What is the purpose of Christ's resurrection concerning our salvation?

[Fish14]

The purpose of His death was to die for our sins, and thus pay for them, but what about the resurrection?
Does it just prove that He is God?

 

[rockytopva]

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. - 1 Corinthians 15

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

It proves God has the power to do what He promises.
Resurrection is the basis of Christianity. So I think your question might be why faith is based there and if it's your hope also... because imo that's what a person's life basics stems from, whether a person is planted on rock or sand...

1 Corinthians 15:14
And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
Romans 8:11
If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The purpose of His death was to die for our sins, and thus pay for them, but what about the resurrection?
Does it just prove that He is God?

"If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit that dwells in you." - Romans 8:11

"Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, then our proclamation has been in vain and your faith has been in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified of God that he raised Christ—whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have died in Christ have perished. If for this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have died. For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, after he has destroyed every ruler and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is plain that this does not include the one who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to the one who put all things in subjection under him, so that God may be all in all." - 1 Corinthians 15:12-28

"But our citizenship is from heaven, and it is from there that we are expecting a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. He will transform the body of our humiliation that it may be conformed to the body of his glory, by the power that also enables him to make all things subject to himself." - Philippians 3:20-21

"When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went and met him, while Mary stayed at home. Martha said to Jesus, 'Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. But even now I know that God will give you whatever you ask of him.' Jesus said to her, 'Your brother will rise again.' Martha said to him, 'I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.' Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?' She said to him, 'Yes, Lord, I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one coming into the world.'" - John 11:20-27

"'Very truly, I tell you, the hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself; and he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. Do not be astonished at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and will come out—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.'" - John 5:25-29

"Your dead shall live, their corpses shall rise.
O dwellers in the dust, awake and sing for joy!
For your dew is a radiant dew,
and the earth will give birth to those long dead." - Isaiah 26:19

"I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen." - From the Apostles' Creed

(original Latin: carnis resurrectionem, the "resurrection of flesh")

The resurrection of Christ is to the defeat and victory over sin, death, hell, the devil, and the world; by it He has trampled down the ancient doors of Hell, made the devil captive, destroyed the very power of death, and gives life to all: "For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ."

For the whole of creation is groaning, laboring under the futility of death, longing for "for the revealing of the children of God; for the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and will obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning in labor pains until now; and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly while we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies." (Romans 8:19-23)

For we hope and wait for Christ's return, the resurrection of the dead, and the renewal of all things:

"For I am about to create new heavens
and a new earth;
the former things shall not be remembered
or come to mind.
But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I am creating;
for I am about to create Jerusalem as a joy,
and its people as a delight.
I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
and delight in my people;
no more shall the sound of weeping be heard in it,
or the cry of distress." - Isaiah 65:17-19

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying,

“See, the home of God is among mortals.
He will dwell with them;
they will be his peoples,
and God himself will be with them;
he will wipe every tear from their eyes.
Death will be no more;
mourning and crying and pain will be no more,
for the first things have passed away.”

And the one who was seated on the throne said, “See, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true.” Then he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give water as a gift from the spring of the water of life. Those who conquer will inherit these things, and I will be their God and they will be my children." - Revelation 21:1-7

Christ is risen, as the One who has defeated all the powers of this fallen age, and in Him there is the victory of life over death, peace with God, and life everlasting in the future world when God makes all things new. in Him we have a place with God, now through faith and, at His coming, in the Age to Come, the world without end.

