What is the meaning of your life?

[LogosRhema]

They come from the self-assuredness and narcissism of youth. They will pass.

I had to smile as I read this post of yours because it reminded me of myself at your age (though without the God belief, of course). I’m guessing several others here also saw shades of their youth in your words.

Really? Then why is it that I'm told all of those things by many people, my age and older. I'm not much for pounding my chest, pride's a downfall for men. About the only thing I let myself be "proud" of, if that's the right word, is after next semester I'll be 11 classes away from my B.S. Mechanical Engineering. I think I am more excited than proud lol

I won't let you look down on me and disregard me because I'm young.

It must be easy to disregard anything contrary to your nonbelief, have you considered anything anyone is saying? Or are you looking for every and any way to disregard things? I've seen you say the straw man argument. I find it a weak decoy to disregard any parallels people may make.

If you want to know why we are Christians, its like food. I can tell you about the taste, if its good or bad, but until you taste it... how will you ever know for yourself?

If I'm curious enough about something, yeah I will ask questions, but eventually I'll just try it out for myself. Really its the basis of forming your own opinions rather than following others.

Have you ever, honestly, sat down and studied the Bible without bias and even as an athiest put its principles at work in your life?

 

[chosenpath]

Hardly. I just see no reason to believe something that has zero sound, tested evidence supporting it.


Right… But this wishing for an eternal life has nothing to do with the fear of death, right?

Imagine this, especially in what is happening in the world today.
You lose your job and are pounding the pavement looking for work.
Your savings have depleted and your home is about to go into foreclosure.
Your family could be homeless out on the street the next day. You call the State for emergency assistance but their funds are exhausted because many other people are in the same perdicament. Then you get a job interview. Your families whole livelihood hangs in the balance of you getting this job. You go to the interview and wait patiently for word on whether you get the job or not. Finally the company contacts you and apologizes because they found someone with better qualifications. This happens over and over again. You finally find out there is something in your past work history that is causing the problem and because you did not rectify it your chances of employment are being hindered. Can you tell me honestly you would not be fearful.

This is the only fear I have of death that I have not pleased Jehovah in serving him and following his commands. When I come before him after death I want to be written in his book as acceptable.

Proverbs 11:7
When a wicked man dies, [his] expectation will perish, And the hope of the unjust perishes.

Titus 3:8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men. But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless.

 

[GoodNewsJim]

I’m sorry, but how is the giving “sacrificial” when one receives a reward for it?

Ok, when you say this, I can tell you don't understand what I was saying.

So I'll say it again.

One who is weak faith does not fully consider the eternal consequences of one's actions.

One who is strong in faith cares mostly for what it is going to be like in Heaven.

I'll show you an example:

There are two men. Both have identical economic status.
The one who is weak in faith says to himself,"I'll keep my money for myself. I have things that I could buy on Earth that could make me happy."
The one who is strong in faith says to himself,"I'll look to helping the poor and sick with my money. There is nothing on Earth that could make me happy compared to an eternal reward and serving God."

The sacrifice being made is putting aside Earthly possessions. If you personally don't think this is a sacrifice and that it doesn't take someone strong in faith to do then that is amazingly good! Be aggressive in your giving to the poor because you know that you will receive eternal reward.

 

[3sigma]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Christians are not "superior" to atheists in anything.

Okay. I must remember this the next time a Christian says that atheists are incapable to loving their families with the quality of love that Christian possess.

A Christian, through the auspices of the indwelling Holy Spirit, can provide a QUALITY of Love--AGAPE--which, for obvious reasons, it not available to atheists…

Therefore, without God, the fullness of Love would be an impossibility.

Or when a Christian says that atheists are incapable of seeing things that Christians can see. In other words, atheists possess a handicap that Christians do not.

It is kind of like a blindman finding a sunset hard to understand. However, the blind man is powerless to change his handicap; you are not.

Or when a Christian says that atheists don’t value human life.

I really think that atheists have no fundamental reason to value human life. I think valuing all human life is inconsistent with naturalistic philosophy.

Or when a Christian says that atheists cannot overcome a desire for money.

A man with weak faith cannot get over his own desire for money.

