament. As posted earlier what Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15 was the old testament scriptures linking them to the life, death and resurrection of Jesus which is the central theme of the bible (gospel). This is even demonstrated in the chapter you put forward in Corinthians where Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:3, For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures. Paul here is also linking gospel to the scriptures from 1 Corinthians 15:1-3. I have already provided many scripture examples showing that the gospel is applied to the Word of God in both the old and new testament scripture linked in the post above. They are there for all to see.

God bless

 

[Cormack]

I’m asking for didactic verses that define the content of the Gospel, so replying that the Gospel means “good news” doesn’t answer my question.

Can you share anything didactic that makes your case? Respectfully on my end, I’m beginning to think you cannot. So if you don’t provide any by your next reply, I’ll wish you a good day.

God bless.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I’m asking for didactic verses that define the content of the Gospel, so replying that the Gospel means “good news” doesn’t answer my question.

Your repeating yourself here dear friend, please read the post above yours. So there is no misunderstanding between us, are you trying to argue that the gospel is not the Word of God and if so how as even 1 Corinthians 15 links the gospel to scripture from the old testament and the life, death and resurrection of Jesus in 1 Corinthians 15:1-3?

 

[pasifika]

Actually, no, not infant, but departed from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith: those who depart from these start to deny the goodness of the law, and become vain in their thinking, and start to affirm things they know nothing about--that is the commencement of the reprobate mind, which is the gift of God to them who love not the truth.

Hello Religiot, Christ is the Law for those who believe in His name..the letter of the law cannot provide anyone with that knowledge BUT the Spirit. Knowledge is one of spiritual gifts in which the Spirit will give to anyone according to His desire..

Some follow the letter of the law to be righteous... their works leads to death...

Some were given gifts of the Holy Spirit, their faith leads to holiness and life....

I'm not against the 10 commandments is just that it doesn't change us from our evil ways...
If you want to change ask God for His Spirit...Not only He teaches you But also leads you to holiness...

 

[Cormack]

Your repeating yourself here dear friend,

It’s a regrettable consequence of posters not answering the question.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It’s a regrettable consequence of posters not answering the question.

True, please see my last post to you I asked you some questions there for clarification and you did not answer them.

 

[Cormack]

True, please see my last post to you I asked you some questions there for clarification.

As my first message already explained, I’m not arguing for any side. So I’m not arguing for anything. Rather my messages have asked repeatedly if you can provide didactic material in favour of your view. Can you? You understand what I mean by didactic right?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

As my first message already explained, I’m not arguing for any side. So I’m not arguing for anything. Rather my messages have asked repeatedly if you can provide didactic material in favour of your view.

My argument is that the scriptures in post # 9 linked show that wherever the gospel is used it is to the application to the Word of God in both the old and new testament scriptures therefore it is the Word of God that defines the gospel which simply means God's good news of salvation for all mankind. There is not one single definition in the scriptures or a scripture text that says that the gospel is the Word of God. That does not mean that the gospel is not the Word of God as the scriptures collectively demonstrate that it is. Your application of 1 Corinthians 15 even demonstrates this in 1 Corinthians 15:1-3 where Paul is revealing the gospel of Jesus Christ as the promised Messiah through the scriptures. Yet the scriptures here being used are the old testament scripture which was the bible in the days of Jesus and the Apostles as there was then no new testament scriptures written then as we have them today.

 

[Cormack]

My argument is that

That’s my point. You have an argument, some presupposition, paradigmatic thought construct that you insist is within scripture, but you can’t share with me one section of scripture that explicitly argues in favour of your definition.

Paul writing Jesus died for humanity “according to Scripture” simply means that the death is something predicted within OT scripture. It’s according to OT scripture, not synonymous with OT scripture.

You have no didactic verses that argue for your viewpoint. You have leaps in logic (which you’re entitle to.)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That’s my point. You have an argument, some presupposition, paradigmatic thought construct that you insist is within scripture, but you can’t share with me one section of scripture that explicitly argues in favour of your definition.

Paul writing Jesus died for humanity “according to Scripture” simply means that the death is something predicted within OT scripture. It’s according to OT scripture, not synonymous with OT scripture.

You have no didactic verses that argue for your viewpoint. You have leaps in logic (which you’re entitle to.)

Not really, as posted in the the post you are quoting from already and the scriptures already provided in post # 9 linked the gospels application even in 1 Corinthians 15 is to both the old and new testament scripture. It is not applied to a single definition of the scriptures but to the scriptures collectively. As shown through the scriptures earlier the gospel is applied to both the old and new testament scriptures in the linked post above which is God's good news of salvation for all mankind.