Christians do not hope to go to a place "up in the sky" called heaven to live forever as disembodied spirits, but to be resurrected bodily and dwell with God here on the earth forever. "Going to heaven" is temporary, it's called the "intermediate state", as it lasts only from death to resurrection as a rest and comfort for those who have fallen asleep in Christ until the Day He comes, in glory. In the end God will be all in all, we will be His people, and there shall be peace and justice and joy upon the earth forever, glory to God.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Winken]

"If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit that dwells in you." - Romans 8:11

"Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, then our proclamation has been in vain and your faith has been in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified of God that he raised Christ—whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have died in Christ have perished. If for this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have died. For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, after he has destroyed every ruler and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is plain that this does not include the one who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to the one who put all things in subjection under him, so that God may be all in all." - 1 Corinthians 15:12-28

"But our citizenship is from heaven, and it is from there that we are expecting a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. He will transform the body of our humiliation that it may be conformed to the body of his glory, by the power that also enables him to make all things subject to himself." - Philippians 3:20-21

"When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went and met him, while Mary stayed at home. Martha said to Jesus, 'Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. But even now I know that God will give you whatever you ask of him.' Jesus said to her, 'Your brother will rise again.' Martha said to him, 'I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.' Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?' She said to him, 'Yes, Lord, I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one coming into the world.'" - John 11:20-27

"'Very truly, I tell you, the hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself; and he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. Do not be astonished at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and will come out—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.'" - John 5:25-29

"Your dead shall live, their corpses shall rise.
O dwellers in the dust, awake and sing for joy!
For your dew is a radiant dew,
and the earth will give birth to those long dead." - Isaiah 26:19

"I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen." - From the Apostles' Creed

(original Latin: carnis resurrectionem, the "resurrection of flesh")

The resurrection of Christ is to the defeat and victory over sin, death, hell, the devil, and the world; by it He has trampled down the ancient doors of Hell, made the devil captive, destroyed the very power of death, and gives life to all: "For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ."

For the whole of creation is groaning, laboring under the futility of death, longing for "for the revealing of the children of God; for the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and will obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning in labor pains until now; and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly while we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies." (Romans 8:19-23)

For we hope and wait for Christ's return, the resurrection of the dead, and the renewal of all things:

"For I am about to create new heavens
and a new earth;
the former things shall not be remembered
or come to mind.
But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I am creating;
for I am about to create Jerusalem as a joy,
and its people as a delight.
I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
and delight in my people;
no more shall the sound of weeping be heard in it,
or the cry of distress." - Isaiah 65:17-19

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying,

“See, the home of God is among mortals.
He will dwell with them;
they will be his peoples,
and God himself will be with them;
he will wipe every tear from their eyes.
Death will be no more;
mourning and crying and pain will be no more,
for the first things have passed away.”

And the one who was seated on the throne said, “See, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true.” Then he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give water as a gift from the spring of the water of life. Those who conquer will inherit these things, and I will be their God and they will be my children." - Revelation 21:1-7

Christ is risen, as the One who has defeated all the powers of this fallen age, and in Him there is the victory of life over death, peace with God, and life everlasting in the future world when God makes all things new. in Him we have a place with God, now through faith and, at His coming, in the Age to Come, the world without end.

Christians do not hope to go to a place "up in the sky" called heaven to live forever as disembodied spirits, but to be resurrected bodily and dwell with God here on the earth forever. "Going to heaven" is temporary, it's called the "intermediate state", as it lasts only from death to resurrection as a rest and comfort for those who have fallen asleep in Christ until the Day He comes, in glory. In the end God will be all in all, we will be His people, and there shall be peace and justice and joy upon the earth forever, glory to God.

-CryptoLutheran

"Go, tell it on the mountains......"

 

[hedrick]

The idea that Christ's death saved us is called the "atonement." There are lots of ideas about just how the atonement worked, i.e. why Christ's death saved us. Most of the ideas actually involve both his death and resurrection.

Paul's explanation is in Rom 6. He says that we are united to Christ in faith, and thus we die with him to sin and rise again to new life. In some ways it's actually the resurrection that is the most important, since that's what gives us the new life.

Paul's idea is that Christ is the first to enter the new life of the resurrection, but that though him we all enter new life. (1 Cor 15:20).

 

[jimmyjimmy]

The purpose of His death was to die for our sins, and thus pay for them, but what about the resurrection?
Does it just prove that He is God?

No. He came to undo what sin had done. It's proof of our future resurrection.