In future, I’ll try to remember that Christians don’t feel superior to atheists in any way.

This is not a plausible explanation given that a belief in something that is untrue and/or unreal will only get you by for a little while, and eventually reliance on it proves to be without foundation because it fails to deliver the goods.

And yet the continued survival of belief in astrology, homeopathy, faith healing, reiki, acupuncture, iridology, reflexology and a range of pseudoscientific nonsense indicates that there are plenty of insecure people in the world who are credulous enough to believe all manner of nonsense if it provides them with hope and allays their fears. We actually have plenty of credible evidence that many people are insecure and credulous. Has anyone ever produced any credible evidence that your God exists?

A more plausible explanation for atheism's existence in the face of Christianity's Truth and Power to transform lives through the auspices of the indwelling Holy Spirit is that the millions have been willing to surrender to the Truth and have thus discovered the Truth, while atheists, in their need to play God themselves, cannot bring themselves to surrender the "power of choice" they see themselves as possessing--in spite of the havoc reaped as a result.

Oh please. Don’t you think you are being just a little hyperbolic here? The most plausible explanation for atheism is that some people don’t leap to unjustified conclusions and actually want to see some sound, objective evidence before they believe apparent nonsense.

 

[3sigma]

I won't let you look down on me and disregard me because I'm young.

I’m not looking down on you. I said I see some of myself at your age in your words. I think that people in their early twenties—particularly intelligent people—tend to be a little too self-assured. You will hear many older people say that the older they become, the more they become aware of how much they don’t know. I also think that the young are somewhat narcissistic because they usually have no dependents. It isn’t a put down. I think most people go through this.

It must be easy to disregard anything contrary to your nonbelief, have you considered anything anyone is saying? Or are you looking for every and any way to disregard things? I've seen you say the straw man argument. I find it a weak decoy to disregard any parallels people may make.

How many times do I have to say this? I will consider anything that is supported by at least some sound, objective evidence. I will not just believe something that has absolutely no sound, objective evidence supporting it. If you want me to consider something then produce some sound, objective evidence to support it. Don’t give me anecdotes, personal testimony, subjective feelings or myths. Give me something credible, verified and well founded.

What straw man argument have I employed?

If you want to know why we are Christians, its like food. I can tell you about the taste, if its good or bad, but until you taste it... how will you ever know for yourself?

Please resist the temptation to use analogies as arguments. Produce some credible, verified evidence if you want me to consider your arguments.

Have you ever, honestly, sat down and studied the Bible without bias and even as an athiest put its principles at work in your life?

Yes, I have studied the Bible and it does contain some principles by which I live my life—the Golden Rule, for instance—but these aren’t unique to the Bible and I was living my life by them long before I studied the Bible. Unfortunately, the Bible also contains a good deal of intolerance, cruelty and violence that some Christians take to heart. There is also a fair amount of utter nonsense completely unsupported by any credible evidence.

 

[3sigma]

This is the only fear I have of death that I have not pleased Jehovah in serving him and following his commands. When I come before him after death I want to be written in his book as acceptable.

Imagine there is no afterlife. Imagine that when you die, that’s it; you simply stop. All your knowledge, your experience, your memories and your awareness just disappear. You simply cease to be. If that were the case, how would it make you feel right now knowing that when you die there is nothing?

 

[3sigma]

The one who is weak in faith says to himself,"I'll keep my money for myself. I have things that I could buy on Earth that could make me happy."
The one who is strong in faith says to himself,"I'll look to helping the poor and sick with my money. There is nothing on Earth that could make me happy compared to an eternal reward and serving God."

How about the atheist who donates to charities knowing that there will be no eternal reward in compensation? Isn’t that a greater sacrifice than giving up something now, but knowing that you will be rewarded for it later?

 

[ephraimanesti]

How about the atheist who donates to charities knowing that there will be no eternal reward in compensation? Isn’t that a greater sacrifice than giving up something now, but knowing that you will be rewarded for it later?

The atheist's reward, although certainly far from eternal, is that they feel, for a few fleeting moments, that they are a "good person." It is also, for the well-to-do, often good P.R. when newspapers announce their "generous gift," and a helpful exemption when tax time rolls around. In any event, it is a small, fleeting payoff for a quickly written check.

