What is the meaning of Total Depravity?

[fhansen]

Just as they won't be saved without faith. . .(Eph 2:8-9).

Yes, and we can't be holy without faith because faith means nearness to God.

This is to be grafted into the Vine, apart from whom we can do nothing, John. 15:5. And this union, which itself is the essence of man's righteous, is a personal union, not just a declared or legal status.

 

[Clare73]

Yes, and we can't be holy without faith because faith means nearness to God.

We can't be anything salvific without faith. . .remission of sin, forgiveness, justification, imputed righteousness of Christ, sanctification, glorification. . .

 

[fhansen]

We can't be anything salvific without faith. . .remission of sin, forgiveness, justification, imputed righteousness of Christ, sanctification, glorification. . .

Agreed, and the point is that the mere act of believing does not save one but the fact of what faith means, what it results in, is what saves us. And the basis is nearness to God, connection to the Vine who is life itself. Abd we can walk away from that relationship and the grace it affords as easily as we once entered it

 

[Clare73]

Agreed, and the point is that the mere act of believing does not save one but the fact of what faith means, what it results in, is what saves us.

Saving faith means belief in and trust on the person and atoning work of Jesus Christ (Ro 3:25) for the remission of one's sin.

Faith results in remission of sin, forgiveness, justification, imputed righteousness of Christ, sanctification (through obedience in the Holy Spirit, Ro 6:16, 19), glorification. . .

 

[fhansen]

Saving faith means belief in and trust on the person and atoning work of Jesus Christ (Ro 3:25) for the remission of one's sin.

Faith results in remission of sin, forgiveness, justification, imputed righteousness of Christ, sanctification (through obedience in the Holy Spirit, Ro 6:16, 19), glorification. . .

It's broader than that. Faith means reconcilation with God, It's to say yes to Him, to appropriate the reconciliation accomplished by His Son and to live in that reconciled state, now bound to the Vine, a state of justice or righteousness in and of itself. And, again, that's why Abraham's faith pleased God so much. To know and believe in Jesus is to know and believe in God. And that's the whole reason Jesus came, to save man from the destructive and unjust alienation from God that Adam accomplished.

"Through Him you believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and glorified Him, and so your faith and hope are in God." 1 Pet 1:21

To be saved isn't just to believe in some proposed facts; it's to enter and remain in union with God.

 

[Clare73]

It's broader than that. Faith means reconcilation with God, It's to say yes to Him, to appropriate the reconciliation accomplished by His Son and to live in that reconciled state, now bound to the Vine, a state of justice or righteousness in and of itself. And, again, that's why Abraham's faith pleased God so much. To know and believe in Jesus is to know and believe in God. And that's the whole reason Jesus came, to save man from the destructive and unjust alienation from God that Adam accomplished.

"Through Him you believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and glorified Him, and so your faith and hope are in God." 1 Pet 1:21

To be saved isn't just to believe in some proposed facts; it's to enter and remain in union with God.

Which is what sanctification and glorification are.

 

[fhansen]

Which is what sanctification and glorification are.

And justification: union with God is the whole enchilda- from beginning to end.

 

[Clare73]

And justification: union with God is the whole enchilda- from beginning to end.

To which we must add imputed righteousness of Christ (Ro 1:17, Php 3:9), just as Adam's sin was imputed to us (Ro 5:17, 18-19).

 

[fhansen]

To which we must add imputed righteousness of Christ (Ro 1:17, Php 3:9), just as Adam's sin was imputed to us

That's fine, as long as we don't simultaneously dismiss the personal righteousnss given to us then (Ro 1:17, Php 3:9), and that Adam took away from us (Ro 5:17, 18-19). .

 

[Clare73]

That's fine, as long as we don't simultaneously dismiss the personal righteousnss given to us then (Ro 1:17, Php 3:9), and
that Adam took away from us (Ro 5:17, 18-19). .

We never got to have any righteousness when we were born.

All those of Adam are born with the imputed sin of Adam (Ro 5:14, 17, 18-19), which is the pattern (Ro 5:14) for the imputed righteousness of Christ to those of Christ (Ro 5:18-19, Php 3:9).

The credited (imputed) righteousness of Ro 1:7, Php 3:9 is the righteousness of Christ imputed to us, not our own righteousness.

 

[fhansen]

We never got to have any righteousness when we were born.

We do when we're born again, made new creations, etc.

 

[Clare73]

We do when we're born again, made new creations, etc.

Adam did not take away Ro 1:17, Php 3:9 (post #89).

 

[fhansen]

Adam did not take it away Ro 1:17, Php 3:9.

Of course he did, and that's basic to Christianity. There's a reason why all people sin now and it's because we lost the original righteousness or holiness that is intrinsic to union with God. That's why sin flourished right after the Fall. Cain slew Abel, etc, which would have been totally foreign, impossible, unheard of, beforehand. And faith is the reestablishment of that union.

 

[Clare73]

Of course he did, and that's basic to Christianity. There's a reason why all people sin now and it's because we lost the original righteousness or holiness that is intrinsic to union with God.

See post #90, address the Scriptures there.