 

[~Anastasia~]

"If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit that dwells in you." - Romans 8:11

"Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, then our proclamation has been in vain and your faith has been in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified of God that he raised Christ—whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have died in Christ have perished. If for this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have died. For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, after he has destroyed every ruler and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is plain that this does not include the one who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to the one who put all things in subjection under him, so that God may be all in all." - 1 Corinthians 15:12-28

"But our citizenship is from heaven, and it is from there that we are expecting a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. He will transform the body of our humiliation that it may be conformed to the body of his glory, by the power that also enables him to make all things subject to himself." - Philippians 3:20-21

"When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went and met him, while Mary stayed at home. Martha said to Jesus, 'Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. But even now I know that God will give you whatever you ask of him.' Jesus said to her, 'Your brother will rise again.' Martha said to him, 'I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.' Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?' She said to him, 'Yes, Lord, I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one coming into the world.'" - John 11:20-27

"'Very truly, I tell you, the hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself; and he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. Do not be astonished at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and will come out—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.'" - John 5:25-29

"Your dead shall live, their corpses shall rise.
O dwellers in the dust, awake and sing for joy!
For your dew is a radiant dew,
and the earth will give birth to those long dead." - Isaiah 26:19

"I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen." - From the Apostles' Creed

(original Latin: carnis resurrectionem, the "resurrection of flesh")

The resurrection of Christ is to the defeat and victory over sin, death, hell, the devil, and the world; by it He has trampled down the ancient doors of Hell, made the devil captive, destroyed the very power of death, and gives life to all: "For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ."

For the whole of creation is groaning, laboring under the futility of death, longing for "for the revealing of the children of God; for the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and will obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning in labor pains until now; and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly while we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies." (Romans 8:19-23)

For we hope and wait for Christ's return, the resurrection of the dead, and the renewal of all things:

"For I am about to create new heavens
and a new earth;
the former things shall not be remembered
or come to mind.
But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I am creating;
for I am about to create Jerusalem as a joy,
and its people as a delight.
I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
and delight in my people;
no more shall the sound of weeping be heard in it,
or the cry of distress." - Isaiah 65:17-19

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying,

“See, the home of God is among mortals.
He will dwell with them;
they will be his peoples,
and God himself will be with them;
he will wipe every tear from their eyes.
Death will be no more;
mourning and crying and pain will be no more,
for the first things have passed away.”

And the one who was seated on the throne said, “See, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true.” Then he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give water as a gift from the spring of the water of life. Those who conquer will inherit these things, and I will be their God and they will be my children." - Revelation 21:1-7

Christ is risen, as the One who has defeated all the powers of this fallen age, and in Him there is the victory of life over death, peace with God, and life everlasting in the future world when God makes all things new. in Him we have a place with God, now through faith and, at His coming, in the Age to Come, the world without end.

Christians do not hope to go to a place "up in the sky" called heaven to live forever as disembodied spirits, but to be resurrected bodily and dwell with God here on the earth forever. "Going to heaven" is temporary, it's called the "intermediate state", as it lasts only from death to resurrection as a rest and comfort for those who have fallen asleep in Christ until the Day He comes, in glory. In the end God will be all in all, we will be His people, and there shall be peace and justice and joy upon the earth forever, glory to God.

-CryptoLutheran

What ViaCrucis said.

Christ's death and resurrection are so much more glorious and accomplished so much more than what we boil them down into this simple theory or that one.

Most importantly, He defeated death, which was the enemy introduced by sin. We need no more fear death, and He has made a way for us, and all of creation with us, to be reconciled to God, rescued from sin, overcome death - Glory to God!

It wasn't just to prove a point. (Though it does do that as well.)

 

[Fish14]

Most importantly, He defeated death, which was the enemy introduced by sin.

Why did He need to defeat death?
I won't go to Hell, because Jesus was punished for my sins, and that's enough. Why does His resurrection need to be in the gospel? It's very good to hear that He's alive, but I don't know what is has to do with our salvation.

1 Corinthians 15:3-5 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day ___________ according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Why did He need to defeat death?
I won't go to Hell, because Jesus was punished for my sins, and that's enough. Why does His resurrection need to be in the gospel? It's very good to hear that He's alive, but I don't know what is has to do with our salvation.