Less cynically, Christians claim no monopoly on "goodness," and often evolved animals--as atheists consider themselves--render help to one another are part of a refined "herd instinct." However, to have any eternal meaning, help rendered to others must be done in recognition that we are all brothers and sisters of the same Loving Creator; in recognition of the image of Christ in them; and in recognition of the fact that Loving service rendered to others is, in fact, service rendered directly to God Himself as per Matthew 25:31-46.

Are you aware of any atheist founded and operated food/clothing banks, orphanages, hospitals, halfway houses, homeless shelters, soup kitchens, etc. i'm not.

A BROTHER/FRIEND/AND BOND-SLAVE OF CHRIST,
ephraim

 

[3sigma]

Are you aware of any atheist founded and operated food/clothing banks, orphanages, hospitals, halfway houses, homeless shelters, soup kitchens, etc. i'm not.

One of the world’s largest private foundations with a $38 billion endowment is the Gates Foundation. It is dedicated to providing global healthcare, improving education and ending poverty. It was founded by an atheist who has now left his job to devote more of his time to working with the foundation.

 

[chosenpath]

Imagine there is no afterlife. Imagine that when you die, that’s it; you simply stop. All your knowledge, your experience, your memories and your awareness just disappear. You simply cease to be. If that were the case, how would it make you feel right now knowing that when you die there is nothing?[/quote]


The answer is in your question. I have died unto my sins already and am reborn in Jesus Christ. I have taken off the old personality of the world and put on the full armor of God, therefore this world can offer me nothing.

1 John 5:4
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our* faith.



You do however share a philosophy.


Job 1:21
And he said: "Naked I came from my mother's womb, And naked shall I return there. The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; Blessed be the name of the LORD."

Ecclesiastes 5:15
As he came from his mother's womb, naked shall he return, To go as he came; And he shall take nothing from his labor Which he may carry away in his hand.

Which again I will say to you do not be afraid to join the body of Christ!

 

[3sigma]

The answer is in your question. I have died unto my sins already and am reborn in Jesus Christ. I have taken off the old personality of the world and put on the full armor of God, therefore this world can offer me nothing.

No, you aren’t already dead. I’m talking about real death here not some make-believe, metaphorical death you may have concocted or been told. How would you feel right now if you knew that after you physically die there is nothing, it is the end of your life forever, you just cease to exist?

 

[ephraimanesti]

One of the world’s largest private foundations with a $38 billion endowment is the Gates Foundation. It is dedicated to providing global healthcare, improving education and ending poverty. It was founded by an atheist who has now left his job to devote more of his time to working with the foundation.

That's 1.

Throughout the history of this country, millionaires--and now billionaires--such as the Rockefellers, the Astors, the Morgans, the Vanderbilt, etc.--have set up "charatible trusts" as both tax write-offs and as ways to assuage their consciences regarding what they did to others to "earn" their fortunes in the cutthroat world of high finances.

Within the above parameters, i think Bill Gates is well-meaning and probably doing a lot of good. However, Bill Gates, incidentially, is not an atheist.

On the other hand, Larry Flynt--the world famous pornographer and atheist spokesperson is donating a few of his millions to removing tax credits for charitable contributions. Don't know how he feels about Bill's work.

Giving to worthy causes by billionaires is nice and i am sure that good is done. However, our Lord was more impressed with the widow's mite (worth less than a penny) than the treasures tossed out by the rich to whom they had little or no meaning and entailed no Loving self-sacrifice.(Mark 12:41-44)

A BROTHER/FRIEND/BOND-SLAVE OF CHRIST,
ephraim

 

[ephraimanesti]

Okay. I must remember this the next time a Christian says that atheists are incapable to loving their families with the quality of love that Christian possess.

Good plan! Die, strawman, die!

Or when a Christian says that atheists are incapable of seeing things that Christians can see. In other words, atheists possess a handicap that Christians do not.

Yes--Spiritual blindness.

Or when a Christian says that atheists don’t value human life.

