What is the object of the Law? Obedience or Love ???

[Carl Emerson]

Hi there,

We are told there is no Law against Love.

We are told that if we knew the difference between compassion and sacrifice, we would not have condemned the innocent.

I invite discussion on this important truth.

The Law was never meant to be an instrument of control, but a message from God's heart for our good.

 

[d taylor]

I say neither, it was to show that you were a sinful dirty dog.

God gave the Law to reveal His standard of absolute righteousness to convict us all of our true guilt before Him, so that we would see our need for The Messiah and His free gift of Eternal Life.

That a sinner can not obedience their way back to God.

What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

At least one important purpose of the law is to show us, by failing at the attempt, that nobody will be justified by the law. It was meant to be failed. In this we see we are sinful and need to be saved by grace.

Romans 3:19-20 KJV
19. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

I look at the words of Jesus to be the final nail.

Matthew 5:48 KJV
48. Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Who can do this? Nobody.
This is why we need grace and the gospel.

 

[Fervent]

One thing that is easily missed is that the law was never about bringing about righteousness but was a gift to the people on account of the favor they had been given as a nation. Obedience to the law did not make someone holy, but true obedience was the path to the promises of the covenant. The issue with the scribes and the pharisee's is that they had turned this gift, the map for prosperous living, into an onerous thing and a weight around the neck of the people ruining its beautiful purpose and turning it towards the curses within it.

 

[Carl Emerson]

God gave the Law to reveal His standard of absolute righteousness to convict us all of our true guilt before Him, so that we would see our need for The Messiah and His free gift of Eternal Life.

That a sinner can not obedience their way back to God.

I suggest the Law in this regard did not do as well as Jesus did in person.

Going by the failure of the Jews to come to faith via the Law something much greater had to be done.

 

[ralliann]

Hi there,

We are told there is no Law against Love.

We are told that if we knew the difference between compassion and sacrifice, we would not have condemned the innocent.

I invite discussion on this important truth.

The Law was never meant to be an instrument of control, but a message from God's heart for our good.

It says if you knew what was meant. Not the difference between.

 

[Fervent]

I say neither, it was to show that you were a sinful dirty dog.

God gave the Law to reveal His standard of absolute righteousness to convict us all of our true guilt before Him, so that we would see our need for The Messiah and His free gift of Eternal Life.

That a sinner can not obedience their way back to God.

What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

This view is essentially a misunderrstanding of what Paul has written in Romans. Certainly the law stands to convict us, but it's not on the basis of righteousness. The reality is that righteousness is not something that can be codified as a list of "dos" and "don'ts" but is by acting in a way that an individual would act. Righteousness was revealed in Christ and Christ alone, the law was given in part as a restraint to men's evil. Given that God is a personal God if we want to live righteously that requires actively pursuing Him, instead men often look for shortcuts like rule books and other rigid structures that are incapable of revealing righteousness.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It says if you knew what was meant. Not the difference between.

Matthew 12:7
But if you had known what this means: ‘I desire compassion, rather than sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent.

 

[com7fy8]

"Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith." (Galatians 3:24)

So, your title asks if the law is for obedience or love.

But this says the law was for bringing us to Jesus. And the object is so "we might be justified by faith." Being justified by faith would be what God does, not what we do by loving or obeying. So, may be we could say it was not for obeying or loving, that we could do, in any case, but for what God is able to do.

But ones might say faith is believing which we are able to do. But I understand that faith is our connection (1 Corinthians 6:17) with God and how He works in us > by means of how His love effects us > "faith working through love" > in Galatians 5:6.

In any case, it seems to me that we needed to be changed by God so we have the character to love and obey Him. And this would not come without God changing us so we become how He wants us to be like Jesus so we love like Jesus.

But the law can give us things to expose how we are not loving and obeying like Jesus. So, this can be good, how the law does bring out how God is and how we can love with Him . . . so we could see our need for this and be brought to trust in Jesus (Ephesians 1:12).

It says those who have been taught by God . . . who have learned . . . come to Jesus >

"'It is written in the prophets, "And they shall all be taught by God." Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.'" (John 6:45)

I would say God uses His law of Moses to teach people, so they can get some realization of who and how God is and how He wants people to become and to love. And with this He brings people to Jesus who is able to get us changed to be with God and to become the way God wants and to love the way God in us has us loving (Ephesians 5:2).

 

[Carl Emerson]

Well the way I see it is that with the giving of the Law came blessings and curses.

As God's desire is for us to be loved, He has highlighted behaviours that we need to align with for our own good. He knows what is best for us - it is not about punishment but rather about Love and good advice and the blessing that comes with it.

However, Israel failed to heed this advice.

Yet within the Law was a standard never met except by the One who gave it.

So relationship trumps rules and Love is the Goal.

Against Love there is no Law.

 

[A_Thinker]

I suggest the Law in this regard did not do as well as Jesus did in person.

Going by the failure of the Jews to come to faith via the Law something much greater had to be done.

The Jews couldn't come to faith by the Law. The Law prepared the Jews (who comprised the first believers) ... to understand their need for the Grace brought by Jesus.

Hebrews 10:1 The Law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.

Galatians 3

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

[A_Thinker]

Well the way I see it is that with the giving of the Law came blessings and curses.

It is explicit ...

Deuteronomy 28

1 If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. 2 All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God:

3 You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country.
...
15 However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:

16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.
...

So relationship trumps rules and Love is the Goal.

Against Love there is no Law.

Absolutely ...
1 Corinthians 13

1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
...
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It is explicit ...

Deuteronomy 28

1 If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. 2 All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God:

3 You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country.
...
15 However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:

16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.
...

Absolutely ...
1 Corinthians 13

1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
...
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

So we agree - then the understanding of Jesus referring to compassion and sacrifice is better understood as referring to Love and Law.

 

[SkyWriting]

We are told there is no Law against Love.

Who is being told, by whom? In what context?

 

[SkyWriting]

We are told that if we knew the difference between compassion and sacrifice, we would not have condemned the innocent.

About what?

 

[A_Thinker]

So we agree - then the understanding of Jesus referring to compassion and sacrifice is better understood as referring to Love and Law.

Yes ... I believe so ...

 

[A_Thinker]

Who is being told, by whom? In what context?

The fairly new believers in the recently constituted church founded by Paul in Corinth ... are being addressed by Paul in a letter.

Paul, in an explanation regarding the gifts of the Spirit, ... makes a case for LOVE being the greatest gift of all ... and the basis for all true Godliness ...

 

[Carl Emerson]

Who is being told, by whom? In what context?

Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

 

[Carl Emerson]

About what?

Matthew 12:7
But if you had known what this means: ‘I desire compassion, rather than sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent.

Explained previously in Matt 9

“Why is your Teacher eating with the tax collectors and sinners?” 12 But when Jesus heard this, He said, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick. 13 Now go and learn what this means: ‘I desire compassion, rather than sacrifice,’ for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

 

[SkyWriting]

We are told that if we knew the difference between compassion and sacrifice, we would not have condemned the innocent.

Jesus and the Jews.