1 Corinthians 15:3-5 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day ___________ according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve.

Why was Jesus baptized with a baptism of repentance? Did Jesus need to repent of anything?

Understanding that Jesus "died for your sins" is only understanding half of the message of the gospel. It's missing half of the work that He did on our behalf.

Jesus not only died the death we should have died, He also lived the life we should have lived, and He did those both as our substitute.

You see, forgiveness of your sin does not quality you for eternal life with Christ. You must also have lived a righteous life. In other words, sin is not just commission. It is also omission. Jesus died for your sins and lived for your righteousness.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Why did He need to defeat death?
I won't go to Hell, because Jesus was punished for my sins, and that's enough. Why does His resurrection need to be in the gospel? It's very good to hear that He's alive, but I don't know what is has to do with our salvation.

1 Corinthians 15:3-5 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day ___________ according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve.

Because all of humanity is under the curse of death. Death entered the world through the sin of one man. Because of that sin, everyone dies, but this was not God's plan in the beginning.

You are looking at Christ's death as a "get out of hell free" card, but just because you don't experience torment when you die, does not mean that your body would be resurrected, nor that you would live forever in the presence of God. These are three separate things - (1) healing from personal sin, (2) reversal of the curse of death due to Adam's sin, (3) reconciliation to God, and there is also another big one - (4) being restored to the image and likeness of God through being made like Christ. It also ignores (5) the restoration of all things (the cosmos).

To consider His death as simply "payment for my personal sin" is reducing the Gospel to a simple legal transaction between an individual and God. But there is more damage caused by sin, to each of us individually, all of us corporately, and to creation as a whole - and God is interested in healing ALL of that. Not just a legal transaction with the individual.

And you have asked "why Christ was resurrected." Consider this - if He is God (and He is), the very Source of Life ... how can He possibly remain in death? He had to become incarnate in a human body so that He could die, but it is impossible that Life should remain locked within death. It was the very action of Christ God dying that destroyed death itself.

This is directly mentioned in the Scriptures, by the way (2 Timothy 1:10 and many others). I realize what you quoted is Scripture, but we often lose sight of the whole Truth when we take one passage and think it contains the whole truth such that nothing else can be true as well. This is why some people doggedly toss Scriptures at one another when arguing a point, as if Scripture contradicts itself. It doesn't. What you generally see is lack of full understanding leading to such arguments.

I hope this helps a little.

 

[hedrick]

Why did He need to defeat death?
I won't go to Hell, because Jesus was punished for my sins, and that's enough. Why does His resurrection need to be in the gospel? It's very good to hear that He's alive, but I don't know what is has to do with our salvation.

1 Corinthians 15:3-5 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day ___________ according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve.

Remember what I said above about there many a number of ideas about how the atonement worked? You’re taking one idea, based on one Biblical image, and ignoring the rest. This is from a recent PCUSA confessional document:

“God's reconciling act in Jesus Christ is a mystery which the Scriptures describe in various ways. It is called the sacrifice of a lamb, a shepherd's life given for his sheep, atonement by a priest; again it is ransom of a slave, payment of a debt, vicarious satisfaction of a legal penalty, and victory over the powers of evil. These are expressions of a truth which remains beyond the reach of all theory in the depths of God's love for man. They reveal the gravity, cost, and sure achievement of God's reconciling work.”

The idea that you reflect is called penal satisfaction. It’s the idea that God’s justice commits him to punish someone, and Christ takes on our punishment. First, that particular concept of the atonement is actually the most recent. It didn’t develop in that form until the 16th Cent. And the person who is credited with developing it (John Calvin) used a number of different understandings, not just that one. But even if it’s a reasonable understanding (and I don’t think it is), it’s only one of many. Many of the Biblical treatments, some of which I pointed out, see the resurrection as a key part of Christ’s redeeming action.