As evidenced by Margaret Sanger's--that atheistic icon's--hard work for abortion, forced sterilization, and racist eugenics--especially among blacks, the poor, and other social "undesirables"--perhaps? Or perhaps it was the high praise her work got from Adolf Hitler.

Or when a Christian says that atheists cannot overcome a desire for money.

The reference was to people with "weak faith." Atheists have no faith--weak or otherwise--so i don't think you should take that one personally.

In future, I’ll try to remember that Christians don’t feel superior to atheists in any way.

In reality, a Christian who has REALLY met their Lord face to face and REALLY understands His Love would feel just the opposite. We have a God who Loves believers and unbelievers just exactly the same--AND WE ARE CALLED UPON TO DO LIKEWISE.

Has anyone ever produced any credible evidence that your God exists?

YES--God has produced a tremendous amount of "credible evidence" that He exists dating back to the Garden. Problem being, of course, "credible evidence" to a Truth seeker differs dramatically from what constitutes "credible evidence" in the eyes of the willfully blind. Ruling out evidence that does not jibe with one's desired outcome can keep one blind and safe from that pesky Light, but it doesn't lead anywhere anyone would really want to be.

The most plausible explanation for atheism is that some people don’t leap to unjustified conclusions and actually want to see some sound, objective evidence before they believe apparent nonsense.

NO--the most plausible explanation for atheism is the desire of some to be their own "god" without any outside interference--to make up their own rules, to formulate their own worldview, and to do whatever they choose without any "higher power" trying to steer them away from self-destruction.

A BROTHER/FRIEND/BOND-SLAVE OF CHRIST,
ephraim

 

[GoodNewsJim]

How about the atheist who donates to charities knowing that there will be no eternal reward in compensation? Isn’t that a greater sacrifice than giving up something now, but knowing that you will be rewarded for it later?

Once again, I need remind you that I am not talking about atheists. That has nothing to do with what I was talking about. But if you really want to know who is more in the right, that is for God to decide, not me.

I was making the point that sacrificial giving is easier for someone who is strong in faith. I think I gave an easy to understand example in my post. Did you understand it?

 

[chosenpath]

No, you aren’t already dead. I’m talking about real death here not some make-believe, metaphorical death you may have concocted or been told. How would you feel right now if you knew that after you physically die there is nothing, it is the end of your life forever, you just cease to exist?

Why should I believe you? Aren't you concocting or telling me right now
after you physically die there is nothing. You must be convinced of this or you wouldn't be so redundant. Where is you proof?

I've given you my proof through holy scripture. I'm sorry if that is not adequate enough for you. Or are you still searching for the ark of the covenant ?
Mark 4:22
For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light.

Revelations 11:19, 21:22
Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.


.

 

[3sigma]

That's 1.

Warren Buffett is a foundation trustee who has pledged most of his fortune to the foundation. He also doesn’t believe in God or an afterlife.

However, Bill Gates, incidentially, is not an atheist.

Does Bill Gates believe there is a God or an afterlife? At most, you could say that Bill Gates is agnostic, but the point here is that neither Bill Gates nor Warren Buffett is donating his time and money to charity with the expectation of some reward in an afterlife.

 

[3sigma]

Yes--Spiritual blindness.

And, of course, that wouldn’t make atheists inferior to Christians in any way.

Or perhaps it was the high praise her work got from Adolf Hitler.

Great, here we have yet another attempt to link atheists to the Nazis.

The reference was to people with "weak faith." Atheists have no faith--weak or otherwise--so i don't think you should take that one personally.

Exactly. Who is of weaker faith than atheists?

In reality, a Christian who has REALLY met their Lord face to face and REALLY understands His Love would feel just the opposite.

Right… No True Christian would feel superior to atheists.

Ruling out evidence that does not jibe with one's desired outcome can keep one blind and safe from that pesky Light, but it doesn't lead anywhere anyone would really want to be.

It is more a case of ruling out evidence that doesn’t jibe with reality.

NO--the most plausible explanation for atheism is the desire of some to be their own "god" without any outside interference--to make up their own rules, to formulate their own worldview, and to do whatever they choose without any "higher power" trying to steer them away from self-destruction.