Did you look up the passages I pointed to? Start with Romans 6:1–11. It doesn’t see Jesus’ death as a punishment. Rather, it’s based on the idea that when we die, we are freed from sin. Through faith we’re united to Christ, and we die with him. That frees us from sin. Then we rise with him, and enter new life. So his death and resurrection work together.

Even Jesus’ own words don’t suggest that his death is a punishment. He says his blood is the blood of the new covenant. This is almost certainly a reference in Jer 31:31. Jeremiah forsees a new covenant in which God’s teachings are written in our hearts, and everyone is forgiven. Why blood? Because in the OT, when you make a covenant, there’s a sacrifice involved. So Jesus’ own words see his death as a covenant sacrifice, not a sin offering. Hebrews 9 and 10 take this interpretation.

You need to read on in 1 Cor 15 to see where Paul goes with the passage you quoted. Note that it says not just that Christ died but that he was resurrected. And that's not the end. In 1 Cor 15:20 ff, Paul bases our hope of resurrection on Jesus’ resurrection. Just as Adam brought death, Jesus brings life. Through being one of Christ’s we will have eternal life, in him. The concept of having new life in Christ is present throughout John.

As in Rom 6, Paul's idea is that Christ's death frees us from sin, and his resurrection brings us new life. Note, however, that he doesn't say Christ's death frees us from sin because he's taking our punishment. 1 Cor doesn't give an explanation. Rom 6 does. The key passage is vs 6-7: "We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin. For whoever has died is freed from sin." Nothing about punishment. Rather, death automatically frees us from sin, so when we die with Christ we're freed from sin. That frees to be able to live the new life that we get through his resurrection.

For Paul, being forgiven is only the start: "For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life." 1 Cor 15:17 is particularly blunt: "If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins." So he obviously sees a connection.

Other parts of the NT refer to Jesus as a ransom, and other images. There are lots of different explanations. It’s a mistake to take just one of these images and ignore the others. Particularly the one you’re referring to, since it’s not the major explanation used by Jesus, Paul, or Hebrews.

 

[hedrick]

To Fish14:

I hope we don’t sound hostile. It’s really good that you’re asking questions. It sounds to me like the theology you’ve heard is kind of one-sided, emphasizing certain parts of NT teaching to the exclusion of others.

I know several of the people who have responded. You’re getting responses from a variety of theological traditions: Reformed, Lutheran, Orthodox, Pentecostal. One thing CF is good at is expanding your horizons by showing you other Christian approaches.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Yes, I hope I don't sound hostile either. Sometimes I only have a moment to post, and try to just get the information in there. It is never my intent to bully anyone or beat them over the head with it though. But I don't always have time to say things as carefully as I might like to do, or to fully think of how I might sound.

Thanks for pointing that out, Hedrick.

And by the way, I want to think a bit more about your last post, Hedrick. It's not something I have heard emphasized, but I'm more of the mind that Christ accomplished MUCH with His death and resurrection, and if something does not contradict, and especially since it IS supported, I'm happy to look into it more deeply. Thanks for that.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

According to the scriptures ... faith built on rock and not on sand because the decision is based on accurately gathered information. John the Baptist's disciples came to Jesus to ask if He was the one that had been promised or if they should wait for another. Jesus answered according to scripture as proof that it was being fulfilled in Him. His disciples on the Emmaus road needed proof again concerning those things Luke 24:26-27 and it's necessary for us to see it too.

Jesus offered Jonah being in the belly of the whale as the only sign but are there more in the OT? Hosea 6:2 “After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will raise us up, that we may live before him” can be sited but it's not referenced by the NT except maybe in Paul's 3-day motive, and Psalms 16:10 not seeing corruption can be explained away too. The point is belief in Christ constitutes seeing that in those scriptures.

You pretty much have to go to New Testament writings 1 Corinthians 15 for the explanation of the events that the disciples witnessed. What they experienced constituted their belief. And that's what the faith that is based on that foundation is about too. It's a hope in that which is not seen. Accurately gathered information for belief in the resurrection comes from faith built on faith. The initial basis for the foundation is the super-natural revelation that first occurred when we first believed, that held on to, plus the many times that He's worked on our behalf gains insight into the fact that He is alive and the hope is in His work that He will complete the good work that He began in us.