I’m an atheist so do you think that I have some desire to be my own God and make up my own rules (presumably ignoring the rules of society)? I’d like to know how it is you think you know my desires. I don’t see anything wrong with formulating one’s own worldview. Isn’t that what you and everyone else does anyway? Do you think I’m self-destructive? I’d really like to know how it is you think you know so much about my life.

 

[3sigma]

Why should I believe you? Aren't you concocting or telling me right now
after you physically die there is nothing. You must be convinced of this or you wouldn't be so redundant. Where is you proof?

I asked how would you feel right now if you knew that after you physically die there is nothing, it is the end of your life forever, you just cease to exist? It is a hypothetical question that asks you only to imagine that when you physically die it is the end of your life forever. Can’t you bring yourself even to imagine it? I’ve been trying to determine whether your God belief is in part the result of a fear of death, but it seems I already have my answer. You appear to be unwilling even to imagine that your life could end forever when you physically die.

 

[ephraimanesti]

And, of course, that wouldn’t make atheists inferior to Christians in any way.

MY BROTHER,

i am a caregiver in a Group Home for developmentally challenged adults. They, as is true with spiritually-challenged atheists--are NOT in any way inferior to anyone--especially in God's eyes.

Trust me on this.

Great, here we have yet another attempt to link atheists to the Nazis.

Actually, the Nazis were pagans which is a teeny-tiny step above atheism, but perhaps the shoe fits. On the other hand, atheists, of course, were the driving force behind the wonderful "workers' paradises" of Soviet Russia and Communist China, etc. Not a very enviable legacy and certainly not one which would lead me to consider voting for an atheist.

Exactly. Who is of weaker faith than atheists?

Atheists have no faith--weak or otherwise. The Post was referring to "christians" who were not able to honestly and totally embrace the Faith due to greed.

Right… No True Christian would feel superior to atheists.

That is correct. The penalty for doing so is unthinkable given Father's Love for ALL His children--even the prodigals (or perhaps especial the prodigals.)

It is more a case of ruling out evidence that doesn’t jibe with reality.

It certainly jibes with the reality of millions--a vast majority over atheists throughout history, as i am sure you know.

It is your "reality" which is faulty--not the Evidence.

I’m an atheist so do you think that I have some desire to be my own God and make up my own rules (presumably ignoring the rules of society)?

You forget, that being a part of what once was a Judeo-Christian culture, our society's laws and mores are Biblically based. So, assuming you obey the laws of the land, you remain at least marginally in touch with God's will in many areas--although these areas are getting fewer and fewer as we speak.

I’d like to know how it is you think you know my desires. I don’t see anything wrong with formulating one’s own worldview. Isn’t that what you and everyone else does anyway?

NO--Christians accept the worldview of the world's Creator and think and act accordingly.

Do you think I’m self-destructive?

NO, by seeing oneself as merely an evolved animal calls into question the existence of a real "self" to injure. No animals i have ever heard of are suicidal or auto-injurious.

However, by turning your back on your Creator and spurning His great Love for you, you are acting in a SPIRITUALLY self-destructive manner by denying yourself the opportunity at a REAL Life--beyond your wildest dreams.

I’d really like to know how it is you think you know so much about my life.

The same way you know so much about the lives of Christians: by talking and listening--more of the latter than the former.

A BROTHER/FRIEND/BOND-SLAVE OF CHRIST,
ephraim

 

[ephraimanesti]

Warren Buffett is a foundation trustee who has pledged most of his fortune to the foundation. He also doesn’t believe in God or an afterlife.


Does Bill Gates believe there is a God or an afterlife? At most, you could say that Bill Gates is agnostic, but the point here is that neither Bill Gates nor Warren Buffett is donating his time and money to charity with the expectation of some reward in an afterlife.

NO--they get it here and now: Are tax write-offs, publicity, public acclamations, notoriety, and the extirpation of guilt over cut-throat business practices not a pretty fair pay-off in materialistic terms for dispersing--with trumpets blaring (Matthew 6:2)--what amounts to a handful of pocket change? They indeed have their reward!

A BROTHER/FRIEND/BOND-SLAVE OF CHRIST,
ephraim