 

[seashale76]

The purpose of His death was to die for our sins, and thus pay for them, but what about the resurrection?
Does it just prove that He is God?

Look up the Christus Victor view of atonement. That's the Orthodox view.

St. John Chrysostom expressed it best, I think:
The Paschal Homily of St. John Chrysostom

The Paschal sermon of St John Chrysostom is read aloud in every Orthodox parish on the morning of the Great and Holy Pascha of Jesus Christ. According to the tradition of the Church, no one sits during the reading of St John’s sermon, but all stand and listen with attentiveness.


If any man be devout and loveth God,
Let him enjoy this fair and radiant triumphal feast!
If any man be a wise servant,
Let him rejoicing enter into the joy of his Lord.

If any have laboured long in fasting,
Let him how receive his recompense.
If any have wrought from the first hour,
Let him today receive his just reward.
If any have come at the third hour,
Let him with thankfulness keep the feast.
If any have arrived at the sixth hour,
Let him have no misgivings;
Because he shall in nowise be deprived therefore.
If any have delayed until the ninth hour,
Let him draw near, fearing nothing.
And if any have tarried even until the eleventh hour,
Let him, also, be not alarmed at his tardiness.

For the Lord, who is jealous of his honour,
Will accept the last even as the first.
He giveth rest unto him who cometh at the eleventh hour,
Even as unto him who hath wrought from the first hour.
And He showeth mercy upon the last,
And careth for the first;
And to the one He giveth,
And upon the other He bestoweth gifts.
And He both accepteth the deeds,
And welcometh the intention,
And honoureth the acts and praises the offering.

Wherefore, enter ye all into the joy of your Lord;
Receive your reward,
Both the first, and likewise the second.
You rich and poor together, hold high festival!
You sober and you heedless, honour the day!
Rejoice today, both you who have fasted
And you who have disregarded the fast.
The table is full-laden; feast ye all sumptuously.
The calf is fatted; let no one go hungry away.
Enjoy ye all the feast of faith:
Receive ye all the riches of loving-kindness.

Let no one bewail his poverty,
For the universal Kingdom has been revealed.
Let no one weep for his iniquities,
For pardon has shown forth from the grave.
Let no one fear death,
For the Saviour’s death has set us free.
He that was held prisoner of it has annihilated it.

By descending into Hell, He made Hell captive.
He embittered it when it tasted of His flesh.
And Isaiah, foretelling this, did cry:
Hell, said he, was embittered
When it encountered Thee in the lower regions.

It was embittered, for it was abolished.
It was embittered, for it was mocked.
It was embittered, for it was slain.
It was embittered, for it was overthrown.
It was embittered, for it was fettered in chains.
It took a body, and met God face to face.
It took earth, and encountered Heaven.
It took that which was seen, and fell upon the unseen.

O Death, where is thy sting?
O Hell, where is thy victory?

Christ is risen, and thou art overthrown!
Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen!
Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice!
Christ is risen, and life reigns!
Christ is risen, and not one dead remains in the grave.
For Christ, being risen from the dead,
Is become the first-fruits of those who have fallen asleep.

To Him be glory and dominion
Unto ages of ages.
Amen.

 

[Fish14]

Remember what I said above about there many a number of ideas about how the atonement worked? You’re taking one idea, based on one Biblical image, and ignoring the rest. This is from a recent PCUSA confessional document:

“God's reconciling act in Jesus Christ is a mystery which the Scriptures describe in various ways. It is called the sacrifice of a lamb, a shepherd's life given for his sheep, atonement by a priest; again it is ransom of a slave, payment of a debt, vicarious satisfaction of a legal penalty, and victory over the powers of evil. These are expressions of a truth which remains beyond the reach of all theory in the depths of God's love for man. They reveal the gravity, cost, and sure achievement of God's reconciling work.”

The idea that you reflect is called penal satisfaction. It’s the idea that God’s justice commits him to punish someone, and Christ takes on our punishment. First, that particular concept of the atonement is actually the most recent. It didn’t develop in that form until the 16th Cent. And the person who is credited with developing it (John Calvin) used a number of different understandings, not just that one. But even if it’s a reasonable understanding (and I don’t think it is), it’s only one of many. Many of the Biblical treatments, some of which I pointed out, see the resurrection as a key part of Christ’s redeeming action.

Did you look up the passages I pointed to? Start with Romans 6:1–11. It doesn’t see Jesus’ death as a punishment. Rather, it’s based on the idea that when we die, we are freed from sin. Through faith we’re united to Christ, and we die with him. That frees us from sin. Then we rise with him, and enter new life. So his death and resurrection work together.

Even Jesus’ own words don’t suggest that his death is a punishment. He says his blood is the blood of the new covenant. This is almost certainly a reference in Jer 31:31. Jeremiah forsees a new covenant in which God’s teachings are written in our hearts, and everyone is forgiven. Why blood? Because in the OT, when you make a covenant, there’s a sacrifice involved. So Jesus’ own words see his death as a covenant sacrifice, not a sin offering. Hebrews 9 and 10 take this interpretation.

You need to read on in 1 Cor 15 to see where Paul goes with the passage you quoted. Note that it says not just that Christ died but that he was resurrected. And that's not the end. In 1 Cor 15:20 ff, Paul bases our hope of resurrection on Jesus’ resurrection. Just as Adam brought death, Jesus brings life. Through being one of Christ’s we will have eternal life, in him. The concept of having new life in Christ is present throughout John.

As in Rom 6, Paul's idea is that Christ's death frees us from sin, and his resurrection brings us new life. Note, however, that he doesn't say Christ's death frees us from sin because he's taking our punishment. 1 Cor doesn't give an explanation. Rom 6 does. The key passage is vs 6-7: "We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin. For whoever has died is freed from sin." Nothing about punishment. Rather, death automatically frees us from sin, so when we die with Christ we're freed from sin.

Sorry if you have already answered these questions I continually come up with, but how does my faith enable me to die and resurrect with Christ?

Why do you believe you're saved?

• In the biblical gospel of grace, the answer starts with "Christ": We are saved because Christ died for our sins ... was buried ... rose again (1 Cor. 15)
  
• If your answer starts with "I", you have a legalistic gospel: "I did this and that to earn my way to Heaven, I am good enough to go to Heaven, I prayed a prayer to be saved"

So should I think I'm saved because I died with Jesus and I resurrected with Him? It sounds like we both do something for my salvation. Or do you mean "God killed and resurrected me and Himself"?

I have believed the gospel of Corinthians 15 with penal substitution. I didn't care much about the resurrection part, until I found a flaw in my theory. Why will God resurrect me? I just don't die twice if the God takes my death penalty away. I still have to die because of Adam's sin.
How can I take part of Christ's resurrection? What do I need to believe??

I hope I don’t sound hostile.

 

[hedrick]

In the biblical gospel of grace, the answer starts with "Christ": We are saved because Christ died for our sins ... was buried ... rose again (1 Cor. 15)
If your answer starts with "I", you have a legalistic gospel: "I did this and that to earn my way to Heaven, I am good enough to go to Heaven, I prayed a prayer to be saved"
So should I think I'm saved because I died with Jesus and I resurrected with Him? It sounds like we both do something for my salvation. Or do you mean "God killed and resurrected me and Himself"?

It’s always risky to claim that Scripture is clear about anything, since you can find people who interpret it in different ways. But Paul says we die and rise with Christ and we are justified by faith; John says we have to be born again by the Spirit; the Synoptics say that we have to repent and follow Jesus. To say that no change in us is involved in being Christian is really hard to justify Scripturally.

Of all Christian traditions, Calvinism has tried to minimize the human element. Those who are saved are elect from before the foundation of the world; if it were up to us we’d reject an offer of salvation. But Calvin’s soteriology still involves faith. It’s just that God brings us to faith. If you want to avoid starting any sentence with “I” you can say that God brings us to faith, and makes us die and rise with him.

One thing many people don’t realize is just how important this was to Calvin. A lot of us think the heart of Calvin’s theology was our “mystical union” (his term) with Christ. Through that union, Christ takes our sin and we get his righteousness. (I should note that I have some exegetical issues with this use of righteousness.)

You’re right to quote 1 Cor 15. Christ died and was raised for us. Remember that the point of 1 Cor 15 is to emphasize the importance of the resurrection. 1 Cor 15:22 says that just as we died in Adam we will be made alive in Christ. The context implies that this is a reference to our future resurrection, thus basing our eternal life on our being “in Christ” (a common phrase for Paul) and rising with him. A more detailed explanation is given in Rom 6. It connects rising with Christ with two things: newness of life now (6:4) and eternal life (6:8).

[@ViaCrucis: The one tradition I don't know well is the later Lutheran one. Melanchthon seems to have taught a completely external concept of justification, but it was my impression that even he said that it had to be appropriated by us in faith. Is that right? Would he have accepted Paul's concept of dying and rising with Christ?]

 

[bling]

Sorry if you have already answered these questions I continually come up with, but how does my faith enable me to die and resurrect with Christ?

Why do you believe you're saved?

• In the biblical gospel of grace, the answer starts with "Christ": We are saved because Christ died for our sins ... was buried ... rose again (1 Cor. 15)
  
• If your answer starts with "I", you have a legalistic gospel: "I did this and that to earn my way to Heaven, I am good enough to go to Heaven, I prayed a prayer to be saved"

So should I think I'm saved because I died with Jesus and I resurrected with Him? It sounds like we both do something for my salvation. Or do you mean "God killed and resurrected me and Himself"?

I have believed the gospel of Corinthians 15 with penal substitution. I didn't care much about the resurrection part, until I found a flaw in my theory. Why will God resurrect me? I just don't die twice if the God takes my death penalty away. I still have to die because of Adam's sin.
How can I take part of Christ's resurrection? What do I need to believe??

I hope I don’t sound hostile.

This is a much more complex question, but a good question to ask. It can take a lot to explain.

There are only “theories” of atonement out there since none do a good job explaining the exceptions they will not address. Penal Substitution has lots of issues one of which is the lack of need for the resurrection in the Theory itself. Christus Victor really tries to explain the resurrection without an explanation for the death, but need to have Christ die, so it falls back on the traditional “Ransom Theory” of atonement.

You bring up the point several times about “how does my faith enable me to die … with Christ” and “So should I think I'm saved because I died with Jesus” and "God killed … me and Himself"?

Paul emphasizes the concept of “dying with Christ and even being crucified with Christ”:

RO. 8:17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Philippians 3:10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,

Gal. 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Have you experienced crucifixion? Paul says he did, but Paul was not one of the thieves alongside Christ so how did Paul suffer this same (equal) torture, humiliation and murder?

Heb. 13: 3 Continue to remember those in prison as if you were together with them in prison, and those who are mistreated as if you yourselves were suffering.

Heb. 13:3 kind of explains how this is done: in remembering the cross we empathically experience the worst possible torture and death we could experience and we come to this realization: Christ was willingly doing this “for” us, but also because of us.

Just as those 3000 on Pentecost experienced a death blow to their heart ( Acts 2:37) with the realization they crucified the Christ (the worst possible thing they could ever do and experience), we to, just as they did, can experience a death blow to our heart as we come to the realization of what we did. As often as we take the Lord’s Supper we are reminded of what we did and fall to our kneed in pain, but there is hope. Christ did not stay in the tomb and we do not have to remain debilitated, he is risen! He forgives us and the cruel torturous death we experienced becomes part of God’s Loving discipline, so now we can finally stand “justified” in front of God as any child who has willingly experienced the Loving discipline of a wonderful parent.

I personally could have kept Christ from going to the cross, so I am to blame.